Jacksonville housing prices make the national media (for the wrong reason)

[Adam W]

At the risk of going totally off-piste here, I will say something about Tampa: I think that whole region does a great job of marketing its strongest assets: the bay, the ocean and the natural environment in general.

I think Jax can compete with that. Sure, we don't have Tampa Bay. But we have a pretty awesome river. The St John's is massive and it's easily Jacksonville's greatest asset. And our beaches are gorgeous and wide. With a bit of planning, investment and marketing, I think Jax could really take off as a destination for outdoorsy-types. We need more stuff like the Baldwin rail trail (or whatever it's called).

Get the locals out of the bars and out in the sunshine. The RAM was a great idea and I think more stuff like that, stuff that showcases the river, is just what the city needs. I'd rather live in a revitalised Downtown Jax than in Tampa any day of the week.

[Dashing Dan]

I have been looking primarily at places in Riverside, Avondale, DT and San Marco. Am buying a rental property in Orange Park though, because it's so cheap.

With the added costs for transportation, maybe the property in orange park is not so cheap after all.

Doesn't matter to me. I'm not the one paying the rent. Just profiting from the ones that do think it's a good idea.

point taken!

[Bativac]

That's another one of those unique Jacksonville attitude things. Everybody, from antique stores, to car dealers, to people selling a house, think whatever they've got is worth a million dollars. I have lived here 12 going on 13 years, and I have never bought a car here, you can't get a decent deal. Almost everything in my house came from somewhere else, I can't get a decent deal in town. I mean, I've had these absurd arguments with people where I pull out the iphone and show them that whatever it is we're haggling over costs less brand new with free shipping on the internet and they still won't budge. I just had that same argument with a mortgage broker who was selling off her office furniture on Craigslist last week, I wanted the leather sofa and she wanted more for it used than it sold for new, and was a real bitch about it. Ok, well what do you think I'm gonna do? Ordered it online. I've had that happen hundreds of times since I've lived here.

When I used to be into real estate, I bought everything from the banks, they're the only sellers in town who are rational. The locals are downright delusional. It's an apartment building, if the rent won't cover the mortgage wtf is the point of buying it? "We think we'll get that." Ok, good luck. Doesn't matter what the item is, it's usually overpriced in Jacksonville. I buy clothes here and I do alright on that, but anything else and it's usually waaaaaaaaay overpriced.

I think that's people in general though. I blame Antiques Roadshow and Storage Wars and other stuff on TV that makes it look like your junk is worth a fortune. In reality, guess what, your used couch is just a used couch and if it ain't cheap I'll just buy a new one. "But I paid $600 for it!" Yeah, and?

Same thing for houses. "I paid $350k for it, I need to get at least that much out of it!" Sorry buddy, nobody wants it at that price. You either come down or you sit on that house the rest of your life.

[Fallen Buckeye]

My wife and I just bought a home at the end of last year, and it was a total nightmare. We had 3 deals fall through for various reasons, and the one we got almost fell through about a dozen times. A ton of other houses we liked were gone before we could put in a bid or schedule a showing. The house we eventually bought was a short sale and took about 5 months to close the deal from contract to closing.

I can tell you a lot of investors were buying up property, and the banks were nearly impossible to work with on both ends. The sellers bank had rejected 2 other people before us who had offered list price because it was less than what they wanted to get for it. Of course, it would have never sold for the price they wanted to get for it. The bank tried to drive the price up on us, but we refused to pay a dime more than our original offer, and they caved. Don't even get me started on my bank. I'll just say that I will never get a loan through Chase ever again.

[ben says]

That's another one of those unique Jacksonville attitude things. Everybody, from antique stores, to car dealers, to people selling a house, think whatever they've got is worth a million dollars.

When I used to be into real estate, I bought everything from the banks, they're the only sellers in town who are rational. The locals are downright delusional. It's an apartment building, if the rent won't cover the mortgage wtf is the point of buying it? "We think we'll get that." Ok, good luck. Doesn't matter what the item is, it's usually overpriced in Jacksonville. I buy clothes here and I do alright on that, but anything else and it's usually waaaaaaaaay overpriced.

This is what I'm experiencing right now. Looking at some investments in Riverside. Bar none, everyone I've talked to thinks they can get about 4-5 times what their home/property is worth. Talked to someone yesterday on Herschel who thinks they're going to get around $250k for their home. The pool is in violation of city code. The house is falling in on itself. The plumbing runs into the backyard. And when you point this stuff out...well...they give you that look as in "Go screw yourself, I know what I'm going to get for this property."

Had a similar experience with an apartment complex. They want over 1/2 a million for it. The rent roll won't even cover the friendliest mortgage around. They scoff and say "we know what it's worth."

Drives me insane.

[ben says]

"But I paid $600 for it!" Yeah, and? Same thing for houses. "I paid $350k for it, I need to get at least that much out of it!" Sorry buddy, nobody wants it at that price. You either come down or you sit on that house the rest of your life.

