The Park That Got Away

[duvaldude08]

This happened (or should I say, this didn't happen) just before the city got rid of streetcars and modern transit in general. I guess it was decided as far back as the 30's to destroy the urban fabric, it just took them 40 years to do it. And now we're left with crap!

But I believe that JAX is on it's way back up, albeit very slowly. We still have lots of dead wood in council that needs to be chopped and cleared away in order to make room for young, fresh vibrant ideas to take hold and grow.

Yeah I agree. Its happening a snails pace, but its happening. I have a feeling one day and everything is just going to take off at one time. Thats usually how it happens here.

[fieldafm]

What we can do is make sure that Hogan's Creek and all of it's surrounding parks are utilized and developed in the best ways possible.  We could have a connected park system from Memorial Park in Riverside to Klutho Park in Springfield.  Let's make that happen.

Yes, focusing on the here and now is the only way forward... and Hogans represents a TREMENDOUS opportunity. 

Will be doing a cleanup after the new year, if anyone is interested.  Busy bees are working behind the scenes on Hogans Creek... more than half of the funding is sitting there and now we just need a bit of luck and a bit of elbow grease to make it happen.  If anyone is willing to lend a hand, I could sure use some more squeaky wheels making noise.

While most posts on this thread have been negative, I actually find plenty to be positive about regarding future river access today. 

[fieldafm]

BTW, great find Lake.  I never knew about this proposal.  Have you found any diagrams or any other plans related to this, or any of the other proposals mentioned in the article from the archives?

Some other interesting projects mentioned from that article:

City founder Isaiah Hart set aside a blackjack hammock for a public square. Not the choicest lot, but adequate. The City Commission pondered making a parking lot in '50s. In the '70s it was bricked over and now reposes in the shade of the Skyway Express.

Proper and penurious Bostonian John Murray Forbes saved the heart of Riverside for sweethearts and swans, a great place to abbreviate with an expressway.

Spratt's Swamp was filled for a football field; on the debris of the Jacksonville fire now sport the Jacksonville Jaguars.

City fathers aspired once to make Jacksonville ''The Evergeen City,'' concurrently uprooting palm trees running down the middle of Main Street.

The city turned to Chicago at the turn of the century for the model of a park that would make Springfield and make it an abiding place of beauty.

Island retreats along the river were the stuff of dreams through the years.

Yet, so once was desired a residential island raised off Riverside; shipyards and factories for the green shore of Arlington; hanging gardens and high-rise apartments along the unlikely banks of McCoy's Creek.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/011799/nef_foley.html

[vicupstate]

The problem with a 'snail's pace' is that the other cities in the state and region and nation, are NOT at a snail's pace. 

So really, a snail's pace is just continuing to fall behind.    At some point you have to put it in a higher gear.

[duvaldude08]

The problem with a 'snail's pace' is that the other cities in the state and region and nation, are NOT at a snail's pace. 

So really, a snail's pace is just continuing to fall behind.    At some point you have to put it in a higher gear.

The problem with Jacksonville is we waited to late. Before the recession hit we were getting ready to explode. Once the economy tanked, everything crumbled and folded. So now a snails pace is what we have to deal with until we find more creative ways of getting things of the ground.

[jcjohnpaint]

I'd say this city has one big problem.  It becomes very lazy as soon as it achieves something.  The laziness achieved by Jacksonville as soon as it achieves something big is unmatched by nearly every other big city out there.

I wonder if it is laziness or exhaustion.  I think a lot of progressive cities have a great body of support.  Jacksonville does have a lot of backward thinkers in powerful places.  This makes moving forward a more exhausting fight for the progressive.  One think backwards thinkers do not have is intelligence.  MJ does such a great job of informing the public.  If we don't know of past mistakes, how could we make way for a better future.  I do think Hogans is the beginning of a great city park.  It is easy to see.

[jcjohnpaint]

one thing - not think/ sorry

[thelakelander]

You don't have to do things at a snail's pace.  For example, the mobility plan is a pretty innovative way for the city to improve itself without raising taxes.  However, we put a moratorium on the fee, thus slowing down progress in the process.  On the flip end, COJ finally took advantage of an opportunity to get a major company in downtown with the Everbank deal.  Imagine if a property abatement program were developed for the entire CBD? 

BTW, great find Lake.  I never knew about this proposal.  Have you found any diagrams or any other plans related to this, or any of the other proposals mentioned in the article from the archives?

No.  I had read about it somewhere before but never knew the exact location.  I happened to be doing some research on Hogans Creek for the MJ book this past weekend and came across a copy of that article in JPL's Special Collections department.  My guess is a search of FTU archives from 1934 would pull up more detailed info.

