New Orleans Saints Bounty Scandal

[duvaldude08]

I just wanted to get everyone's thougts on this. Personally, I dont think any coaching staff should be enocuraging players to purposely injury anyone. Incentives for a "cart off" hit? Really? Its really not worth the risk. They finally have a good team and now they screw things up with this. Someone could lose their job, players could be suspended, etc. Its already going to be a mess.

Thoughts?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

A few, but I need a real keyboard and not this swype crap.

[duvaldude08]

A few, but I need a real keyboard and not this swype crap.

Sorry to hear that NRW 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

OK.  No more cellphone.

My thoughts are that this is being blown way out of proportion.  That these defensive players are paid a bounty to take the opposing players out of a game when they sign their contracts.  That's their job.

I don't believe that a $5,000 bonus for taking Favre out of the game is any more incentive than a $5 bonus.  Think 'Trading Places'.  The guys in the locker room use it as motivation - too many people are getting worked up over the amount, but it's irrelevant.  Hell, give them helmet stickers - you'll get the same results.

I also don't believe that 99% of these players actually go out to seriously injure one of their own.  It's football.  These are big, strong, fast guys colliding forcefully with other big, strong, fast guys and the only question is when and not if you're going to get busted up.  Does the little bit of extra motivation push some guys to playing 'through' the whistle?  Sure, but that's how they've played their entire careers to get to this point and now they're being told to stop doing what comes naturally.  When I start seeing coaches in Pop Warner or Highschool start coaching kids to only give 85%, you know, just ease up and take it easy on the other guys - don't want anyone getting hurt, then I'll know that I'm seeing the end of football as we know it.   I'm not a big fan of comparing football players to soldiers, but it's the equivalent of telling snipers to hit their target in the thigh - just tap 'em a little so they get the message.

The biggest problem that I see with it is the timing of the reports versus the direction/image that the NFL is trying to move towards.  The last thing that the NFL needs while preaching a message of player safety whille there's pending litigation regarding player safety, is to have a verified report of 'headhunters' trying to take out the opposing teams QB using a bounty system.  It sends a mixed message.  But I think Goodell will be crystal clear on the message he sends when doling out punishment.

I think that if the commish does anything less than ban Williams for life, then he's not sending the correct message.  Since he (Williams) should be financially set based on the millions that he's been payed over the years, and you sit him out for only a year or half-a-year, that's more like a vacation than a punishment.   A life ban from the NFL will guarantee that it doesn't happen again.  I think Loomis and Payton should be gone for at least 1 year for allowing it to happen.  I don't think the players should be punished at all - they weren't doing anything differently from what they have been coached their whole life. 

To sum it up DD, I think players have gotten rewarded for on field stuff their entire careers, whether it be $5 for getting a TD from Mom and Dad, a beer on the bus ride home for destroying a rival from their highschool coach or the envelopes stuffed with $20s that these kids picked up every Saturday night at the Boosters Club.  Their in the big leagues and the reward is that much higher.  It will continue, just in another fashion.  But the league will set precedence with this one and try and further promote their image of safety in an inherently violent game.  You can't have it both ways, but you can try to make an example of someone.

[mtraininjax]

My thoughts are that this is being blown way out of proportion.

+1

[duvaldude08]

I think its a clear difference in playing tough defense, and trying to get someone carted off the field, and possiabley end their career if the injury is bad enough. To me that is actually selfish in a sense. Its kinda like " Hey your career is over but Im getting a fat pay check." I think player that would take a moment to put their self in that situation, they would think twice about it. It definately cant be prevented 100% for sure, but is not behavior that should be encouraged on any level either. IMO

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

" Hey your career is over but Im getting a fat pay check."

Most already get a fat paycheck. 

In reality, what difference does $1,000 make when you're already getting $500k for the game? 

And I don't buy that crap that they were intentionally trying to injure the other players.  You don't have to cheap shot someone to have them 'carted off the field'.  Just hit them as hard as you can and let the laws of physics do the rest.

[duvaldude08]

" Hey your career is over but Im getting a fat pay check."

Most already get a fat paycheck. 

In reality, what difference does $1,000 make when you're already getting $500k for the game? 

And I don't buy that crap that they were intentionally trying to injure the other players.  You don't have to cheap shot someone to have them 'carted off the field'.  Just hit them as hard as you can and let the laws of physics do the rest.

I look at it like my job. Yeah I dont play football, but thats not the point. LOL Its  like someone doing all they can to get someone fired so they get a promotion aka more money.  Is that morally acceptable? Of course not.  Regardless, its against NFL policies and they should and will be punished. If you do something against your companies policy at work, the excuse "everybody does it" does not save you job at the end of the day.

[Garden guy]

Anyone who treats this lightly should be  ashamed and remember....there are children listening and learning...is this a lesson anyone would want to teach?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Anyone who treats this lightly should be  ashamed and remember....there are children listening and learning...is this a lesson anyone would want to teach?

Sure.  But think about it next time you tell your 12 year old you'll give them 5 bucks if the score a run.  Extra motivation and maybe the difference between them sliding around a tag at home or going through the catcher to get to the plate.

