Observations from last visit in Jax

[mtraininjax]

1) Orsay is seriously one of the best restaurants I have ever eaten at.  I have eaten there a few times, and each time the drinks are very good, the food is excellent, the service is top notch and the atmosphere is great.  Jonathan Insetta and his team of chefs and managers really know what they are doing!!! 

+1 - Amen, best service, best food, best beverages, and great staff. This should be the model for all Jacksonville restaurants to adhere. It reminds me of Food 101 in Atlanta.

Coming to Jacksonville and viewing the courthouse would probably be #100 out of 100 options. It was ugly on Bay Street, why should it be anything different on Monroe? Besides, I won't be going there to hang out and admire the structure. Same with the Yates building, eh, you could put the same people on Beach Blvd, they do the same thing. Its a building, again, eh.

Ortega Bridge is old as dirt, better for the State to get it right and fix it right than to have to crap out on the people who use it and be down for another 9-12 months for silly things that could have been fixed now. Supposed to be open at end of April 2012, but we shall see.

Speed Traps? Really? Pay attention to the road, rather than your cell phone, the car radio, the cloud shaped like a Pizza, or some other stupid obstacle that deters you from focusing on the cars around you and the surroundings. Duval Road is an easy speed trap, cause you know that if you see someone atop OWENS ROAD (The overpass before Duval Road, heading Southbound), you can be pretty sure there is a speed trap coming. Same thing with the FHP who sit off to the side around 95/10, but then again, does one really need to go 100 when travelling around Jacksonville?

JIA vs Hartsfield/Jackson - You can walk to your gate in JIA with relative ease, more open are the gates with the skylights (that leak too), but when you are in Atlanta, there is MUCH more to do outside of the gates and security is pretty good and quick in both. Most I've waiting in Jax was 20 minutes during a holiday season, no big deal, that's why you get there 1-2 hours before your flight, and free wi-fi is great at JIA. Nicer and newer than Atlanta's, but you can go more places when you are in Atlanta, so there are trade-offs.

The Brick in Avondale is about to become the most bland & boring of places to eat in Avondale. They were the first and have done very little to change their menu since they opened. With Seafood, BBQ, Bistro, Sushi, (pizza) and Middle Eastern there, it will be interesting to see how they can last as the boring Brick. Maybe on your  next trip, we will see if they have changed since then. Even the American Roadhouse in Atlanta had to change, on Highland Avenue.

[ChriswUfGator]

The problems with the Ortega bridge aren't the bridge, they already replaced all the machinery and most of the rebar in it, and after all that money somehow it breaks more now than it did before. We're stuck in another one of these typical Jacksonville things where the contractor screws us repeatedly, and gets away with it repeatedly, and we still let it slide. It's like Veterans Arena, you've got pieces falling off a $100mm building, and after all this time all they've managed to make Turner do about it is to run to their engineer and get a second opinion disagreeing on how there aren't 'really' any defects they should have to fix.

I could go on with my list of Jacksonville contracting debacles, I am not sure why we never seem to do anything about it. If this were a contractor doing work on someone's house, they wouldn't get away with it, they'd be sued and forced to make it right. COJ doesn't seem to draw any boundaries with these guys, they just get walked over.

[mtraininjax]

Ortega bridge

FDOT is in charge of the bridge repairs, if I remember correctly. Not everything is COJ's responsibility.

[ChriswUfGator]

Ortega bridge

FDOT is in charge of the bridge repairs, if I remember correctly. Not everything is COJ's responsibility.

Well my apologies, it's the state that's getting ripped off then. The State's as bad as COJ about letting contractors walk all over them. Call me nuts but if you pay millions for work that isn't right from day one, they should be forced to come back and fix it. Not be paid more to fix their own error, or get 543 chances at it. At some stage, you fire the screwups, hire someone else, and then go get your money back from the first guy, like any private person would do. You can't just let it go on forever.

I've seen road resurfacing projects, bridge projects, etc., that are falling apart almost as soon as they're completed, and what usually happens is everybody just suffers with it until it gets redone at additional cost. The small handful of times you see even so much as a polite request that the contractor go do something about it, they usually get the finger and that's the end of it, until we pay to do it over again. Worst part about it is the contractors don't get barred from bidding in the future, there are generally little to no repercussions for them. Most state-level construction contracts even have "damages for delay" provisions, but I can count on one hand how many times I've seen the responsible entity actually enforce them.

Only time I've seen it on a bridge was down in Fort Pierce, the FDOT actually did go after a bridge contractor for the DFD clause, and I think they recovered. But it was ridiculous, the guy was like 2 years behind schedule, it basically takes some kind of total outrage before they do anything about it.

[Lunican]

^ You are assuming the contractors and the boards of the public agencies are two separate groups.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I'm being vague and generic because I don't have any bridge building experience, but in many other fields when someone wants to 'repair' something that is more than just maintenance, you will always end up with these unknowns that either a.) Drive the cost up exponentially, b.)  Drive the required completion time, c.)  all of the above.  In most cases, it ends up being 'c'.

Again, vague on purpose:  General road maintenance finds that the support structure is damaged.  RFP for fixing the damaged supports is awarded to lowest bid.  The more structure that's removed, then more damage is found.  Not to mention the collateral damage incurred through construction methods alone.  So instead of the budgeted $4M and 18 months for what appeared to be simple support repairs, the contractor submits a change order for 4 times the original cost at 3x the amount of time required and essentially wants to build a new bridge because they found damage in the piers, pilings, issues at the bedrock, etc....  The 'just make it work with what you've got' clause goes into effect, and you end up with a poor job.

[simms3]

The parts for the Ortega Bridge are no longer manufactured and a company in Chicago has to make them from scratch.  That's what I've heard, but it doesn't make the extended and repeated closures less frustrating.