[dougskiles]

Jacksonville does have a lot of backward thinkers in powerful places.

Yes, we do.

Complacency is the #1 issue that I see.  #2 is the desire from those who have been in power to protect the status quo.  And as long as we have #1, we'll have #2.  But there is hope.

I overheard two paddlers yesterday comment about how for 8 years they tried to get John Peyton out on the river.  Never once.  Then one of them remarked "Why would he?  He lives on the river and always has.  River access has never been an issue for him."  I am excited that we have a mayor more of us can relate to.  Spending some time with him yesterday made me like him all the more.  Very folksy and spirited.  And anxious to make some change in Jacksonville.

[Ocklawaha]

Another thing that a good friend of mine said was very true. Why is it that none of the church's downtown, invest in downtown? They already dont pay property taxes, so why not give back? For example, hogans creek run's right past Bethel Baptist. It amazes me that the church has never raised a concern about the condition of the creek, nor offer any financial assistance to get it cleaned up. Its time out for just going to service and going home. I feel that if you are going to reside downtown, invest in downtown. buying up property is fine, but when you are paying no property taxes its really not helping anything.

Um, your friend would be wrong. The incredibly well loved FBC, to my knowledge is the ONLY downtown resident that has followed through on the city's master plan.  Fountains, tree islands, and streetscape, brought to by those Bible thumping nincompoops. You can thank Bethel, FBC, the AME and a host of other churches for providing beds and meals for the homeless. Certainly we all wish this activity could be on the edge of town somewhere, but I wonder who will volunteer their neighborhood first?

Lake can probably shed more light on this subject.

OCKLAWAHA

[jcjohnpaint]

That is wonderful to hear!  I really have much faith in Mayor Brown.  He seems resilient, humble, and highly intelligent. 

[urbaknight]

Another thing that a good friend of mine said was very true. Why is it that none of the church's downtown, invest in downtown? They already dont pay property taxes, so why not give back? For example, hogans creek run's right past Bethel Baptist. It amazes me that the church has never raised a concern about the condition of the creek, nor offer any financial assistance to get it cleaned up. Its time out for just going to service and going home. I feel that if you are going to reside downtown, invest in downtown. buying up property is fine, but when you are paying no property taxes its really not helping anything.

Um, your friend would be wrong. The incredibly well loved FBC, to my knowledge is the ONLY downtown resident that has followed through on the city's master plan.  Fountains, tree islands, and streetscape, brought to by those Bible thumping nincompoops. You can thank Bethel, FBC, the AME and a host of other churches for providing beds and meals for the homeless. Certainly we all wish this activity could be on the edge of town somewhere, but I wonder who will volunteer their neighborhood first?

Lake can probably shed more light on this subject.

OCKLAWAHA

Let's put them near JTB area. There's no way you could get out of that area without using a car, it's far too dangerous to do it on foot. If we can put them there, there would be no way they could get back to DT. And it's so spread out that they wouldn't be able to interact with or panhandle other people.

[Jaxson]

I shudder to think that the city might have decided build a massive park --- but would soon turn around and decide to abandon it piecemeal to developers or other folks with myopic plans.  Besides, I am not curious to know where the city's racial lines were drawn at the time.  It appears that such common space would have provided too much opportunity for integrated public spaces.  Instead, the city leaders may have opted to focus on public spaces that were more insulated and thus segregated.  Just my guess - I could be wrong...

[thelakelander]

At that time the city had not developed that far west, so it definitely would not have been along racial lines.  It's also a huge stab in the dark to assume that the city would not have maintained it over time.  Every decision made results in several follow up decisions that over time can chart a community on two different paths.  Just imagine if Savannah or Charleston had the finances to follow Jax's mid-20th century economic development strategies?  They certainly would not be the tourism meccas they are today.

[Jaxson]

I was definitely making a wild guess, but cannot help but notice that the proposed greenbelt would have been within the vicinity of the old (pre-1968) city limits.  I would further guess that the City of Jacksonville would have been significantly more progressive in how it zoned incorporated lands that were adjacent to the parks as opposed to unincorporated lands.  For example, I noticed a significant change of character along Cassatt Avenue between Post Street and Normandy Boulevard.
Furthermore, I would also guess that as the city's population spread to the greenbelt that race would have been a factor in ensuring that the parks did not encourage integration.  The city might have even gone as far as sell valuable parkland before allowing it to integrate.  This, of course, would have depended on whether the city raised bonds to create the parks.  This kink is what prevented the city from being able to sell the Civic Auditorium, the Coliseum and the Gator Bowl to avoid desegregation -right?