Revisiting the Saints Bounty Scandal

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

If you're following the NFL at all, it's one of the bigger stories since Spygate and Brett Favre retiring (and unretiring and re-retiring and re-un-retiring... well you get the picture).

Well since the original story broke and punishments were handed down, there's been discussion over the severity of the punishments for the coaches either directly or indirectly involved.  What's going to happen to the players?  Will there be actual (meaning outside of the NFL) legal ramifications?  And, most importantly, when will the next shoe drop.  It dropped yesterday in the form of some damning video evidence in which a coach is actually telling his players to attack certain opponents in the upcoming game.

Most people find this disgusting, loathsome, revolting, and many, many other adjectives used to describe 'bad'.  And this brings me to my main point: 

Why should the coach refrain from coaching his players to attack the other team's weaknesses?

The NFL requires teams to reveal their injuries in the weekly injury report, and as an opposing coach, you're damn right I'm using that report to find weaknesses on the other team or else I'm not doing everything in my ability to win a football game.  Take this quote from William, “We need to find out in the first two series of the game, the little wide receiver, No. 10, about his concussion,” Gregg Williams told his players about Kyle Williams. “We need to [expletive] put a lick on him, move him to decide. He needs to decide.”  If Kyle was listed on the injury report about having concussions, why not make an attempt to hit him a little higher (Legally)?  It worked for the Giants. 

I guess that I see the media spinning and ex-jockey analysts spinning and bloggers and opposing players and it's just like a big, damn washing machine stuck on spin cycle.  If the NFL really wanted to help prevent injuries, then they would require and injury report.  All it does is let the opposition know if you're star running back has a knee tweak - guess where they're going to aim? 

Will the NFL modify thier policy to prevent opposing teams from 'knowing' and not guessing who's hurt and where?  Probably not.  That would be the same as them stepping up and saying we were enabling G. Williams, and that would be accepting responsibilty for his actions.  It's not going to happen.  What is going to happen is further scrutiny and more punishments for hit that are deemed 'too' violent.  Which, to me, is like telling your 16 year old son, "Go out, have a good time with your GF, here's some condoms to use if you want to, but don't get her too pregnant."

[duvaldude08]

Well I am all over the place with this. But the one fact that remains is.. They were wrong. I dont see how saints fans are whinning like 2 year olds about the punishments. I mean c'mon the state of lousiana is now having their opinon on it? THEY WERE WRONG. They admitted they were wrong. They were told to stop, lied about it and kept doing. You break rules, you get punished. Had they stopped when they were warned, none of this would even be happening.

PS. I think the players union is getting out of hand talking about legal charges. That is over the top. Let Goodell handle it.

[BridgeTroll]

The times they are a changin... I forget who said that...(Lombardi? )  With concussions on the rise... the NFL changed the rules to reduce them.  With unprotected QBs getting clobbered... they changed the rules to protect them.  With WRs getting nearly killed going over the middle, extended and unprotected... they changed the rules to protect them.  Now that former players are now suing the NFL for their past injuries ... the NFL needs to do something.

The NFL cannot condone or let management (ie coaches and ownership) encourage the injury of the players.  The NFLPA cannot condone or let management encourage the injury of the players.  Goodell cannot let the teams openly ignore and lie to the NFL.  The punishments are certainly harsh... but they were needed.

That said... I hate the "wussification" that is occurring.  Not a fan of some of the penalties regarding roughing and the like.  But... if we want to protect the players from serious and intentional injury... this has to happen.

[mtraininjax]

I can't wait to see the NFL Players who proceed with a civil matter against the Saints and see how much they can collect based on what was said and then how the players proceeded in the games. As Warner Wolf always states: "Let's go to the video tape".

[Ajax]

I'm not crazy about the wussification of the NFL either, but this is just cowardly.  Williams wasn't the one out there risking his neck/ankle/ACL.  You're talking about people's livelihoods.  Most people are focusing on the stars who could have gotten hurt - Alex Smith and Michael Crabtree.  But really, those guys got their big signing bonuses and even if their careers had ended, they would have been better off than most of us.  But what about the undrafted 2nd year guy who was playing for the league minimum?  How many guys have you seen go on the injured reserve list, only to be working for UPS a year later?  There's no telling how many guys could have hung around long enough to get their NFL pension, but they couldn't stick around long enough because of some cheap shot.  Williams is a piece of garbage. 

