Whats going on in Five Points?

[Ocklawaha]

Okay, first of all Fuel closed?No it didn't.  SO that right there tells everyone how informed you are and how much credence we should give anything you write.
Secondly, Wow, I didn't realize that the sole reason 5 Points was successful back in the 80s/90s was because of you and how cool everything you did was. That is amazing. Can I touch you?

Weee! Now this is funny!

First of all, I was there on-and-off through the 50's-60's-70's-80's, so I've seen it all change.

Secondly, As an "Old Hippie" academic type, I understand this is an open discussion THINK TANK site. As far as your request for a touch, (it all depends on where you plan to do this). Remember I still have High Friends in Places!

Smile more, it's almost 4:20

Ocklawaha

[second_pancake]

Gee, I missed a lot, lol.

Btw, here's something that's not a rumor.  Time Warp is not in Five Points anymore as of Friday.  As was published in the paper, Wendi was evicted   Damn shame.  Result of lower retail sales in the last 2 quarters?  Result of rent hikes in 5-points?  Result of poor financial planning?  Don't know.  Maybe all of the above for all I know.  But, it really is a shame because the only other vintage store sells nothing but cowboy boots and ugly 80's crap, half of which I still have in a box in my attic.  Anywho...

Here is one common theme in the way Jax thinks is the best way to draw business: They consistently put the cart before the horse.  In 5-points, they have the belief that if they pretty-up some buildings, build retail strips, and increase the rent, that it will someone draw better and more upscale businesses to the area.  Wrong.  National retail chains want places where there is not only a demand for their product but has a proven retail record as well as a large popluation of the type of customer they're looking for.  This, my friends, is why you saw the strip mall portion of Margaret street fill in when the Publix was completed.  Publix has a proven record, catering to middle to upper class customers looking for a good product that won't bust their wallet.  They (national chains) could've just as easily opened right on Park, but they wouldn't have generated the business. 

There is also something unique to 5-points in regard to the existing, and longtime business owners.  The majority of them don't care about turning a dollar.  They are not willing to participate in projects to clean-up common areas, contribute to activities to draw new customers, or collaborate with one another coming up with ideas to help generate business. There used to be a beat-cop that was hired by the 'merchant's association' that would walk/ride the area, but when the one to two people who were paying for the services, could no longer support it on their own, he was gone.  There were no Christmas lights in the area along Park at Christmas time this past year because no one wanted to take the time or spend the money to make the place look pretty and festive to draw crowds. They are completely indifferent.  Like I said, this isn't everyone, but a great majority of them.  How many of you knew about First Fridays in 5-Points?  I'm in that part of town almost every single day.  I frequent the businesses and restaurants as if I were still a Riverside resident, and I only found out about it a month ago...by accident it seems as the small advertising card was pushed to the backside of the register completely out of view for any customers at this particular store.  When I inquired about it, I was greeted with a roll of the eyes and an, "oh, yeah...that's just some thing that some one came up with."

Bottom-line, some people in that area are just going to have to be more open to change and the addition of businesses that want to make a profit and bring a more diverse group of people into the area (and in this case that means yuppies).  They need to take a look down the street at Margaret, and take a hint at what's going on.  No, that doesn't mean they have to compromise who they are, just be a little smarter about it.  Hell, they could even take a queue from King and Park, which has 2 new restaurants opening here shortly as well as the addition of City Cycle (moved from 5-points), which still has the bohemian feel to it, but values customers and markets to people who are willing to come in and actually pay for something.

Oh, and as far as Ragland's....love the food, but the decor and the feel of the place is horrible. I'm glad they've recognized this and are doing something about it.  I wish they would've hired a professional to help though, or maybe he/she knows a thing about interior design?  Hope so.  Until then, I'll just keep getting my burgers to-go to keep from feeling like I'm eating in my Grandmother's basement, lol

[thelakelander]

Hell, they could even take a queue from King and Park, which has 2 new restaurants opening here shortly as well as the addition of City Cycle

What are the two new restaurants and where, on the strip, will they be located?

[second_pancake]

Hell, they could even take a queue from King and Park, which has 2 new restaurants opening here shortly as well as the addition of City Cycle

What are the two new restaurants and where, on the strip, will they be located?

