Observations from last visit in Jax

[simms3]

I've been in Jacksonville for the past few days and even met with a poster.  Here are some observations:

1) Orsay is seriously one of the best restaurants I have ever eaten at.  I have eaten there a few times, and each time the drinks are very good, the food is excellent, the service is top notch and the atmosphere is great.  Jonathan Insetta and his team of chefs and managers really know what they are doing!!!  Can't wait for his new restaurant.

2) Ate at Pele's and it was my first time.  Loved the atmosphere, the bar was good, loved the neighborhood feel of it and what they have done to the interior.  I thought the food was good and the service was great for a pizza place.  Would definitely take out of town guests there for cocktails and a later dinner (but was disappointed that on a Friday night it was crowded at 7-8:30 and then kind of started emptying out despite it being open late).

3) I have now tried almost all of the brews in Jax, and generally speaking I like Bold City's the best but I hear Intuition is more fun to go to.

4) Spent a day in Bold Bean working.  Definitely a great and bustling little place.  Lots of ideas being thrown around and it is hipster central over in that area.  Bakery Moderne - also really really good.  That whole strip needs to be replicated as many times over as possible because it is definitely a shining beacon of coolness and activity in a town with a horrible suburban reputation.

5) Mojos is the new Monty's.  Loved the $7 top shelf bourbons (can't believe everyone who lives in Jax thinks it's overpriced!!! and I heard people tell me they thought Pele's was overpriced, too!!! WTF).  I thought Mojos was trying too hard, though.  Loved the patio, but the interior was just too clean and contrived for an "urban whiskey bar".

6) The Ortega Bridge has been closed the last 3 times I have been in town, and I don't come often.  That's pretty bad.

7) Lots of young people and first time homebuyers in Riverside-Avondale, but had another conversation with a few people and the Southside is still the big draw for out of towners and young professionals.  People kind of consider the Town Center the real center of town.  Noticed a banner on one of those crappy frame apts along JTB that said "You could be home by now", referring to the traffic heading "back into town" from the new downtown of Gate Parkway.

Yum Yum Tree has the best chicken salad in town.

9) The Southside is landscaped ok and looks nice.  Would be a draw for me if I were relocating from a crowded overpriced city.

10) I would consider the intown neighborhoods over the Southside if people took freaking care of their houses and there weren't weeds growing EVERYWHERE.  This is a big problem I think.  Sure there are cool spots and cool things opening up in places, but the whole area still looks kind of ghetto, and in fact would probably be considered ghetto in some other cities.

11) The courthouse is just the ugliest thing I have ever seen in my life.

12) There are no cabs anywhere.  I saw one cab in Avondale during two nights of going to bars there.  One.  Nobody in Avondale that I could tell was a DD.  Cops are everywhere along Roosevelt and generally everywhere.  I would be scared as hell to drink and party in Jax.  Why aren't there more cabs?  I understand one would need to call a cab during the day or basically anywhere during the day (they aren't lined up at the airport either), but at night I would expect a line of cabs everywhere there is some concentration of bars.  I guess I have seen them on Bay St, but they must be the only cabs in town.

13) It takes me less time to get through security at Hartsfield, the world's busiest, than JIA, but JIA is a prettier airport and overall is so small it doesn't matter how slow security is.

14) Once again, the drive into town along 95 is dismal.  It's just so bad for first impressions.  It plays into every stereotype and preconceived notion anyone visiting the city might have.  That's not good for business.

15) It's even worse that one of the largest speed traps in the city is every day along Duval Dr once you leave the airport.  Have never flown in and not seen 1-3 cars pulled over not half of a mile from the airport entrance.  Also not a good first impression for visitors and the easiest thing in the world to fix.

16) Overall I think there are real positive things going on between Riverside and Avondale.  People are really in tune with the neighborhoods and all that is going on.  Everyone is "supporting local", etc etc.  I have heard that San Marco has deteriorated somewhat and it kind of appears that way.  I wish we could translate all the good happening in Avondale-Riverside to downtown, and then maybe that would be the glue that would hold the city and its neighborhoods together and ensure that all the neighborhoods grow and thrive and improve together.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Interesting the airport comment, b/c I hate ATL airport and I always have had no problems getting in and out of JIA unlike every visit to Hartsfield. Difficult to believe you couldn't get through JIA quicker than Hartsfield, but anythings possible once.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I thought the air smelled of superiority the last day or two.  Really glad we had a strong western breeze.