Besides, when you're trying to tackle a guy - who has time to try and focus on one particular part of the body?  Unless the guy is being held up by someone else.  Which is again - cowardly.  Yes, hits are a part of the game and I get just as excited as the next guy when I see a good, clean hit.  But I can't stand seeing crack-back blocks and nonsense like that.  And I don't see anything good about seeing your opponent go out of the game with a torn ACL - it's horrible.  I don't want my team to win a game by knocking the other team's best player out.  I would rather beat them with all their best guys on the field so there are no excuses. 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

You don't have to like the ACL comment, neither do I, but wasn't Crabtree listed on the Injury Report with a knee issue?  Williams was known to have had concussions.  It's legal to hit RBs in the head, hence the Frank Gore comment.  Hitting A. Smith in the chin would be a penalty, but that's because the NFL has essentially legislated out of hitting the QB anywhere but the midsection.  Head shots on WRs are also a no-no now, so guys will be aiming at the knees instead.

Point is, while the NFL says they are doing this for 'player safety', I truly believe that they are changing these rules to prevent future litigation and to ultimately protect 'The Sheild' at the expense of the game itself.  But I believe that Bountygate is like the drunk aunt that no one wants to acknowledge, and now that it's out for all to see, they are cutting ties.  Gregg Williams is expendable.  I said it before Goodell laid down the law that he would be gone for good, and this tape that was leaked, IMO, will guarantee that - for no other reason that to the general public, the comments he made in that locker room were grotesque, I heard similar speeches in high school, but perception is everything and the league is taking their stand.

And my other problem, aside from the biased journalism (if you can call it that), is with the ex-player analysts coming in with thier 'opinion'.  Really Sapp?!?  Abhored?  I'm sure you heard worse from Chucky when you were playing with the Bucs.  How about your getting ejected from the Jags / Raiders game in '06 (I think).  Wasn't that an awesome display of sportsmanship. 

[Intuition Ale Works]

Word on the street is that Kurt Warner is going to sue the pants off of the Saints players, coaches and management.

The hit in the below video ended his career.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC1T1tAbA4s

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Word on the street is that Kurt Warner is going to sue the pants off of the Saints players, coaches and management.

The hit in the below video ended his career.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC1T1tAbA4s

[shrugs shoulders] He looked like he was trying to make a tackle to me, and he was blocked cleanly.  As a matter of fact, the competition committe ruled in favor of not making the QB untouchable on an INT, if he doesn't want to take a flagrant hit,  he has to remove himself from the play, ie run the other way to not get hit - even then he's not off limits, but the hit would draw an UC - which is 15 yds from the spot of the foul.

One idea that is tabled for discussion is having quarterbacks basically be "off-limits" during a turnover in an attempt to avoid a major unnecessary hit. The exception to this would be if they are actually involved in a tackle.

So good luck, Mr. Warner.  Your union says it's OK and your boss says it's OK,  but when in doubt, litigate.

[BridgeTroll]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/02/four-saints-suspended-vilma-for-all-of-2012/

Four Saints suspended, Vilma for all of 2012
Posted by Michael David Smith on May 2, 2012, 11:57 AM EDT

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has lowered the hammer on four New Orleans Saints players who were involved in the team’s bounty scandal, with Jonathan Vilma leading the way and getting one of the most significant suspensions in NFL history.

Vilma has been banished for all of 2012, effective immediately and through the Super Bowl, for his role in the bounty scandal. Vilma reportedly put $10,000 cash on the table in the team’s meeting room and said the cash would go to anyone who could knock Brett Favre out of the NFC Championship Game in January of 2010.

Anthony Hargrove was given an eight-game suspension after the NFL said that he, too, targeted Favre in the NFC Championship Game. The NFL says that Hargrove eventually admitted his role in the team’s bounty program, but that at first “Hargrove also actively obstructed the league’s 2010 investigation into the program by being untruthful to investigators.”

Will Smith was suspended four games. The NFL says he worked with former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams in setting up the bounty program.

Browns linebacker Scott Fujita is no longer in New Orleans, but he was given a three-game suspension for his role in the bounty program when he played for the team.

“It is the obligation of everyone, including the players on the field, to ensure that rules designed to promote player safety, fair play, and the integrity of the game are adhered to and effectively and consistently enforced,” Goodell said in the league’s statement. “Respect for the men that play the game starts with the way players conduct themselves with each other on the field.”

Goodell has said he believes players were not just participants at the behest of Williams, but were actively encouraging and celebrating the bounties. The NFL Players’ Association has signaled that it does not agree with Goodell’s assessment. Vilma, Hargrove, Smith and Fujita all have the right to appeal.

   

[duvaldude08]

The saints have started a complete diaster. And now the "eavesdropping" thing has surfaced. What would bother me as a Saints fan is that just about the entire coaching staff has admited the bounties and the players have not and refuse too. And even Drew Brees is defending them. Not to mention the players union is defending them and they should be the ones against it!! This is a complete mess. If I were drew, I would remain netueral. If the rules were broken Im not taking up for those idiots.