Redeveloping Hemming Plaza

[Metro Jacksonville]

Redeveloping Hemming Plaza



In 2005, Metro Jacksonville pointed out to the JEDC and Peyton Administration why the Main Street Pocket Park would struggle to succeed if built.  We were ignored and $800,000 later, the chickens eventually came home to roost as our warnings became reality.  Now a City Council committee is in search of recommendations to improve Hemming Plaza.  Today, we share our concerns with the improvement recommendations of the Hemming Plaza sub committee and ponder if there are more affordable and efficient methods to make Hemming Plaza the vibrant place it once was.



Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-apr-redeveloping-hemming-plaza

[ronchamblin]

When I see decisions made such as we see now about the park, when money is set for spending when there really is none, when the fundamental amenities such as trees are being removed, and all this clearly against a survey’s results, I begin to wonder why and how this kind of thing can happen.

Surely there are some aspects about which I am ignorant.  Perhaps the earlier money spent on the engineering of the park, even though offering unsound advice or an unworkable plan, is being implemented anyway just so that the money spent on the engineering will not be wasted.

I sense that decisions were made before the meetings, outside of them, or that someone or some group, has made the decisions according to their own motives, and that the meetings were held, and the surveys worked through, to give legitimacy to the whole process. 

[ChriswUfGator]

Sh!t for $25k I'll go down there with my ratchet set and remove the existing seats myself. Wouldn't take more than a day and renting a Uhaul. And you'd get another few hundred in scrap. Where do they get these kind of bids? That's insane.

[simms3]

Love the effort, but as Ron Chamblin said, looks like some surveyed suggestions were ignored?  The annual maintenance/improvement costs "allowing" other businesses, MOCA, the library, artists and food trucks to use the space seems about right.

Is it possible to get rid of pavers and put in grass?  If they are going to remove some trees, which seems to be a siginificant amount for 1.5 AC, then they shouldn't leave those ugly brick pavers exposed to the hot sun.

Also, I like the idea of removable tables and chairs.  In our developments and I believe in random general surveys, people like the idea of being in control of where they sit, how they sit, the configuration, etc.  Even if they are heavy and can only easily be moved a few inches this way or that, I think people like the fact that if they sit down, they can be in charge of where and how.  Now the timing is weird - only allowed to sit between 10:00 and 2:00?  How are they going to manage that?  Restaurants with outdoors seating where I live have tie downs for their sidewalk furniture that they attach at night to prevent theft, so that is definitely a maintenance issue there.

Finally, there aren't very many colors in that area.  I like the idea of adopting planters.  My mother is active in the local Garden Club (she has helped put together the Root Ball numerous times I believe), so I bet she would be thrilled at the idea of planters downtown.  I imagine this could be the cheapest impactful fix?  I love walking around my neighb this time of year - there are flower arrangements and pocket gardens in full bloom everywhere, smells and sights abound.  Colors do wonder to perk up an area and make it more inviting.

[dougskiles]

1. It is HOT in Jacksonville - anyone notice?  It is early April and already pushing 90 degrees!!!  Cutting down perfectly healthy shade trees is mind numbingly absurd.  Let me guess - someone will suggest we replace them with sable palms?

2. Is there really a safety problem in Hemming Plaza - or the perception of a safety problem?  I walk through the park at least 4 times a week.  I smile and waive to the people on the benches.  They smile and waive back.  With more people in the park, I honestly believe they will mix in and rarely be noticed.

3. Before we spend any money, it would be nice to try for at least six months to see what would happen if we eliminated all of the restrictions regarding vendors (I.e. food trucks) and see what happens. Turn it over to the people.  When JTA made the skyway free, the ridership doubled.  Is there a lesson there that can be applied to Hemming?

[thelakelander]

I like the Garden Club idea as well.  I don't know why it can't be done right now without spending a dime on anything else.  Also, the idea of moveable chairs in urban parks is a good one in general terms when designed within the concept of flexible park programming.  However, in this case, that doesn't appear why the extra investment is being recommended and if we're going to rip up the park in less than a year anyway, perhaps nothing short term should be done other than some extra affordable programming concepts. 

I'm also skeptical of the HDR plan and not even for sure if its best to assume that it should be taken to 100% design and built as conceptually proposed.  The park's best amenity is its tree canopy period.  To "flatten" out the park, you're going to have to take out the majority of trees eventually.....diseased or not.