[thelakelander]

LOL on the courthouse comment.  I don't think I've heard one person think that it didn't look ugly or was completely out of scale. 

[Timkin]

The Courthouse is in fact ugly on a Monumental Scale of Global proportion , and that is the nicest thing I could think of to say for it.

Simms .. The Ortega Bridge I think has to have some pretty extensive work done on it.  I think it was going to be closed for quite some time.

[ronchamblin]

It is sorta big.  I suppose the powers in the area expect lots of court projects, lots of crime projects, lots of control over people who need controlling.  I suppose it's a money maker for the area.  It better be.  We've gotta pay for it.  It concentrates in one building the overwhelming legal expertise we've all been accustomed to.  It exudes power.  It exudes expense, and money, and comfort for those those within. 

We are seeing a ring around the city of big institutional structures.  We've got the jail in the east, FSCJ, FBC, city hall and JEA on the north, and the federal and county courthouses in the west.  Looks like the FSCJ and FBC are the largest land users, followed by the courthouses, the jail, then city hall, then JEA. 

Thank goodness Maxwell house is there to balance it out somewhat.  They don't prosecute or incarcerate anybody, but only produce stuff to make people wake up and think straight.  If they can't think straight with coffee, then FSCJ and the FBC are there to urge thinking the right way too.  If that doesn't work then they go straight to jail, then back and forth between the jail and the courthouse to see whether they get set free or go to the big house. 

I wonder if the underground tunnel is still in the works, the one between the new courthouse and the jail?  It's supposed to be a single occupant transfer system, working like the canister and tubes at outside bank tellers, and it too is run by air pressure.  The prisoner, one per canister, is to be sucked, or blown, back and forth underground between the jail and the courthouse.  The design I saw limited the prisoner weight to about 300 pounds.  Otherwise he or she will have to be transferred by van.  It was a custom design, submitted by Reynold, Smith and Hills here in Jax, but similar in design to a system used in Chicago or ??.  The route I saw on preliminary drawings was down Monroe street.  Reminded me of a subway route.  Being much smaller however, carrying only one individual, the construction will not be as disruptive; that is, if it is actually built. 

Oh yea, the tunnell is to be dug by a machine they call a mole.  It will be deeper than a subway so that it will be below the various utilities in the area.  That's why it has become a feasible project.  Imagine negotiating around all the utilities in the area?

[duvaldude08]

LOL on the courthouse comment.  I don't think I've heard one person think that it didn't look ugly or was completely out of scale.

The courthouse is "Peyton's Place". If I recall they were going to go vertical, and when peyton got in office they completey changed everything. Does anybody know what the Original design of the courthouse was? Pictures maybe?

[Anti redneck]

LOL on the courthouse comment.  I don't think I've heard one person think that it didn't look ugly or was completely out of scale.

The courthouse is "Peyton's Place". If I recall they were going to go vertical, and when peyton got in office they completey changed everything. Does anybody know what the Original design of the courthouse was? Pictures maybe?

I never thought the courthouse looked bad.

[Timkin]

LOL on the courthouse comment.  I don't think I've heard one person think that it didn't look ugly or was completely out of scale.

The courthouse is "Peyton's Place". If I recall they were going to go vertical, and when peyton got in office they completey changed everything. Does anybody know what the Original design of the courthouse was? Pictures maybe?

Used more Gate Concrete building that god awful monster the way it is.

[Adam W]

I've been in Jacksonville for the past few days and even met with a poster.  Here are some observations:

1) Orsay is seriously one of the best restaurants I have ever eaten at.  I have eaten there a few times, and each time the drinks are very good, the food is excellent, the service is top notch and the atmosphere is great.  Jonathan Insetta and his team of chefs and managers really know what they are doing!!!  Can't wait for his new restaurant.

2) Ate at Pele's and it was my first time.  Loved the atmosphere, the bar was good, loved the neighborhood feel of it and what they have done to the interior.  I thought the food was good and the service was great for a pizza place.  Would definitely take out of town guests there for cocktails and a later dinner (but was disappointed that on a Friday night it was crowded at 7-8:30 and then kind of started emptying out despite it being open late).

3) I have now tried almost all of the brews in Jax, and generally speaking I like Bold City's the best but I hear Intuition is more fun to go to.

