Streetcar Article

[tufsu1]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444900304577579360844409848.html?goback=%2Egde_1178607_member_147599510

[fieldafm]

Not bad company to keep...

[Adam W]

I take exception to the following qote:

"Putting 125-year-old technology into modern cities is going to create more congestion, dangerous situations for pedestrians and divert taxpayers' money from transit that people really need to transit that is silly," Mr. O'Toole said.

The age of the technology is irrelevant (not to mention that, from what I've seen, many new streetcars are actually quite modern). But what really confuses me is his contention that streetcars would create more congestion and create dangerous situations for pedestrians.

I can't see congestion increasing. At least not appreciably, even if no one rides the damn thing. And I can't see the streetcar being any more dangerous than buses, which is what O'Toole WAS advocating.

Whether or not streetcars count as "transit that is silly" is a matter of personal opinion.

I also thought it worth pointing out that the article mentions that the streetcars tend to be single cars, etc but shows a picture of a very modern Portland streetcar that appears to be articulated.

I can see the concerns about building a streetcar in isolation or as a standalone project, but I think it makes perfect sense when considered as part of a transit plan or strategy. If you had rail that brought workers and shoppers into town, they could then navigate downtown via streetcar.

Anyway, just my two cents. Maybe it just got my hackles up because O'Toole is a Cato Institute d-bag.

[fsujax]

There needs to be a grassroots movement in Jax to advocate for streetcars. A special taxing district wouldn't hurt either. Riverside to Downtown, Springfield could easily support streetcars.

[Jason]

^  The hard part is dealing with the insanely uninformed and ignorants citizens such as Mr. O'Toole quoted above.  Sadly, we have a LOT of similar citizens in NE Florida.

[fsujax]

^^no doubt.

[thelakelander]

It's interesting that the article hits Tampa and Little Rock negatively from a ridership standpoint while praising Portland's streetcar for stimulating economic development.  Whatever you want to say about Tampa and Little Rock's route planning and operation of their streetcars for tourist instead of connecting urban neighborhoods, they both have spurred TOD.  In Tampa, they've witnessed over $1 billion in economic development in former long time distressed and blighted areas.  Overall, the ROI of the TECO Line to the Tampa taxpayer has been a plus.

[thelakelander]

^  The hard part is dealing with the insanely uninformed and ignorants citizens such as Mr. O'Toole quoted above.  Sadly, we have a LOT of similar citizens in NE Florida.

I don't think O'Toole is ignorant. He's being paid handsomely to promote his position.  Now the people who listen to him without doing their own homework on what he claims.......

[mtraininjax]

Overall, the ROI of the TECO Line to the Tampa taxpayer has been a plus.

Lake - How far does this line run and what areas are similar to that in Jacksonville?

[dougskiles]

There needs to be a grassroots movement in Jax to advocate for streetcars. A special taxing district wouldn't hurt either. Riverside to Downtown, Springfield could easily support streetcars.

Let's make a deal.  I will work on the grassroots movement for a streetcar system that connects Springfield to Downtown (with a Skyway connection at the FCCJ Skyway/Bus terminal), if you will do the same to get JTA to revise the BRT design so that it doesn't compete with the Skyway and this potential streetcar route.

I haven't talked to ANYONE outside of JTA that likes the BRT route.

[thelakelander]

Tampa's TECO Line runs from the Tampa Convention Center to Ybor City.  Since it opened, its help spur over a billion dollars in economic infill development in the Channel District.  However, the route fails to hit the heart of downtown Tampa, the campus of University of Tampa, Hyde Park, SoHo, Tampa Heights, etc.  Thus, ridership is limited to the Channel District and tourist attractions and hotels around Ybor and the cruise terminal.

[Noone]

It's interesting that the article hits Tampa and Little Rock negatively from a ridership standpoint while praising Portland's streetcar for stimulating economic development.  Whatever you want to say about Tampa and Little Rock's route planning and operation of their streetcars for tourist instead of connecting urban neighborhoods, they both have spurred TOD.  In Tampa, they've witnessed over $1 billion in economic development in former long time distressed and blighted areas.  Overall, the ROI of the TECO Line to the Tampa taxpayer has been a plus.

The Tampa reference was  a huge disturbing comparison.

[thelakelander]

Here's images of Little Rock.  Development has boomed along its little line as well.


image by Ken Ziegenbein at www.trainweather.com/043005nighttrolley.html


image by Cratus at www.flickr.com


image by Ken Ziegenbein at www.railwaypreservation.com/vintagetrolley/littlerock.htm

If anything, the Little Rock, Portland and Tampa lines tell me the same thing.  These things do help generate urban infill development and they get more ridership when they are designed to connect urban neighborhoods instead of being small loops that never leave downtown.  Streetcar to Riverside or Springfield with downtown in the middle anyone?

[Adam W]

"These things to help generate urban infill development and they get more ridership when they are designed to connect urban neighborhoods instead of being small loops that never leave downtown.  Streetcar to Riverside or Springfield with downtown in the middle anyone?"

+1000000

[tufsu1]

^ exactly....streetcar transit isn't going to do much in terms of regional travel or congestion relief....but it can spur economic development and more walkable communities.