They are directly on the strip in the Whiteway building.  One is ready to open this week I believe...dont' quote me on that, and is an Italian restaurant.  By the looks of the interior, it's going to be more of a $$-$$$ place.  The other restaurant is next to the Italian place and is a sushi restaurant.  I know, I know, there are lots of them in Riverside, but for the people who live closer to King and Park, this is great.  Now, they can walk to get sushi instead of driving or riding their bikes down to Margaret.  I want to say both restaurants occupy the space that was previously occupied by Curves.  I'm not sure of the names.  I'll have to call my people and have them walk over there and take a look-see

[john e. seven]

there are some very interesting things going on in this thread.

yes, unfortunately time warp did close.  the eviction went down a week ago, yet it had to come to the landlords having the locks changed.  wendy and phil were apparently in complete denial that they were really getting kicked out.   this was not the first time that they had been behind on rent.  a source said that she was constantly late on rent and often got behind a month or two...  this had been a long time coming!  i know for a fact that she still had a pretty decent rent since she had been there so long.  and to make matters worse, it was poorly merchandised and filthy. 

as for the mugging, it's so hard to know what to believe.  also, why would she not dipute the $20,000 worth of charges?  i'm not sure what bank she has but you can fight fraudulent charges.  and it's sad to say, but the JSO has no record of a mugging in the riverside publix parking lot the night of wendys incident. 

while i think wendy is a very sweet person, she also has a really hard time telling the truth and tends to embellish quite a bit.  the article that shelton wrote in folio about her a few weeks back was disgustingly one sided and full of bull.  to start with, if wendy would be open consistent normal business hours instead of putting daily notes on her door and leaving for hours on end.   i don't think you build clientèle by leaving "call me if you need something and i'll come back." signs for potential customers.  so basically, it was great while it lasted but she had been on a downward spiral for a while. 

now, on to first fridays.  this event has been going on since october but was on hiatus during january and february.  it's launch in october was doomed from bad rains and band cancellations.  there have been other bumps in the road, but for march there are lots of exciting events going on for first friday.  art installations, bands food and hopefully a locally sponsored FREE (it has been $5 w/o a business sponsorship) movie will be shown in the theater.  lets just remember, it took art walk a good 2 years to really get going like it is now.  the point of First Fridays in Five Points is to just offer a fun FREE activity for all! 

i also really think it would be great if springfield became it's own unique district but as of now, the rents aren't heap enough for jacksonville's cool counterclulture to afford.  the buildings are dilapidated commercial buildings offer no refuge from the rising rents in 5 points.  i'm just sick of the focus being on "5 points is so empty"...  blah blah blah...  it may not be at 100% capacity right now, but there are lots of people opening things with a fresh take on the area.  someone was scouting out a potential gallery housing mainly local artists works, in the former time warp spot.  NEST, a modern is set to open in march in 1/2 of the former URBANE unit.  a wall is currently being built to divide the units.  i heard there are talks that chew is looking to open a "chew express." not sure how true that is.  plus, there are lots of quality stores in the area right now that really are an assets to the community. 

moral of this post...  don't give up on 5 points...  there are lots of exciting things going on. 

[fpj]

There is also something unique to 5-points in regard to the existing, and longtime business owners.  The majority of them don't care about turning a dollar.  They are not willing to participate in projects to clean-up common areas, contribute to activities to draw new customers, or collaborate with one another coming up with ideas to help generate business.

Which are you talking about?  While there might be some that don't participate in events, I doubt the majority of the businesses in five points are owned by independently wealthy folk like on the other side of the river...

FPJ

[second_pancake]

There is also something unique to 5-points in regard to the existing, and longtime business owners.  The majority of them don't care about turning a dollar.  They are not willing to participate in projects to clean-up common areas, contribute to activities to draw new customers, or collaborate with one another coming up with ideas to help generate business.

Which are you talking about?  While there might be some that don't participate in events, I doubt the majority of the businesses in five points are owned by independently wealthy folk like on the other side of the river...

FPJ

You don't really expect me to name names?  I'm not saying they're "independently wealthy", I'm saying they don't care about making money.  Their needs are simple and they live simply.  I think that's a great philosophy, however, why have a store front if you're not going to do anything with it but be content with making just enough to pay for food?  Btw, I'm speaking specifically of Park St. between Post and Lomax.  Honestly, the feeling I've gotten is they're afraid of success and what it means for that area and themselves.  They dont' want to draw people from various walks of life or suburban areas because they'll spend money.  More money spent means more profit for them which in their minds equals more headache and more responsibility.

