Is Riverside/Avondale Ready For Mellow Mushroom?

[ben says]

WLA is for the restaurant

Hahahahha..are you serious?!?!?

Right.........and the gas station is a dump too!

[WmNussbaum]

As much dishonesty and backroom dealing WLA was involved in, I wonder how accurate the accounting is of their attorney trust accounts.  In my opinion, if they are willing to lie about a restaurant going into their neighborhood, why not lie when they are stealing funds from their clients.    See what I did there...

Yes, Gators312, I see what you did. You defamed a third generation Jacksonville lawyer of impeccable credentials. To imply that the lawyer might steal from clients is irresponsible when you have absolutely no facts to back up the statement. I intend to pass this along just in case Mr Donahoo missed it, and now that you've stepped over the boundary line of fair comment, I truly hope he sues you for defamation.

[ben says]

As much dishonesty and backroom dealing WLA was involved in, I wonder how accurate the accounting is of their attorney trust accounts.  In my opinion, if they are willing to lie about a restaurant going into their neighborhood, why not lie when they are stealing funds from their clients.    See what I did there...

Yes, Gators312, I see what you did. You defamed a third generation Jacksonville lawyer of impeccable credentials. To imply that the lawyer might steal from clients is irresponsible when you have absolutely no facts to back up the statement. I intend to pass this along just in case Mr Donahoo missed it, and now that you've stepped over the boundary line of fair comment, I truly hope he sues you for defamation.

Excessive at best. Where's the injury?

[Tacachale]

Yes, lawsuits, exactly what the situation needs...

[Gators312]

Such bluster Mr. Nussbaum.    You have been so quiet on the MM subject lately, welcome back to the discussion.

I was merely stating my opinion, IF someone were to be dishonest in one situation I would believe they would be dishonest in another in my opinion. 

What are your opinions of the changes to the design?  Do they address your concerns about new businesses entering the neighborhood? 

Do you think it is fair to impose a set of restrictions on MM alone?

You obviously have been lurking around here, I would like to hear your input on the recent developments on the design.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I suppose their willing to see how long MM is willing to put up with their BS before just giving up on the project altogether.

Mellow Mushroom really needs to stop being so, eh, 'mellow' about this situation and turn the tables.  I'm sure there's other avenues that they could use to circumvent this whole WLA schill job and probably RAP as well.  I'd start with officially fixing the record over whether the gas station is actually a contributing structure or not.

Next time you shell out $800,000 for a dump of a gas station, let me know, if you are willing to give up on your investment! That would be ludicrous!

MM is not being mellow, they are working to get the business operational, every day that the DUMP sits standing, the Valentino family is losing money. WLA is for the restaurant, and so am I, there is no reason to circumvent the opposition, you only throw gasoline onto a fire that is beginning to die down. Work with your opponents, compromise, and move on. This is a business deal, its not a professional war between adversaries. The Valentino  family has been professional about the entire process and the MM party has been very above board with everything, which is commendable. No need to ignite a new backlash. There is enough envy out here on MJ, no need for it between these 2 willing parties.   

While I agree with you that MM make be 'working with' whatever and whomever to open the business, WLA is doing everything they can do to stall the project, and if you beleive otherwise, you're either extremely naive or just lying to yourself. 

I think you're a pretty smart guy, actually, so stop telling yourself these fibs.

This quit being a typical business transaction when a 3rd party LLC jumped in the fray to legally enforce the will of a few people - that for obvious reason - are publically supporting the Shroom while doing everything in their power behind the scenes to prevent it from actually opening. 

That wasn't a 'typical' redesign nor where they offering any real help.  They've (WLA) already stated that they're not going to approve their own design?!?!?  How is this anything buy malicious?  Next comes another PUD hearing.  Next comes another site plan.  Next comes another PUD hearing.  Why?  In order to alter the project so much from the original 'approved' plan so that it falls under a new project, which would be severely limited by J.Love's Pro-Business bill that was passed last month. 

If you want a MM pizza in the R/A area, you're just going to have to bring back with from the one of the other locales.  This one isn't going to open.