[BridgeTroll]

I dont think it is being blown out of proportion at all.  In fact what we are currently aware of may just be the tip of the iceberg.  This practice needs to be stopped immediately... for the good of the game... for the good of the players.  I expect Goddell to come down hard...

[SMoody84]

I don't think this is getting blown out of proportion either.. this is bad.  Beat the best player by your skill and gameplan.. don't put a bounty on him and have your players use cheap shots to get him out of the game.

Another question is... How are the bounties being funded?  It's not part of the players' contracts I'm sure..  This will be very interesting to see how Mr. Goddell punishes the parties involved.  I hear the punishment will be "unprecedented."

[KenFSU]

Anyone who treats this lightly should be  ashamed and remember....there are children listening and learning...is this a lesson anyone would want to teach?

With stories like this -- which I view as more a reflection on American football culture than an isolated incident in New Orleans -- coupled with the staggering research coming out of places like the Sports Legacy Institute on the long term effects of brain trauma and concussions, there's going to have to come a day where we, as a nation, have a real serious conversation about football and its place in our society, especially with our youth. It's a brutal, violent game, with potentially serious long term ramifications for the participants, even without the added risk these bounties present.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge football fan, but knowing what we know now about concussions in particular, if I had kids, I don't know if I'd be ok with them playing.

I'm curious, what do you parents out there think about the concussion issue when it comes to youth sports?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I agree that the punishment should be severe....

I think that if the commish does anything less than ban Williams for life, then he's not sending the correct message.  Since he (Williams) should be financially set based on the millions that he's been payed over the years, and you sit him out for only a year or half-a-year, that's more like a vacation than a punishment.   A life ban from the NFL will guarantee that it doesn't happen again.  I think Loomis and Payton should be gone for at least 1 year for allowing it to happen.  I don't think the players should be punished at all - they weren't doing anything differently from what they have been coached their whole life.

But I also think the term 'bounty' is being applied a little too liberally.  Is it easier to win with Tom Brady on the field or with Brian Hoyer chucking the ball?  The defense SHOULD already be hitting Brady with every intention of taking him out of the game - it's the nature of the sport.  The fact that the coaches are using some $$$$ as extra motivation is not a problem for me, personally.  We told our kids it was OK in Pop Warner, "I'll give you $5 for every touchdown you score."  We told our kids it was OK in High School, "I'll give you $20 for every sack you get tonight."  We told our kids it was OK in college, "Good game, son, now go thank Mr. Allen, he left something for you on the table."  And now in the pros, on the biggest stage, we shouldn't have to tell them, but it worked so well before, why not continue the practice?

Sure, we tell our kids to give it 110% every play, but if they did, we wouldn't need to give Jr. the $5 for a TD - it's EXTRA MOTIVATION to do what they're already supposed to be doing, and from my perspective, what's going on in the pros is no different. 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge football fan, but knowing what we know now about concussions in particular, if I had kids, I don't know if I'd be ok with them playing.

I'm curious, what do you parents out there think about the concussion issue when it comes to youth sports?

I don't think it's as great an issue until they start getting to the JV / Varsity level, when they all are big and fast or quickly getting there.

Everything else that I'm about to type isn't something I've thought of, it's from Vic Ketchman.  IMO, he is a true historian of the sport and I'm really glad that I had the opportunity to read him while he covered the Jags, and I also believe that he's spot on with a lot of his thoughts.

1.) Take away the facemask and shrink the helmet.  The reason you're seeing more helmet first contact is due to the size and padding that the helmet provides.  Players are wearing smaller shoulder pads - to be able to run faster and have more freedom of movement, but the helmets are larger than they were even 7-8 years ago.  Take the facemasks off, and guys would be a little more hesitant to lead with their face if they knew they might break a nose.  Right now, their heads are a tank.
2.)  Shrink the field.  I don't mean adjust the size, just adjust the way the game is played.  When they brought the hashmarks in closer to the middle, it opened up a lot of wide space in the passing lanes.  Freedom of space allow guys to gain more speed....  Another thing is the style of play - it used to be that a DB could stay in contact with the reciever until the ball was in the air, bump-and-run coverage, now they're not allowed to have any contact beyond 5 yds of the line of scrimmage.  It forces the defense to play a looser coverage that is being compensated by a safety playing centerfield, waiting on the QB to pick a target and then act like a heat-seeking-missle to the WR.  Instead of being tackled by the guy running with you, the WRs are getting hit by a guy running full speed in the opposite direction.
3.)  Take the handcuffs off of the pass-rushers.  You can't hit the QB in the head.  You can't hit him below the knees.  You can't hit him after an INT.  Guess what, that's allowing QBs more freedom in the pocket, allowing more time for guys to get separation, allowing more DBs to get to full speed before contact.  If the D was allowed to harass the QB as they did in years past, the passing game wouldn't be as emphasized and more teams would run the ball on more downs.  As it stands now, they might as well put a red jersey on the QB and tie some flags around his waist.