Did Wayne Weaver mess up by putting up the tarps?

[duvaldude08]

First,  I want to see this is not a blackout thread so please don't take it there. This is geared towards the tarps in particular. Do you think WW did more harm than help by putting up the tarps? When I look back at things now, I keep thinking " What the hell was he doing???" Not only did he put up tarps, but we let Winn dixie hoard tickets and give them away. In hind sight, that was really stupid. Instead of him approaching the situation saying, " Okay we have to fix this problem, we have to sell more tickets" , he resorted to making the problem go away, and it didn't. It only got worse. Its like he waited until we were in crisis mode to start thinking outside of the box.  IMO, he should have done what Khan is doing now. He should have brought in some people to help market this team and sell tickets. Our team should be regional after almost 20 years, and its not. Its like he wanted us to stay cooped up in Jacksonville with absolutely no exposure. That also contribute to the other owners in the league taking Jacksonville as a joke. As much as I love WW and appreciated everything he has done, he was extremely passive, too country and laid back, and just flat out did not have a vision for the franchise. Its like he let the franchise run itself into mediocrity and he was okay with that. I think part of the reason he sold team because he realized that he kinda screwed things up, and he know we deserved better. I actually respect him for admitting the mistakes he made and staying committed to our city as he promised.

Any thoughts?

[tufsu1]

I think Weaver was the team owner and could do as he pleased...that said, I believe he had the best interests of the team (his investment) and the community in mind.

[Bridges]

I think there certainly is some truth to the "mailing it in" thinking.  From 2000 on, the franchise was stagnant with ideas.  It actually began to take the fan base for granted and it showed.  It wasn't until very recently that, like you said, panic set in and a flurry of moves were made. 

The Winn-Dixie give away was a colossal failure, but not unthinkable.  Heck, check the comments of any Jaguar article to see someone suggest giving away the tickets in the tarp section.  It was just not thought out right, and another sign of taking the fanbase for granted.  "I have to pay for my season tickets, but you're going to give them to people for free at Winn Dixie"?

As for the tarps, that's not on Wayne.  That's on 1 game, FL v GA.  There is no amount of branding, or regional fan base building that would see sellout crowds of the 4th largest stadium in the NFL.  You just won't see that.  The stadium needed to be built so that it could expand for capacity, not shrink for it. 

[RockStar]

I applaud WW for bringing the Jags to Jax.

That being said, his discount shoe mentality is the reason why we're the discount shoe of the NFL.

[Dapperdan]

What else was he supposed to do? Our stadium is held hostage by one game a year. It had to be built that large, larger than Chicago's stadium. Even with the tarps on, our 67 k  still is more than Chicago's stadium. I feel bad for Kahn trying to figure out what to do, knowing that there needs to be a way to get the seating up to 76k once a year.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

IMO, I think you are all mostly right, just in the wrong order.  Let me fix it.

I believe he had the best interests of the team (his investment) and the community in mind.

but...

his discount shoe mentality is the reason why we're the discount shoe of the NFL.

That being said,

There is no amount of branding, or regional fan base building that would see sellout crowds of the 4th largest stadium in the NFL.  You just won't see that.

[kells904]

Interesting, strong opinions, DD....

I think Wayne Weaver's biggest "failing"--if you wanna call it that--is that he seems to be a people-pleaser.  As we've learned over the years, the locals are never without several demands in order to be made happy, and several times, Weaver listened and acted on those demands.  Escalators and cup holders are the ones that I know of...somebody probably told him to try giving away tickets and he caved reluctantly.

He didn't wanna fire Coughlin, he didn't wanna fire Del Rio; he doesn't seem to like doing unpleasant things because he's that good of a dude.  I'm not sure he would have fired Tom were it not for the public outcry, despite the salary cap issues while he GM'ed.  When he kept Jack on for another season, he held a press conference to explain himself--which he didn't need to do, but clearly felt he had to do.  I think the tarps were always meant to be temporary; I think he believed that we could remove tarps section by section, until the stadium was full like it was in the Old Days.

The FL-GA game makes for a unique situation that, I don't think any other NFL city and team have to deal with.  As for it making Jacksonville a joke--that mentality was already in the making, and this just made for a convenient affirmation of prejudice that was already there.  90% of the people that think this is a backwoods/hick town aren't looking to change their minds.  Other, more established teams have been stuck in neutral for years, but since it's us now, we suck as a fanbase and as an NFL city...and the Jags are DEFINITELY moving to L.A. 

"Nobody packs the U-Hauls like Duval."
                                    ----Warren Sapp

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

"Nobody packs the U-Hauls like Duval."
                                    ----Warren Sapp

I bet Sapp has changed his mind now that he's seen the bank pack his shit into U-hauls for him.   