[ben says]

Such bluster Mr. Nussbaum.    You have been so quiet on the MM subject lately, welcome back to the discussion.

I was merely stating my opinion, IF someone were to be dishonest in one situation I would believe they would be dishonest in another in my opinion. 

What are your opinions of the changes to the design?  Do they address your concerns about new businesses entering the neighborhood? 

Do you think it is fair to impose a set of restrictions on MM alone?

You obviously have been lurking around here, I would like to hear your input on the recent developments on the design.

LOVE the avatar.

I suppose their willing to see how long MM is willing to put up with their BS before just giving up on the project altogether.

Mellow Mushroom really needs to stop being so, eh, 'mellow' about this situation and turn the tables.  I'm sure there's other avenues that they could use to circumvent this whole WLA schill job and probably RAP as well.  I'd start with officially fixing the record over whether the gas station is actually a contributing structure or not.

Next time you shell out $800,000 for a dump of a gas station, let me know, if you are willing to give up on your investment! That would be ludicrous!

MM is not being mellow, they are working to get the business operational, every day that the DUMP sits standing, the Valentino family is losing money. WLA is for the restaurant, and so am I, there is no reason to circumvent the opposition, you only throw gasoline onto a fire that is beginning to die down. Work with your opponents, compromise, and move on. This is a business deal, its not a professional war between adversaries. The Valentino  family has been professional about the entire process and the MM party has been very above board with everything, which is commendable. No need to ignite a new backlash. There is enough envy out here on MJ, no need for it between these 2 willing parties.   

While I agree with you that MM make be 'working with' whatever and whomever to open the business, WLA is doing everything they can do to stall the project, and if you beleive otherwise, you're either extremely naive or just lying to yourself. 

I think you're a pretty smart guy, actually, so stop telling yourself these fibs.

This quit being a typical business transaction when a 3rd party LLC jumped in the fray to legally enforce the will of a few people - that for obvious reason - are publically supporting the Shroom while doing everything in their power behind the scenes to prevent it from actually opening. 

That wasn't a 'typical' redesign nor where they offering any real help.  They've (WLA) already stated that they're not going to approve their own design?!?!?  How is this anything buy malicious?  Next comes another PUD hearing.  Next comes another site plan.  Next comes another PUD hearing.  Why?  In order to alter the project so much from the original 'approved' plan so that it falls under a new project, which would be severely limited by J.Love's Pro-Business bill that was passed last month. 

If you want a MM pizza in the R/A area, you're just going to have to bring back with from the one of the other locales.  This one isn't going to open.

About sums it up

[mtraininjax]

That DUMP of a gas station, when remade, was going to make the difference between strip mall and unique environ.

Ben, you go spend almost 1 million dollars for a dump of a building and then spend months fighting with the local historic preservation, angry zealots, and the city to push your bullshXt concept across their desks. The station is a dump and it costs the Valentino's money every day it sits there.  You don't understand business, period!

While you live in fantasyland, the rest of us live in reality and the reality is that the empty DUMP sits costs money every day. So the original design was shot down, compromise, move on and get it done.

All in all I think that WLA and RAP just have to be sure they get to dictate some changes to anyone's plans.  Who cares if the changes make sense, or if they address the "issues".  Just as long as new businesses respect the authority of RAP and maybe a few well connected attorneys and keep them happy.

Well, if you setup a business in the historic district, you do have to listen to RAP and the City. Really no choice.

If you want a MM pizza in the R/A area, you're just going to have to bring back with from the one of the other locales.  This one isn't going to open.

Its a pretty sad day when you think this will not happen, I disagree and living on Edgewood with some people who are in the "know", this will happen, but it will be a compromise. The existing space of 'town and Benhams is 6000 square feet, at the top end of what MM needs. Sure the DUMP would have been nice, but it can me a nice parking lot and we can move on and talk about the DUMPS in downtown and how they can be saved.  I think you need to have more faith that this will happen, I know it will. You don't spend a million bucks to piss it away.