I see this too. My rule of thumb (along with many on here, I assume): "It's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it."

Sellers HATE to hear that one...

[simms3]

Does anyone know if the statistics are skewed in Jacksonville?  For instance, are the suburbs still oversupplied and a difficult sell?  Are places like Riverside and San Marco and Springfield seeing appreciation?  From what I have heard, there is actually only a 5-6 month "supply" of inventory in the market and all submarkets are still coming down.

I ask this because another city that was mentioned in the article was Atlanta where the median was $150K and the sale price was $90K.  I haven't heard numbers that low, but I do know there is still something like a 2 year supply of homes in the mass of sprawling suburbs that are impossible to sell, and the foreclosures are still rampant.  At the same time, the City of Atlanta has seen some appreciation, and the median home price there in some of the inner neighborhoods are between $400K-$1M, and supply is obviously tight as more people try to move in.

[ChriswUfGator]

That's another one of those unique Jacksonville attitude things. Everybody, from antique stores, to car dealers, to people selling a house, think whatever they've got is worth a million dollars. I have lived here 12 going on 13 years, and I have never bought a car here, you can't get a decent deal. Almost everything in my house came from somewhere else, I can't get a decent deal in town. I mean, I've had these absurd arguments with people where I pull out the iphone and show them that whatever it is we're haggling over costs less brand new with free shipping on the internet and they still won't budge. I just had that same argument with a mortgage broker who was selling off her office furniture on Craigslist last week, I wanted the leather sofa and she wanted more for it used than it sold for new, and was a real bitch about it. Ok, well what do you think I'm gonna do? Ordered it online. I've had that happen hundreds of times since I've lived here.

When I used to be into real estate, I bought everything from the banks, they're the only sellers in town who are rational. The locals are downright delusional. It's an apartment building, if the rent won't cover the mortgage wtf is the point of buying it? "We think we'll get that." Ok, good luck. Doesn't matter what the item is, it's usually overpriced in Jacksonville. I buy clothes here and I do alright on that, but anything else and it's usually waaaaaaaaay overpriced.

I think that's people in general though. I blame Antiques Roadshow and Storage Wars and other stuff on TV that makes it look like your junk is worth a fortune. In reality, guess what, your used couch is just a used couch and if it ain't cheap I'll just buy a new one. "But I paid $600 for it!" Yeah, and?

Same thing for houses. "I paid $350k for it, I need to get at least that much out of it!" Sorry buddy, nobody wants it at that price. You either come down or you sit on that house the rest of your life.

Yeah I used to think that, but after the 400th time I ran up against the Jacksonville brick wall of unreasonable bullshit, and then went somewhere else and bought the same thing for less, I realized it's actually this city. I have this problem nowhere else, so I basically just quit buying anything here. People are, I don't want to call it uninformed, but it's something along those lines, a basic lack of understanding of how to negotiate. They figure out what they want for whatever it is they're selling, then if anyone tries to negotiate with them on price, they get all flustered and take it as some kind of personal insult. Tell me with a straight face you don't know exactly what I'm talking about. Everywhere else, a negotiation is just a negotiation, not a pissing contest.

[ben says]

Chris, I see what you're saying. But, does that explain why I'm running into this problem with national, even multinational real estate companies? I expected it from Joe Blow on Herschel, but not from _________ (rather not call them out by name yet) who sells real estate everywhere from NYC to Belize.

[ChriswUfGator]

Because at the end of the day they're just the broker, the person with the authority to actually make the deal you want is very likely based here and steeped in that same mentality. If it's a local owner then there you go, and if it's a bank, most of them have regional servicing offices, many of them based here. Even if not, they're relying on advice from local appraisers and REO management firms who recommend prices. I shit you not, if you think I'm kidding about this being a Jacksonville thing, go anywhere else. You can get people in other cities down on the phone before you've even looked at it more than they'll budge here.

[MusicMan]

I've had great success buying and selling locally on Craigslist. From used pool pumps and filters to home furnishings. I even got $250 for my used Bob stroller to the secong guy who came to see it.

Reale estate valuations/transactions are based on appraisals. Any decent Realtor can do a BPO (Broker Price Opinion), a non binding determination of value that should be accurate to about 10%.  Investments properties
are valued by the rent roll. Very few investors will pay more than 100 times the gross monthly rent. Most want a better ratio. If you can get one at 50 times the monthly rent then that is usually very attractive.

The comment "My Realtor said offer 50% of list price" is laughable. That implies every Realtor in Jax is clueless. Many are excellent, many are bad.  There are plenty of recent closing where sellers are getting close to the asking price. There are also properties priced below fair market value, in hopes of generating multiple offers and getting a price above the ask. I am seeing this quite a bit.

Renter's are paying well over $1000 (monthly) for properties around Five Points, Riverside Market Square, and in Avondale.  The rental market in the RAP area is strong. My buddy owns several props and rarely has a vacancy for more than 1 month. He gets $620 for a nice 1 bed 1 bath and up to $750 for 2 bed 1 bath place. His apartments are nice but not luxurious. 