[fpj]

There is also something unique to 5-points in regard to the existing, and longtime business owners.  The majority of them don't care about turning a dollar.  They are not willing to participate in projects to clean-up common areas, contribute to activities to draw new customers, or collaborate with one another coming up with ideas to help generate business.

Which are you talking about?  While there might be some that don't participate in events, I doubt the majority of the businesses in five points are owned by independently wealthy folk like on the other side of the river...

FPJ

You don't really expect me to name names?  I'm not saying they're "independently wealthy", I'm saying they don't care about making money.  Their needs are simple and they live simply.  I think that's a great philosophy, however, why have a store front if you're not going to do anything with it but be content with making just enough to pay for food?  Btw, I'm speaking specifically of Park St. between Post and Lomax.  Honestly, the feeling I've gotten is they're afraid of success and what it means for that area and themselves.  They dont' want to draw people from various walks of life or suburban areas because they'll spend money.  More money spent means more profit for them which in their minds equals more headache and more responsibility.

There are a lot of "existing and longtime" business owners between Post and Lomax on Park that are doing everything they can to draw people from all walks of life to the block, so, actually, yes, I do expect you to name names.  Otherwise, this was just another one of those "they" posts that doesn't do anything but throw broad strokes about with no means of getting results.

FPJ

[second_pancake]

I can tell you those that are making an effort...Violet, City Cycle (they're moving though), and the new gift shop next to City Cycle, and Edge City.  Ragland's seems to want to make a change personally, which is good, but what I'm talking about is a collective effort between all merchants to take action by contributing time, money and resources.  When you have a business owner who pays for a street cleaner out of their own pocket to help vaccum up all the cigarette butts in teh area as well as install butt cans, and no one else even uses the thing or puts out the cans, that's called not contributing and being indifferent.  When you have a merchant to uses his/her only day off to put up Christmas lights around every single light post in the area for the holidays and no one is there to help despite him/her asking for it and then having to take them all down his/her self as well, that is also not contributing and/or being indifferent.  I could go on and on...I already mentioned the beat-cop.  We could also talk about the merchants giving handouts to the homeless and allowing them to hang out in front of their stores.  While that draws a crowd, it's not quite the crowd most business owners would want in front of their stores.  That's why I say I don't understand the mentality of "them".

[fpj]

I can tell you those that are making an effort...Violet, City Cycle (they're moving though), and the new gift shop next to City Cycle, and Edge City.  Ragland's seems to want to make a change personally, which is good, but what I'm talking about is a collective effort between all merchants to take action by contributing time, money and resources.  When you have a business owner who pays for a street cleaner out of their own pocket to help vaccum up all the cigarette butts in teh area as well as install butt cans, and no one else even uses the thing or puts out the cans, that's called not contributing and being indifferent.  When you have a merchant to uses his/her only day off to put up Christmas lights around every single light post in the area for the holidays and no one is there to help despite him/her asking for it and then having to take them all down his/her self as well, that is also not contributing and/or being indifferent.  I could go on and on...I already mentioned the beat-cop.  We could also talk about the merchants giving handouts to the homeless and allowing them to hang out in front of their stores.  While that draws a crowd, it's not quite the crowd most business owners would want in front of their stores.  That's why I say I don't understand the mentality of "them".

I've not seen any butt cans in ages, so I don't know when/if that happened recently, but regardless, from what I've seen, smokers are the same all over the Jax and you will see cigarette butts cast all over public places, especially now that more places are non-smoking and smokers now congregate outside the various entrances.  No amount of butt cans will ever change that behavior.  Dash outside, puff, flick, dash back inside.  Lather rinse repeat.

As for merchants giving handouts, I couldn't agree more.  "Don't feed the animals" comes politically incorrectly to mind:  if people didn't give the homeless money, they'd move on to better more fertile grounds, maybe further west into Avondale j/k.  With that in mind, however, if you talk with the merchants you praise above, you will find that some have in fact "hired" the homeless for the chores mentioned.

