East Coast Passenger Rail Mentions Jax

[thelakelander]

Why wouldn't you catch Sunrail and transfer at platform?  By the same token, in Miami one would catch Metrorail and transfer at platform to FECI.  Also, here are a few things that make your target market population center change:

1. Tampa/Lakeland

Until this thing is extended to Florida's West Coast, that's an extra +3 million residents to tap into.   Nevertheless, the market doesn't end at imaginary MSA borders.  It's been rapidly growing SW for decades now.

2. Tourism market

They get 50 million tourist a year.  The lion's share are in the vicinity of the airport and SW towards Polk County and Tampa.  That's a number we simply can't ignore that a traditional city doesn't. We don't have to like it but its a reality.

Also, FECI has stated that only four stops are certain at this point.  One each in Orlando, West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale and Miami.

So far, Cumber said, four stops appear certain for the train that has been dubbed All Aboard Florida: Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach and Orlando. The exact locations remain uncertain, except for Miami, where FECI owns nine acres downtown.

Missing as a possible stop is Cocoa, where the proposed train would veer west for Orlando. Bob Kamm, director of the Space Coast Transportation Planning Organization in Viera, said Brevard County officials want to know if they will have any involvement with the system.

"All we would see is the negatives ... if you are just blowing through and waving as you go by," Kamm said.

Cumber said the ridership study would determine if there is a Cocoa stop, but he added that the train's biggest appeal is that it would be faster to ride it to Miami or Orlando than drive a car. The projected travel time is three hours and two minutes, he said, compared with about four hours by auto.

http://southeast.construction.com/yb/se/article.aspx?story_id=172605338

With Sunrail already serving the entire metro Orlando population north of the airport, I'd be surprised if FECI:

A. Bypasses the OIA/I-Drive area for downtown Orlando.

B. Adds two Orlando stations as a part of phase 1.

[Ocklawaha]

Why wouldn't you catch Sunrail and transfer at platform?

Nope, Sunrail would be great for getting around the metro, but it's not the sort of train I'm going to drag 3 suitcases onto in order to drag them off and reload at OIA. Driving would be much simpler, but allow me to load those bags ONCE onto a conventional train, and I'll ride. 

By the same token, in Miami one would catch Metrorail and transfer at platform to FECI.  Also, here are a few things that make your target market population center change:

1. Tampa/Lakeland

Until this thing is extended to Florida's West Coast, that's an extra +3 million residents to tap into.   Nevertheless, the market doesn't end at imaginary MSA borders.  It's been rapidly growing SW for decades now.

Agreed, however it's also been expanding northeast for the same amount of time. Except for a tiny stretch of swamp, EVERYTHING between Daytona and Downtown Orlando is already suburban with some urban. I simply think it's wrong to try and make a train into a plane. I will grant you and TUFSU the fact that some people MIGHT visit Mickey and use public transit to go south or east, but the lion's share of those people already have their tour bus tickets in hand when they step off the plane, or they have a rental car. People from Miami certainly DON'T need Orlando's airport to travel around the world when they can do that from their home town.

I mean, why not a station at the Orlando-Sanford International Airport? Daytona Beach? There is also a landing strip up near Apopka, but they sure as hell are not train stations. We have long preached the wisdom of bringing Amtrak back downtown in Jacksonville, we've seen how ridiculous it is to travel 5 miles out of town to get to the depot. Likewise the train station for Orlando needs to be IN Orlando's CBD. Nobody form Tampa-Lakeland is going to drive to Orlando to catch a train for Miami, even Amtrak's Silver Star would beat that end to end time.

2. Tourism market

They get 50 million tourist a year.  The lion's share are in the vicinity of the airport and SW towards Polk County and Tampa.  That's a number we simply can't ignore that a traditional city doesn't. We don't have to like it but its a reality.

Do you remember the plan for the triangle of passenger rail? Tampa-Miami-Orlando-Tampa? People from roughly Haines City westward to Tampa also do not need OIA, in light of Tampa's great airport.

Also, FECI has stated that only four stops are certain at this point.  One each in Orlando, West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale and Miami.

So far, Cumber said, four stops appear certain for the train that has been dubbed All Aboard Florida: Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach and Orlando. The exact locations remain uncertain, except for Miami, where FECI owns nine acres downtown.

Missing as a possible stop is Cocoa, where the proposed train would veer west for Orlando. Bob Kamm, director of the Space Coast Transportation Planning Organization in Viera, said Brevard County officials want to know if they will have any involvement with the system.

"All we would see is the negatives ... if you are just blowing through and waving as you go by," Kamm said.

Cumber said the ridership study would determine if there is a Cocoa stop, but he added that the train's biggest appeal is that it would be faster to ride it to Miami or Orlando than drive a car. The projected travel time is three hours and two minutes, he said, compared with about four hours by auto.

http://southeast.construction.com/yb/se/article.aspx?story_id=172605338

Cocoa will happen, in fact they will probably revive the 1960's modern station still standing along the FEC RY. I think in time there will be several other stops with trains running end to end making different intermediate stops. This way no one train will stop at all stations in order to keep the rail's shining.

With Sunrail already serving the entire metro Orlando population north of the airport, I'd be surprised if FECI:

A. Bypasses the OIA/I-Drive area for downtown Orlando.

I don't think it will. It IS going to rap around the south end of the airport, a perfect location for a way-station.