Last, using Manhanttan's Bryant Park as a major case study may be a stretch without studying the entire context.  More important than a park itself is the urban fabric surrounding it (the Outer Square).  What type of planning recommendations does the committee have for improving Hemming Plaza's Outer Square?  You can't successfully enhance this space without dealing with the dead pedestrian zones surrounding it.

[Garden guy]

This council sucks. Good ole conservative republicans have come to rid the city of any thing public...welcome to jax.

[Actionville]

The problem of hemming plaza is not it's design; It's the underlying problem of homelessness downtown. Ripping out beautiful canopy does not address that. Moving the services and jail out of downtown would.

The concern with 'sight lines' is also misguided; you can easily see from one side to the other; this is not a very large park. Thanks for the article.

[thelakelander]

1. It is HOT in Jacksonville - anyone notice?  It is early April and already pushing 90 degrees!!!  Cutting down perfectly healthy shade trees is mind numbingly absurd.  Let me guess - someone will suggest we replace them with sable palms?

Not this time.  It's recommended to replace lost trees with low height growing plants for improving sight lines and better security.

2. Is there really a safety problem in Hemming Plaza - or the perception of a safety problem?  I walk through the park at least 4 times a week.  I smile and waive to the people on the benches.  They smile and waive back.  With more people in the park, I honestly believe they will mix in and rarely be noticed.

3. Before we spend any money, it would be nice to try for at least six months to see what would happen if we eliminated all of the restrictions regarding vendors (I.e. food trucks) and see what happens. Turn it over to the people.  When JTA made the skyway free, the ridership doubled.  Is there a lesson there that can be applied to Hemming?

Great idea. At this point, because the  short and long term timelines are less than six months apart it's probably better to replace the short term capital expenses with additional "trial based" programming.

[acme54321]

Remove the trees?  Seriously?

[thelakelander]

This council sucks. Good ole conservative republicans have come to rid the city of any thing public...welcome to jax.

I don't think you can blame council for the list of recommendations provided to them.  Council is actually trying to improve the park's vitality, which is great.

The problem of hemming plaza is not it's design; It's the underlying problem of homelessness downtown. Ripping out beautiful canopy does not address that. Moving the services and jail out of downtown would.

The concern with 'sight lines' is also misguided; you can easily see from one side to the other; this is not a very large park. Thanks for the article.

No problem, I just wanted to give an update on what was happening.  I do believe that a day center will address a lot of issues regarding homelessness in downtown but that's outside of the scope of what the committee was to address.  Unfortunately, removing and shifting around amenities doesn't address the issues of why the general public doesn't spend as much time in the space.  The survey's results seem to point out that more amenities and programming should be higher priority items to tackle.  Some of the recommendations would not only be a waste at this point, they'd destroy the best remaining elements of the space.

[vicupstate]

It pretty obvious that certain people, Councilwoman Lee, being one of them but perhaps others, had a preconcieved notion of what to do with HP. 

A survey was done to support their game plan and the survey proved how misguided their plan is.  So, they conveniently ignored it for the most part.

[Garden guy]

This council sucks. Good ole conservative republicans have come to rid the city of any thing public...welcome to jax.

I don't think you can blame council for the list of recommendations provided to them.  Council is actually trying to improve the park's vitality, which is great.

The problem of hemming plaza is not it's design; It's the underlying problem of homelessness downtown. Ripping out beautiful canopy does not address that. Moving the services and jail out of downtown would.

The concern with 'sight lines' is also misguided; you can easily see from one side to the other; this is not a very large park. Thanks for the article.

No problem, I just wanted to give an update on what was happening.  I do believe that a day center will address a lot of issues regarding homelessness in downtown but that's outside of the scope of what the committee was to address.  Unfortunately, removing and shifting around amenities doesn't address the issues of why the general public doesn't spend as much time in the space.  The survey's results seem to point out that more amenities and programming should be higher priority items to tackle.  Some of the recommendations would not only be a waste at this point, they'd destroy the best remaining elements of the space.

Improved vitality? really? And removing trees and anywhere to sit is going to improve vitality? What an odd and thoughtlesss approach. Who the *** suggested that to these people?

[thelakelander]

^The city council didn't come up with this list of recommendations that is being presented to them.  A sub-committee of stakeholders was formed (members are listed in the article) to develop a game plan for restoring the park.  I'll agree though, that the list the sub-committee developed would ruin the space if implemented as spelled out in the meeting minutes.

[tufsu1]

This council sucks. Good ole conservative republicans have come to rid the city of any thing public...welcome to jax.

just one problem...this is being lead by CM Lee, a Democrat!