4) Spent a day in Bold Bean working.  Definitely a great and bustling little place.  Lots of ideas being thrown around and it is hipster central over in that area.  Bakery Moderne - also really really good.  That whole strip needs to be replicated as many times over as possible because it is definitely a shining beacon of coolness and activity in a town with a horrible suburban reputation.

5) Mojos is the new Monty's.  Loved the $7 top shelf bourbons (can't believe everyone who lives in Jax thinks it's overpriced!!! and I heard people tell me they thought Pele's was overpriced, too!!! WTF).  I thought Mojos was trying too hard, though.  Loved the patio, but the interior was just too clean and contrived for an "urban whiskey bar".

6) The Ortega Bridge has been closed the last 3 times I have been in town, and I don't come often.  That's pretty bad.

7) Lots of young people and first time homebuyers in Riverside-Avondale, but had another conversation with a few people and the Southside is still the big draw for out of towners and young professionals.  People kind of consider the Town Center the real center of town.  Noticed a banner on one of those crappy frame apts along JTB that said "You could be home by now", referring to the traffic heading "back into town" from the new downtown of Gate Parkway.

Yum Yum Tree has the best chicken salad in town.

9) The Southside is landscaped ok and looks nice.  Would be a draw for me if I were relocating from a crowded overpriced city.

10) I would consider the intown neighborhoods over the Southside if people took freaking care of their houses and there weren't weeds growing EVERYWHERE.  This is a big problem I think.  Sure there are cool spots and cool things opening up in places, but the whole area still looks kind of ghetto, and in fact would probably be considered ghetto in some other cities.

11) The courthouse is just the ugliest thing I have ever seen in my life.

12) There are no cabs anywhere.  I saw one cab in Avondale during two nights of going to bars there.  One.  Nobody in Avondale that I could tell was a DD.  Cops are everywhere along Roosevelt and generally everywhere.  I would be scared as hell to drink and party in Jax.  Why aren't there more cabs?  I understand one would need to call a cab during the day or basically anywhere during the day (they aren't lined up at the airport either), but at night I would expect a line of cabs everywhere there is some concentration of bars.  I guess I have seen them on Bay St, but they must be the only cabs in town.

13) It takes me less time to get through security at Hartsfield, the world's busiest, than JIA, but JIA is a prettier airport and overall is so small it doesn't matter how slow security is.

14) Once again, the drive into town along 95 is dismal.  It's just so bad for first impressions.  It plays into every stereotype and preconceived notion anyone visiting the city might have.  That's not good for business.

15) It's even worse that one of the largest speed traps in the city is every day along Duval Dr once you leave the airport.  Have never flown in and not seen 1-3 cars pulled over not half of a mile from the airport entrance.  Also not a good first impression for visitors and the easiest thing in the world to fix.

16) Overall I think there are real positive things going on between Riverside and Avondale.  People are really in tune with the neighborhoods and all that is going on.  Everyone is "supporting local", etc etc.  I have heard that San Marco has deteriorated somewhat and it kind of appears that way.  I wish we could translate all the good happening in Avondale-Riverside to downtown, and then maybe that would be the glue that would hold the city and its neighborhoods together and ensure that all the neighborhoods grow and thrive and improve together.

I agree about the court house - if it needed to be that large, they could've at least gone with an interesting design. I know the powers that be in Jax are a bit wary of 'modern' architecture (lest they be stuck with another Haydon Burns library), but really.... there must be some happy medium. I think this garish neoclassical stuff (or is it neo-neoclassical?) is boring and ugly. The court house borders on Stalinist.

I can't really compare JIA and Atlanta, but I think JIA is one of the easiest to go in and out of. I would fly there more if I could get a direct flight. It may not be the most exciting airport, but it's easy to use.

I wouldn't call Orsay 'bad,' but it's far from being one of the best restaurants I've ever eaten in. I've had better French food in greater Jacksonville in the past. I have a few friends who work there and I do think the service is pretty good - though I cringe when they mangle the names of the whiskys.

One of my big problems with Jax nightlife is that it basically encourages drunk driving. I know I did it more than my fair share of times in the past (and am ashamed to admit it). Even if there were cabs about, I would be curious to see if people used them. But I agree about their scarcity.