The parking issue is an issue, anyone who does not think so, go look at Talbot between Riverside and St. Johns, that is Tommy Donahoo's block and he lives on the SE corner of that block, if you want to get under his skin, go block his driveway. Of course, your vehicle may not be there when you return, but that is what happens when you take bad advice.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

While you live in fantasyland, the rest of us live in reality and the reality is that the empty DUMP sits costs money every day. So the original design was shot down, compromise, move on and get it done.

So then would it benefit or not benefit WLA to keep this thing tied up as long as possible?

[mtraininjax]

In order to alter the project so much from the original 'approved' plan so that it falls under a new project, which would be severely limited by J.Love's Pro-Business bill that was passed last month.

Love will not force this to be a new project. He has gone, on record, stating that MM was grandfathered in. The City and Planning would make an exception. My experience with the city is that they are good about staying a course, having had my own COA and Zoning issues with them.  It is 100% pure compromise. I am confident that it will happen, but at a scale that is a compromise to those concerned, and there are others besides WLA who are concerned.

So then would it benefit or not benefit WLA to keep this thing tied up as long as possible?

What would they do? File a lawsuit? Counter-suit? When would it end? Donahoo and others will damage their reputation,  all the people will be thrust into the front of the public, and for what? To stop a business from building a 6,000 square foot business in existing space, using parking spaces from the property it owns next door?

All it takes is money, and we complain about the political ad spending, this will be just as silly. DUMP the DUMP!

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

We're looking at this from two different perspectives.

I believe that WLA is using it's leverage to prevent ANY construction from taking place.

You seem to believe that this is a normal business transaction, with two side working things out.

The only compromise that has been made have been from MM's side.  WLA has rejected thier own redesign for God's sake.  This isn't about whether or not a gas station is reused or a new building is constructed, this is more about a small group that appears, at least to me, are trying to prevent another restaurant from opening because their backers are afraid of the competition. 

And I truly believe that this isn't even the end game.  This is trial by error stategizing to manage the area as a whole.  Next up, Monte's, except by then, they'll know exactly which hoops to make the developer jump if it doesn't fit into 'their' version of a good business.

[ChriswUfGator]

Mtrain you're not this stupid. If he withdraws the PUD application as they're pressuring him to do, when he resubmits he's governed by the moratorium. He'd have a takings claim as the owner of the parcel, but that doesn't mean he's opening the restaurant. Quit denying what's already obvious to everyone.

[mtraininjax]

Mtrain you're not this stupid. If he withdraws the PUD application as they're pressuring him to do, when he resubmits he's governed by the moratorium. He'd have a takings claim as the owner of the parcel, but that doesn't mean he's opening the restaurant. Quit denying what's already obvious to everyone.

Maybe I am, what is your feeling on Tommy Donahoo as a lawyer or George Gabel as a lawyer?

You seem to believe that this is a normal business transaction, with two side working things out.

I still have faith that it will be worked out, I believe John has faith it will be worked out. The Brick opened up in the space they were in, nothing more. John can always go back to the original space and work within it. Use the parking lot for pure parking, only for MM. John can make it happen. He knows he will make money over the long run.  This is his fall back position.

Not having spoken with Steve, but looking at what he used in his space at the Brick, he used the existing space, and I would be pissed too,  if someone tried to get a competitive advantage over my space by building something bigger than what I had, too.  This is all about business on one side, fear on the other of the WLA residents.

[thelakelander]

The parking issue is an issue, anyone who does not think so, go look at Talbot between Riverside and St. Johns, that is Tommy Donahoo's block and he lives on the SE corner of that block, if you want to get under his skin, go block his driveway. Of course, your vehicle may not be there when you return, but that is what happens when you take bad advice.

What is the exact issue with parking on Talbot that can't be resolved with either no parking signs or painted parallel parking stalls?  Seems like an easy fix regardless of whatever happens on the other block.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Maybe I am, what is your feeling on Tommy Donahoo as a lawyer or George Gabel as a lawyer?

Really?  Who cares?

If Tommy Danahoo (the lawyer) and George Gabel (the lawyer) came out as concerned citizens against a nefarious developer, then they wouldn't have hidden behind the protection of WLA, LLC.  They're both quite capable to file the same paperwork personally or under the name of their firm. 

They chose not to, taking your personal opinion of them out of the equation.