Nashville Chooses BRT Over Modern Streetcars

[dougskiles]

I don't see how anyone call a system 'RAPID' when it shares space with cars.  Even if it has a dedicated lane and priority at traffic signals, it won't make it that much faster.

[JeffreyS]

Nashville chooses BRT over streetcars and somehow that's great news for Nashville?  I thought BRT was bad and streetcars were good.  Am I missing something here?

I thought so too! I thought that MJ's (not everyone) overwhelming sentiment was that streetcars where the holy grail, and buses were despised; Although, this 'hot button topic' thread isn't exactly bustling with comments, so I'm guessing that many are taking the 'If you don't got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all' approach.

Buses are not despised here quite the opposite.  Just don't spend the same amount of money you would on fixed rail building dedicated bus ways and call it the same.  That was happening before MJ put a stop to it. Likewise don't paint a bus like a streetcar and call it the same thing or representative in any way with what fixed rail brings to the table.  That is currently happening in Jax.

This site has had articles on what the JTA could do to improve it's bus service.  Like Lake said what you are trying to accomplish dictates what mode of transit you should implement. If development dollars are part of what you want to bring you need fixed rail.  Buses are flexible and you can move the stops any time you want so they are terrible to risk development dollars around. However if you want to invest near transit fixed rail is well fixed.

[thelakelander]

Yes, buses aren't despised. Spending more money than necessary and promoting them as providing the same quality of life benefits as rail is.  Personally, I'd love for JTA to implement their BRT system like Charlotte did with their Sprinter BRT.  If so, the entire thing would cost less than $5 million than $20-$25 million for each corridor.

[thelakelander]

I don't see how anyone call a system 'RAPID' when it shares space with cars.  Even if it has a dedicated lane and priority at traffic signals, it won't make it that much faster.

This is one of those lies that puts buses and BRT in a bad light with many people.  I don't know why transit authorities just can't be honest and call it "enhanced bus service" and stop trying to compare it with other modes.

[dougskiles]

^I would feel much better about it if they did just call it enhanced service.  By selling it as something it is not makes me question their integrity.  It also makes me question their intention (or ability) to ever provide something that is truly RAPID.

Then there is the issue of duplication of existing service.  If they want to provide enhanced bus service from the SE corridor to Kings Avenue, great.  But enhanced bus service from Kings Avenue to downtown along the Skyway route?  Not so great.

[JeffreyS]

It will also leave people disappointed when it doesn't live up to billing.

[Dashing Dan]

The pushback up in Nashville has begun!

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20111214/COLUMNIST0101/312140059/Gail-Kerr-Rapid-bus-isn-t-popular-least-s-an-idea?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[fsujax]

I wonder why they didn't examine the new "wireless" streetcar option. Since they attributed the high capital cost of the streetcar to the electrical system.

[thelakelander]

^Because, it appears that BRT may have been the predetermined winner all along.  I say this because the majority of the FAQs focus on one form of BRT vs one form of streetcar (the most expensive) and downplays the economic impact these technologies have on the communities they penetrate.  It reads like a cut and pasted CUTR report.

[fsujax]

yeah. i noticed that too.

[Dashing Dan]

The time frame for this study was fairly short - less than one year.  But it was sold as a streetcar/LRT study.

Also this corridor is prime "choice rider" territory.  LRT for this corridor has been studied before.

[fsujax]

Here is the official website for the study.

http://www.broadwaywestendstudy.com/

[dougskiles]

What is the real reason these transit agencies are drooling all over BRT?  Are they only looking at the lower initial cost (of BRT) and ignoring the higher return that you get from a rail system?

[fsujax]

I am sure direction from FTA plays a role in the decision process as well. That's why if a city wants to build a streetcar it is just best they fund it locally.

[AaroniusLives]

What is the real reason these transit agencies are drooling all over BRT?  Are they only looking at the lower initial cost (of BRT) and ignoring the higher return that you get from a rail system?

Yes, although there are more subtle shades at play here as well. A friend of mine is working on the Montgomery County BRT plan, and he mentioned that BRT is a great way to get a large system up and running in a short period of time. In MoCo's case, it also helps solve a civic problem, in that while some people want the transit option, others don't want to give up the suburban lifestyle. So, BRT in this application is kind of a 'have your cake and eat it too' solution for those voters. Moreover, MoCo already has both commuter rail and DC's Metro Red Line, so BRT in this case isn't an overall transit replacement, but an addition to an already rail-covered area.

There's also significant money out there to be had, should one choose the BRT option, as advocates are trying to get an American result akin to what BRT has done in South America (where it's basically a full-on heavy rail system replacement, with density, commerce and the rest encouraged.) I think that setting those expectations at that level is entirely wrong, and why the BRT people will have an uphill battle from those over-promises. Having said that, they should make it their goal to implement a full system somewhere, with the idea that even if nothing else changes: no vast TOD push, no return to the inner city, no embrace of the row house, etc...that just by having a reliable, comprehensive, transit option connecting the sprawl is a success. Or, to put this another way, if the only thing that changed in a sprawling, suburban American metro area is that now said metro has a decent mass transit option where they didn't before, thats success.