[I-10east]

Weaver knew from the get-go that the stadium was too big, and  he wanted a smaller seating capacity. There should be more Jag fans outspoken about that stupid college game. Does everyone in charge have the balls to say '67,000 take it or leave it' to the cocktail party? No, they wanna have Cindy L. run one of the few things that keeps Jax progressive out of town. The phrases hicktown, GOB network, and FL GA game all goes hand and hand. Everytime I see that stupid gatorhead logo on a license plate, I think of something that sets Jacksonville back forty years in the past. 

[I-10east]

"Nobody packs the U-Hauls like Duval."
                                    ----Warren Sapp

I bet Sapp has changed his mind now that he's seen the bank pack his shit into U-hauls for him.   

Isn't it SO stupid for him to say that? He played in freaking Tampa Bay, that speaks for itself. He was good as a player, but he SUCKS as a person. Nobody likes him anyway, f*ck him!!!

[duvaldude08]

All great insight!! I just wanted to see what everyone else was thinking. I know WW had good intentions, but the approach was all wrong. I also think he was trying to do it all on his own and it was a burden. Khan on the other hand,  has hired all the right people and put them in the right places. Tarps should have been the LAST resort IMO. Not the first option. I think there was series of things from 2004-2009 made us look really bad and we still trying to recover from it.

[Tacachale]

No, he did not screw us with the tarps. The tarps saved us from even more blackouts, which would have been even worse.

The Weaver Jags were victims of their own early success. They were a brand new team at an exiting time in their city, and they got very good very fast. This resulted in a full stadium even with with its huge size, unprecedented number of luxury seats, and high ticket prices. Clearly there was a failure to adapt when things changed as we've been seeing for the last 12 years.

But really, it's not all on Weaver. Notably, the NFL's regressive and arbitrary blackout policy hit us and our large stadium hard. Additionally, more and more teams have swung new or renovated stadiums, with more and more club seats, which makes our not-old-by-any-reasonable-standard stadium one of the older in the league. Additionally, as gimmicky luxury seats become an increasingly significant revenue source for teams, it disadvantages smaller cities like Jacksonville compared to big metro areas with more corporate money.

[KenFSU]

My opinions:

1) With the tarps, as I'm glad many in this community realize, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. A market this size, with little regional support, simply cannot fill a 76,000 seat stadium. That fact has nothing to do at all with a lack of support from Jacksonville, or deficiencies with the Jaguars fan base. Our attendance averages the last two seasons are incredible for our market, and at the very top of the league in per capita support. I can't remember who, but someone here very accurately described the tarped over seats as "low hanging fruit" for the national media to jump on, but personally, I barely even notice the tarps when I'm there. It's not a perfect solution, and I really like the idea of reducing stadium capacity via movable fixtures that could be taken out for college football, but all things considered, I think we do a pretty good job of serving both the NFL and college football in the city.

2) The Winn Dixie thing was, without question, the stupidest decision the franchise ever made. It cheapened the perceived value of Jags tickets for years.

[duvaldude08]

My opinions:

1) With the tarps, as I'm glad many in this community realize, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. A market this size, with little regional support, simply cannot fill a 76,000 seat stadium. That fact has nothing to do at all with a lack of support from Jacksonville, or deficiencies with the Jaguars fan base. Our attendance averages the last two seasons are incredible for our market, and at the very top of the league in per capita support. I can't remember who, but someone here very accurately described the tarped over seats as "low hanging fruit" for the national media to jump on, but personally, I barely even notice the tarps when I'm there. It's not a perfect solution, and I really like the idea of reducing stadium capacity via movable fixtures that could be taken out for college football, but all things considered, I think we do a pretty good job of serving both the NFL and college football in the city.

2) The Winn Dixie thing was, without question, the stupidest decision the franchise ever made. It cheapened the perceived value of Jags tickets for years.

I just wish he would have tried to sell tickets instead of coping out with the tarps and the massive ticket giveaways. I feel like we didnt even try we just said " Oh well cover the seats up and give out tickets and hopefully they will come back."  We did absoultely nothing marketing wise until 2010, after the great collapse of 2009. But I also dont mind the tarps. I just wish they were clustered in one section and not spread out over the entire stadium. If they were just clustered in one spot, they would barely be noticable. As it stands, on TV it looks like gaping holes are over the stadium.

[Tacachale]

I don't mind the tarps. I mind the flack we get for them and I mind the NFL's pointless blackout enforcement that makes them necessary.

Seriously, who cares what percentage of a stadium is sold? It you should require a set minimum of tickets sold, or you shouldn't have a blackout rule to begin with.