[cityimrov]

Ortega bridge

FDOT is in charge of the bridge repairs, if I remember correctly. Not everything is COJ's responsibility.

Well my apologies, it's the state that's getting ripped off then. The State's as bad as COJ about letting contractors walk all over them. Call me nuts but if you pay millions for work that isn't right from day one, they should be forced to come back and fix it. Not be paid more to fix their own error, or get 543 chances at it. At some stage, you fire the screwups, hire someone else, and then go get your money back from the first guy, like any private person would do. You can't just let it go on forever.

I've seen road resurfacing projects, bridge projects, etc., that are falling apart almost as soon as they're completed, and what usually happens is everybody just suffers with it until it gets redone at additional cost. The small handful of times you see even so much as a polite request that the contractor go do something about it, they usually get the finger and that's the end of it, until we pay to do it over again. Worst part about it is the contractors don't get barred from bidding in the future, there are generally little to no repercussions for them. Most state-level construction contracts even have "damages for delay" provisions, but I can count on one hand how many times I've seen the responsible entity actually enforce them.

Only time I've seen it on a bridge was down in Fort Pierce, the FDOT actually did go after a bridge contractor for the DFD clause, and I think they recovered. But it was ridiculous, the guy was like 2 years behind schedule, it basically takes some kind of total outrage before they do anything about it.

This isn't just construction, it's penetrating all parts of the government.  For example, in military acquisitions, there are some contractors who send parts that are barely functional (sometimes not even that) and the acquisition agent can't do a single thing about it other than order the same part from the same manufacturer until they get a working one.  If they try to do something about it, people start complaining about "destroying jobs". 

The parts for the Ortega Bridge are no longer manufactured and a company in Chicago has to make them from scratch.  That's what I've heard, but it doesn't make the extended and repeated closures less frustrating.

Think of it this way, at least those people in Chicago can have jobs and thus reduce the unemployment rate.  The broken Ortega Bridge supports companies and families who also have mouths to feed.   The more often the Ortega Bridge is broken, the more often we are supporting the companies who employ our citizens! 

The last thing our local economy needs is a courthouse that never leaked or never needs to be repaired or even rebuilt.  Think about all those lost construction jobs!  At least we're resurfacing our major roads like Roosevelt Blvd with asphalt instead of concrete.   This way we can do it again in 5 years instead of 30!

[Tacachale]

How meta- "government incompetence as jobs program".

[mtraininjax]

At least we're resurfacing our major roads like Roosevelt Blvd with asphalt instead of concrete.

Are you sure? Maybe I am being dense, but it looks like crete not asphalt. They don't come back and smooth out asphalt, do they? I sure hope that's not asphalt on I-95 South near JTB, you crack your teeth on that stuff.

The detour around the bridge is not worth the added expense of building a foundry to make parts once every 5 years.  I'd rather have a true manufacturing city make them anyway, allows us to defer liability to someone else. Eddie and Chuck would agree.

[WmNussbaum]

I can't believe no one commented on Ron Chamblin's tale of the pneumatic tube for prisoners. That's a good one - reminds me of a shtick on the Johnny Carson Show. He had an engineer on who was designing a cross-America Canal, coming down the Mississippi and then being dug across the continent to the Pacific. He had charts, graphs, and engineering studies for all to see and explained them in detail. Then Carson says, "That's magnificent, but how are you going to handle the Rocky Mountains." The engineer looks a bit puzzled and says, "The what???" A total put-on and nicely done.

Chamblin also makes another point that should be discussed further: What is "downtown"? For a population the size of ours, we have a disproportionately large downtown if "downtown" goes from the Shipyards to the Convention Center and from Southbank to City Hall. Downtown Vision has its definition of the area, perhaps MJ should come up with one too.

[Know Growth]

Downtown Vision has its definition of the area, perhaps MJ should come up with one too.

Why not West to Roosevelt Blvd,South to St.Johns Avenue

[ronchamblin]

That's okay WmNuss.  Nobody wanted to engage my foolishness, and I can't blame them.  There is work to do, and more serious stuff to talk about.  BTW, the borders of the downtown have been discussed on earlier threads.  It seems that most of us agree with the borders suggested by DVI.  I don't have a map right handy, but I suspect that there is one somewhere on the MJ history.  Seems like most have the southern border being the river, the northern being perhaps Union Street.  Then on the east is perhaps Liberty Street, and the west is Broad maybe.

[Timkin]

At least we're resurfacing our major roads like Roosevelt Blvd with asphalt instead of concrete.

Are you sure? Maybe I am being dense, but it looks like crete not asphalt. They don't come back and smooth out asphalt, do they? I sure hope that's not asphalt on I-95 South near JTB, you crack your teeth on that stuff.

The detour around the bridge is not worth the added expense of building a foundry to make parts once every 5 years.  I'd rather have a true manufacturing city make them anyway, allows us to defer liability to someone else. Eddie and Chuck would agree.

Agree.. the stretch of Roosevelt from San Juan to I-10 is all concrete.. some places have been re poured and all of it has been resurfaced..sort of shaved off of the top of the concrete making it smooth to drive on again...done a nice job with it so far.

[I-10east]

I never thought the courthouse looked bad.

+1

It was gonna get criticized by most no matter what, because it went over-budget. I betcha if any of those others plans came to life, and was over budget, people still would come up with 'trendy' put-down terms; The place the Peyton Built, Taj Mahal, blah blah blah. I don't think that it's nearly as bad as many are making it out to be. I laugh at some of the examples posted in the past of other cities Courthouses' that supposed are better than ours; For example, Charlotte has a monstrosity. I predict that the area around the courthouse will get built up with possible relocated bail bondsmen offices' etc. watch.