Also, it was a shame that Christmas lights weren't put up this past year at all, so I guess you were talking about some year prior.  I think this was probably the first year Tammie didn't decorate the blinking light but given her shop closing, I can understand.  It is nice seeing her up at Ragland's slinging hash like Flo though!

There is a big contrast between Park/King and Post/Park/Lomax.  I am sure Five Points wishes they had First Guarantee Bank as their merchants association benefactor, even though they were pretty much behind kicking the Art Bar out of the area. 

I remember an "Officer Mike" and the various cops that were outside Club Five in its heyday, but when was that merchant-paid beat cop you mentioned last on the block?

FPJ

[second_pancake]

I've not seen any butt cans in ages

Exactly.  The merchant I know paid for cans and brought it up at a merchant's meeting suggesting that the place would be a little cleaner if everyone put them outside their stores or at least in the general vicinity.  They scoffed at the idea which is why there was only ever one outside of anyone's store...my friend's store.

With that in mind, however, if you talk with the merchants you praise above, you will find that some have in fact "hired" the homeless for the chores mentioned.

I'm not praising anyone (except one in particular that for whom I'm biased I suppose), just saying that the stores I've mentioned at least have displayed somewhat of a business-owner mentality in that they appear to want to turn a profit. 

I'm actually surprised that the 5-points homeless people were willing to work, lol. Hmm, now that I think about it, it makes perfect sense why the merchants relate so well with the homeless there since neither is interested in working for a dollar

it was a shame that Christmas lights weren't put up this past year at all, so I guess you were talking about some year prior.

Yes, not '07, but in '06, my friend personally decorated all the lamp posts in 5-points with the help of one other person (whom he paid) that is NOT a business owner.  Since no one, again, was willing to help and the funds weren't available to pay someone to do it, nor was the time available...my friend is after all trying to run a business, it wasn't done.

when was that merchant-paid beat cop you mentioned last on the block?

About 2 years ago.  He'd circle the block and/or walk around a bit and chase off any loitering vagrants.  When my friend couldn't pay any longer, it stopped.  Last year, my friend was coming early to work and had a knife pulled on him while in the parking lot.  He was far enough away that he was able to mace the guy and get away.  He called the police and it took them over 30 minutes to get to the scene and take down his report. 

On another occasion, he came in to work around 4am to see several Jags players (who had just finished partying at an event held at the 5-points theatre), outside acting crazy and taking turns having sex with a woman on top of parked cars in complete public view.  Classy.

If the merchants don't care, why should anyone else?

[fpj]

On another occasion, he came in to work around 4am to see several Jags players (who had just finished partying at an event held at the 5-points theatre) outside acting crazy and taking turns having sex with a woman on top of parked cars in complete public view.  Classy.

And where was his camera phone?  A couple snaps of this and the Five Points Area Merchants Association would have been fully funded for decades 

FPJ

[second_pancake]

On another occasion, he came in to work around 4am to see several Jags players (who had just finished partying at an event held at the 5-points theatre) outside acting crazy and taking turns having sex with a woman on top of parked cars in complete public view.  Classy.

And where was his camera phone?  A couple snaps of this and the Five Points Area Merchants Association would have been fully funded for decades 

FPJ

ROFLMAO!  I SAID THE SAME THING!!!!

[Alva]

As far as the butt cans are concerned, many of the merchants have learned to refer to them as "bum magnets"

[RiversideLoki]

Alva's got it right here. Just look at the butt can on top of the trash can at Walgreens at Park & King. It's their favorite place to go. It's constantly flicked open and the butts with no cig left are thrown on the ground while they pick out the ones with any smokeability left in them.

As a regular (and a smoker) it does kinda tick me off to see the butts all over the ground. Luckily most of the places I frequent I can smoke in so it's not an issue.

And why wouldn't every district have a problem with the bums? It's a social problem that's only grown in recent years. It's gotten progressively worse in Riverside since the superbowl when they shuffled all of them out of down town only for new bums to move in to the urban core. The ones pushed out of downtown were a whole new set of crazy compared to the ones we had before.

I'm entirely against the hiring of bums for chores or what have you. Yeah I want them to get a leg up. But the ones that are hired in riverside will actually panhandle in the place while the clean up. It's ridiculous.