B. Adds two Orlando stations as a part of phase 1.

[thelakelander]

When I grew up in Winter Haven and lived in Lakeland, we routinely flew out of both airports depending on the destination and fare.  Both are relatively a short drive.  Heck, I still fly out of Orlando a lot now, depending on the fares.  Anyway, as I said earlier, we'll see.  At this time, nothing I'm seeing written in the papers or hearing out of Orlando (I'm working with a lot of the public stakeholders down there on another transportation project) suggests that it will be going into DT Orlando.  If it does, lunch is on me.

[tufsu1]

ok...so here's a new method of connecting OIA to SunRail....this makes high speed rail look cheap!

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/maglev-company-says-it-can-fill-15-mile-gap-sunrail

[tufsu1]

Another article about Miami-Orlando rail link...note that it mentions a Cocoa to Jacksonville link

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/120614/story6.shtml

[thelakelander]

This article reads like the project will happen regardless of the study results.  It seems their study is only intended to further flesh out how exactly this system will operate and how much it will cost FECI. 

[fsujax]

^^that is probably case Lake. They have been doing their due diligence for a while now.

[tufsu1]

I like the part that refers to the portion between Cocoa and Orlando as an area already designated for public use....just come out and say Beachline Expwy!

[Tacachale]

^God, I wish that existed when I lived in Orlando. That drive SUCKS. Though I guess it just goes to show why you don't move from Jax to Orlando if you like the beach.

[BackinJax05]

The latest report just confirms what we've been saying, THIS WILL HAPPEN. There is an interesting bit about OIA having a station and apparently considers that it will be used by JACKSONVILLE PASSENGERS! Thank you Orlando. Otherwise anyone still on the fence? Just ask yourself why they are 'picking operators' and 'trains' but they still don't know if it's feasible! Yeah, right...

The company already owns 200 miles of track needed for the route- it says it will cost a billion dollars to build the final 40 miles between Cocoa and Orlando, and modify the existing freight track to accommodate the new service, called All Aboard Florida.

Spokesperson Christine Barney says there’s an appetite for intercity rail in Florida- but the ill fated high speed rail project between Tampa and Orlando shows public funding is not the way to go. 

Barney says the company is confident it will get the funding it needs to start rolling in 2 years time.

“We’re already looking at selecting the operators, picking the actual trains, you know, we’re moving very quickly," she says.
"We understand that if the project is going to move forward things have to happen quickly, but we think that’s a reasonable expectation.”

The service aims to make the trip from Orlando to Miami in about 3 hours, and could run up to 14 times a day. 
Barney says that could mean up to 3 million fewer cars on the road.

“It is going to be a learned behavior because people haven’t had this option before. But our initial studies indicate that there are enough people that don’t like the delays that occur, the traffic that occurs, the cost, wear and tear on cars, gas, and the difficulties of driving.”

The train will stop in West Palm Beach and Fort Lauderdale, but Barney says there could be potential to link up to airports and seaports- including Port Canaveral and Orlando International Airport.

Stan Thornton, project Liaison Manager for the Greater Orlando Aviation Authority, says the airport is talking to Florida East Coast Industries about the proposed rail line.

Thornton says it could increase passenger traffic by giving people better connections to the airport.

“We have people who come down from Jacksonville, we know that from our garage traffic," says Thornton.

"It’s what we call a catchment area and we think that could increase by up to 50 per cent.”

All Aboard Florida is not the only passenger rail service that could be rolling on the east coast: Amtrak is also exploring a service from Jacksonville to Miami on the same stretch of track.

(OCK NOTE: This also bodes well for the Cocoa station which is supposedly still 'uncertain'. Fact is, if the Amtrak trains happen on the FEC, the connection to OIA from JAX would be in COCOA.)

Florida East Coast Industries says Amtrak and All Aboard could both use the track without any conflict.
The company says it will have a better idea of the final route of the train and the timeline for completion once ridership, engineering and environmental studies are finished in the next few months.

SOURCE WMFE:  http://www.wmfe.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=12779&news_iv_ctrl=1041

This is great! A train from Jacksonville to Orlando International Airport could put JIA out of business.

Lets face it, flights from Orlando to ANYWHERE are much less expensive than from JIA. Even paying rail fare to Orlando, then airfare from Orlando would STILL be less expensive than airfare out of JIA.

Count me in!

[tufsu1]

^ I don't see how a 3 hour train ride to OIA would put JIA out of business....and I have a hard time believeing that a $20 one-way fare ($40 round trip) would still allow for cheaper flights from Orlando to ANYWHERE.

[thelakelander]

The cost of train tickets would probably cancel out any savings. Besides, the differences in prices depend on the destination. As I type, I'm in JAX right now, after a weekend in Cincinnati. In my particular case, flying out of JAX was the cheapest.

[tufsu1]

^ blasphemy lake...Orlando must always be cheaper

[BackinJax05]

^ blasphemy lake...Orlando must always be cheaper

Any time Ive looked up flights, it is

[Tacachale]

It all depends. When I flew to Boston last month tickets from JAX were far and away cheaper than the other available flights in state. It was direct too. On the other hand I've flown out of Orlando and Sanford to get to Michigan, though there the wasted gas, parking fees, and the hassle of two 2+ hour drives really negated the savings. We won't be doing that again even if it is cheaper.