[thelakelander]

LOL on the courthouse comment.  I don't think I've heard one person think that it didn't look ugly or was completely out of scale.

The courthouse is "Peyton's Place". If I recall they were going to go vertical, and when peyton got in office they completey changed everything. Does anybody know what the Original design of the courthouse was? Pictures maybe?

Here was the original Cannon designed Duval County Courthouse building:




KBJ, the firm who designed the present version, came in second with this design:




At one time, the plan was to build a 15-story courthouse about that concept died when Auchter Construction went belly up in 2007.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=891.0

[Noone]

simms3, Some great observations. Agree about the airport speed traps. Have done a fare share of drop off and pick ups and you do need to give yourself some time to get there. An accident somewhere in Jax and just like that you are scrambling now not to miss a flight. You jump off the interstate and its an adjustment to immediately cut your speed in half if you are about to miss your plane.

[jcjohnpaint]

The original courthouse concept was gorgeous.  What a shame.  Thanks for posing all this Simms.  I agree about 95 coming south, but I don't think the boringness of south Georgia really helps matters. 

[ben says]

I've been in Jacksonville for the past few days and even met with a poster.  Here are some observations:

1) Orsay is seriously one of the best restaurants I have ever eaten at.  I have eaten there a few times, and each time the drinks are very good, the food is excellent, the service is top notch and the atmosphere is great.  Jonathan Insetta and his team of chefs and managers really know what they are doing!!!  Can't wait for his new restaurant.

2) Ate at Pele's and it was my first time.  Loved the atmosphere, the bar was good, loved the neighborhood feel of it and what they have done to the interior.  I thought the food was good and the service was great for a pizza place.  Would definitely take out of town guests there for cocktails and a later dinner (but was disappointed that on a Friday night it was crowded at 7-8:30 and then kind of started emptying out despite it being open late).

3) I have now tried almost all of the brews in Jax, and generally speaking I like Bold City's the best but I hear Intuition is more fun to go to.

4) Spent a day in Bold Bean working.  Definitely a great and bustling little place.  Lots of ideas being thrown around and it is hipster central over in that area.  Bakery Moderne - also really really good.  That whole strip needs to be replicated as many times over as possible because it is definitely a shining beacon of coolness and activity in a town with a horrible suburban reputation.

5) Mojos is the new Monty's.  Loved the $7 top shelf bourbons (can't believe everyone who lives in Jax thinks it's overpriced!!! and I heard people tell me they thought Pele's was overpriced, too!!! WTF).  I thought Mojos was trying too hard, though.  Loved the patio, but the interior was just too clean and contrived for an "urban whiskey bar".

6) The Ortega Bridge has been closed the last 3 times I have been in town, and I don't come often.  That's pretty bad.

7) Lots of young people and first time homebuyers in Riverside-Avondale, but had another conversation with a few people and the Southside is still the big draw for out of towners and young professionals.  People kind of consider the Town Center the real center of town.  Noticed a banner on one of those crappy frame apts along JTB that said "You could be home by now", referring to the traffic heading "back into town" from the new downtown of Gate Parkway.

Yum Yum Tree has the best chicken salad in town.

9) The Southside is landscaped ok and looks nice.  Would be a draw for me if I were relocating from a crowded overpriced city.

10) I would consider the intown neighborhoods over the Southside if people took freaking care of their houses and there weren't weeds growing EVERYWHERE.  This is a big problem I think.  Sure there are cool spots and cool things opening up in places, but the whole area still looks kind of ghetto, and in fact would probably be considered ghetto in some other cities.

11) The courthouse is just the ugliest thing I have ever seen in my life.

12) There are no cabs anywhere.  I saw one cab in Avondale during two nights of going to bars there.  One.  Nobody in Avondale that I could tell was a DD.  Cops are everywhere along Roosevelt and generally everywhere.  I would be scared as hell to drink and party in Jax.  Why aren't there more cabs?  I understand one would need to call a cab during the day or basically anywhere during the day (they aren't lined up at the airport either), but at night I would expect a line of cabs everywhere there is some concentration of bars.  I guess I have seen them on Bay St, but they must be the only cabs in town.

13) It takes me less time to get through security at Hartsfield, the world's busiest, than JIA, but JIA is a prettier airport and overall is so small it doesn't matter how slow security is.