Real estate tip: Buy location first. A leaky roof can be fixed. A crappy location, not so easy.

[mtraininjax]

I buy clothes here and I do alright on that, but anything else and it's usually waaaaaaaaay overpriced.

Its a trade off, really. I can get clothes online with sales and get a good deal, I do that cause everything is at my fingertips, on sale and I hate the malls. I don't need to go to St. Johns Town Center for stuff, like others, I buy most of my needs, from Craigslist (Its amazing the stuff people would rather sell for half off their retail value).

My wife is a Realtor and she has 1.9 million under contract right now, she has been a Realtor now for 5 years in Avondale, and she is really good at knowing values of properties. Our prices are coming back in the historic areas of town and the beach. As people get better jobs, and prices rise, they can afford to leave and take a job elsewhere. Lots more homes on the market at realistic prices AND the cheap bastard investors are finding deals harder and harder to find, so the pendulum is swinging to a Buyers market, maybe not as crazy as 2005/2006, but we are headed up.

Like Chris, I have never purchased an Auto here in Jax. Its ridiculous that the car dealers think their rubber is worth 2k more, but they must have a burr up their butts cause its nuts what they ask for cars. Now with auto trader and Craigslist, I can get info on a car anywhere and with carfax, all the history. So it must be all the idiots in Jacksonville buying cars who feel like they are getting the deal they want. I don't know, but there are better options elsewhere for sure with cars.

On another note, just finished a shift at a RAP house, we had 600+ people in 3 hours at our house. It was amazing!

[cityimrov]

That's another one of those unique Jacksonville attitude things. Everybody, from antique stores, to car dealers, to people selling a house, think whatever they've got is worth a million dollars. I have lived here 12 going on 13 years, and I have never bought a car here, you can't get a decent deal. Almost everything in my house came from somewhere else, I can't get a decent deal in town. I mean, I've had these absurd arguments with people where I pull out the iphone and show them that whatever it is we're haggling over costs less brand new with free shipping on the internet and they still won't budge. I just had that same argument with a mortgage broker who was selling off her office furniture on Craigslist last week, I wanted the leather sofa and she wanted more for it used than it sold for new, and was a real bitch about it. Ok, well what do you think I'm gonna do? Ordered it online. I've had that happen hundreds of times since I've lived here.

When I used to be into real estate, I bought everything from the banks, they're the only sellers in town who are rational. The locals are downright delusional. It's an apartment building, if the rent won't cover the mortgage wtf is the point of buying it? "We think we'll get that." Ok, good luck. Doesn't matter what the item is, it's usually overpriced in Jacksonville. I buy clothes here and I do alright on that, but anything else and it's usually waaaaaaaaay overpriced.

I think that's people in general though. I blame Antiques Roadshow and Storage Wars and other stuff on TV that makes it look like your junk is worth a fortune. In reality, guess what, your used couch is just a used couch and if it ain't cheap I'll just buy a new one. "But I paid $600 for it!" Yeah, and?

Same thing for houses. "I paid $350k for it, I need to get at least that much out of it!" Sorry buddy, nobody wants it at that price. You either come down or you sit on that house the rest of your life.

Yeah I used to think that, but after the 400th time I ran up against the Jacksonville brick wall of unreasonable bullshit, and then went somewhere else and bought the same thing for less, I realized it's actually this city. I have this problem nowhere else, so I basically just quit buying anything here. People are, I don't want to call it uninformed, but it's something along those lines, a basic lack of understanding of how to negotiate. They figure out what they want for whatever it is they're selling, then if anyone tries to negotiate with them on price, they get all flustered and take it as some kind of personal insult. Tell me with a straight face you don't know exactly what I'm talking about. Everywhere else, a negotiation is just a negotiation, not a pissing contest.

If your wondering why Jacksonville is in decline.  If your wondering why the urban core is having issues.  If your wondering why our city leaders and residents cannot make good decisions.  Chris, you have given the biggest answers out there of what's wrong with the city. 

The city, as a whole, believes it's worth more then it actually is.  Most the residents here believe their ideas are better than it actually is.  The actual numbers, the indisputable facts says something else.

The residents here would rather sit with what they have and wait until some "big" thing finds them to prove them right instead of just sell it at what it's worth, learn a life lesson, AND MOVE ON! 

[Anti redneck]

Doesn't surprise me. Prices are higher like people actually want to live in Jacksonville when it's actually cheaper to live in a real city with so much more to offer. "Hey, please come live in our trashy mega-town! You pay more for much less, but still... we still believe we're better than all the rest. See? We have a Cheesecake Factory and so many different Wal-Marts to choose from, so that makes us cool!"

[Dashing Dan]

Jacksonville has always been a military town. 

Former officers expect the rest of us to behave like enlisted men and women, but we don't fall into line that easily.