14) Once again, the drive into town along 95 is dismal.  It's just so bad for first impressions.  It plays into every stereotype and preconceived notion anyone visiting the city might have.  That's not good for business.

15) It's even worse that one of the largest speed traps in the city is every day along Duval Dr once you leave the airport.  Have never flown in and not seen 1-3 cars pulled over not half of a mile from the airport entrance.  Also not a good first impression for visitors and the easiest thing in the world to fix.

16) Overall I think there are real positive things going on between Riverside and Avondale.  People are really in tune with the neighborhoods and all that is going on.  Everyone is "supporting local", etc etc.  I have heard that San Marco has deteriorated somewhat and it kind of appears that way.  I wish we could translate all the good happening in Avondale-Riverside to downtown, and then maybe that would be the glue that would hold the city and its neighborhoods together and ensure that all the neighborhoods grow and thrive and improve together.

1-I agree, Orsay is a "best of Jacksonville." As far as French food goes, so is French Pantry. Can't wait until Chew opens up in Five Points.

2-Agree w/ you on Pele's. Albeit, I don't think the food is anything to write home about. Haven't been there late, but I'm wondering if anyone from Kickbacks/Loft/Rogue trickle into Pele's around 11ish? Pizza may be too expensive for that crowd. Too bad.

4-The strip w/ Bakery Moderne, 13 Gypsies, Zen Cog, and Bold Bean, with JG across the street, is the best thing Riverside (And Jax in general) has going for it.

5-I just can't get into the new Mojo's, no matter how hard I try. People seem to like it though, and I guess that's all that matters. The porch is too closed in, and the inside is too clean and well organized to give off that "grungy but awesome whiskey bar" feel. Oh well.

7-My first year in law school, in a class of 70, 69 of them thought that Southside/Tinseltown/Town Center WAS Jacksonville. It wasn't until 8 months in they started to realize there WAS a Riverside. Even then, while they all admitted it was awesome/the most city-like experience here, they were fascinated with the apartment/home "options" the Southside offered.

13-Disagree on JAX for ATL airports. Hartsfield is nothing but a fat headache to me. Love the shopping options and crown rooms, though.

14-I agree that the drive in from 95 isn't anything to write home about. But I don't think this is an exception--I think it's the rule. Ever drive to New Orleans from I-10? ATL from I-20? Denver from I-70? St Louis? KC? I mean...with the exception of Asheville, 9/10 "drive ins", to me, are dismal. Loads of box chains (Home Depots?), project housing, sprawl housing, dated high-rises, old cars, etc. I don't think this is a Jacksonville issue, but an everywhere issue. It's just the way cities happen to sprawl out. It's not like you're going to drive through Avondale via 95...THAT BEING SAID, as I've said on this forum, I think Jax can do a much better job of advertising itself on 95..."Come see our beaches!"..."Come see Historic Avondale/Riverside!"..."Come _____". The fact any roadie can drive through Jax and not know they're passing 5 Points as a stop-off exit is horrendous. Honestly, you wouldn't even know Jax existing if you weren't slapped in the face with downtown.

16- +10000000!!!

[Captain Zissou]

Simms, thanks for the input.  i wish I had known you were in town, we should have grabbed a drink. 

In regards to Pele's and Mojo's.  I get what you are saying.  I have paid far more for far less in other cities, but in Jax it is a different scene.  Here, if you are going to charge more, you have to blow people away with quality.  In a town where you can get a dinner for 2 for $40 or less at almost anywhere, people are reluctant to shell out $80 for a meal.  Orsay has been able to provide the quality that people demand for the higher price, but I don't think Pele's or Mojo's quite hit that mark.  Thus, they get some pretty mixed reviews.

My main complaint with Mojo's is the noise.  They need to throw up some acoustic panels in the ceiling or a few soft surfaces in order to reduce the mess they currently have.  They should also get a set of speakers of their own that they get installed professionally, rather than letter the bands set up however they want.  The band puts up low quality speakers pointed at who knows what, the crowd has to talk over them, all of that audio gets reflected off the floor walls and ceiling, so the band has to turn their speakers louder and the cycle repeats.  Some well placed speakers at a moderate volume and some sound dampening materials in the peripheral areas would make for a much better experience.

I wish every single day that the Ortega bridge was open again.  The first  and last 2 miles of my daily runs are exactly the same because I have to go over the Roosevelt bridge to get into and out of Ortega where I love to run.