Nashville Chooses BRT Over Modern Streetcars

[Dashing Dan]

Before we get carried away with Nashville-envy, check out this rejection of modern streetcars, and the selection of a BRT line instead.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20111212/NEWS0202/312120047/Study-says-rapid-buses-best-option-east-west-transit?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s

http://www.tennessean.com/assets/pdf/DN1828191212.PDF

[thelakelander]

The steering committee of the Broadway/West End Corridor Study agreed that bus rapid transit, which uses dedicated bus lanes to help commuters and other travelers move quickly and reduce congestion, is the way to go after learning that the only other feasible option, modern streetcars, would cost twice as much without substantially increasing ridership.

Great news for Nashville.  Going with modern streetcars instead of heritage would make the cost rise significantly, especially if initially double tracked.  Any idea on the anticipated amount of economic development that will come along with their new BRT line?

[Dashing Dan]

Nashville chooses BRT over streetcars and somehow that's great news for Nashville?  I thought BRT was bad and streetcars were good.  Am I missing something here?

[thelakelander]

I never said BRT was bad.  I said it doesn't have a strong record for stimulating TOD, which it doesn't.  So if your goal is to create sustainable development, then fixed transit makes more sense.  If your goal is just to connect existing destinations with mass transit in general, BRT begins to make more sense.  My pet peeve comes when people try and act like different transportation system alternatives can accomplish the same goals equally.  Btw, check out Eugene, OR's EmX when you get the chance.  It's a pretty cool BRT system for a smaller community.  Also, as far as BRT goes in Jax, I'd like to see us do what Charlotte did with their Sprinter instead of what JTA is proposing.

[thelakelander]

^With that said, I don't necessarily agree with the way Nashville's consultants have structured their BRT vs. Streetcar FAQ.  The answers reek of a process where one mode was already favored by the entity in charge of the studies.  It reads like some of the misinformation JTA used around 2004, when they were proposing the billion dollar dedicated busway plan.

[simms3]

I'm too lazy to check out all the links, but the corridor they are speaking of is already "developed" and becoming even denser/more walkable.  It's not like a new system of any kind will "spur" development, because it's already happening.  As Lake pointed out, this is just to move people already there and moving in more efficiently along the corridor.  It will likely be used for convenience predominantly by Vanderbilt students and office workers between downtown and the west end.  Visitors to the area may not see a use for it as most buildings have a garage attached/underneath, and residents of West End may use it to get to events downtown or to the bars.

BTW, underneath the posted article was another article on a contemporary intown home offering views of the city.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20111211/BUSINESS02/312110020/Modern-mansion-Oak-Hill-offers-striking-views?odyssey=obinsite

I'd love to see more of that happening in Jacksonville, mixing in with some of those old homes

[tufsu1]

I'm with Lake...there are places where BRT makes the most sense....and in Jax that is primarily out to the beach, where we don't have rail infrastructure....now, if we can't make rail work on the CSX and FEC lines, then other BRT routes might also make sense here...but we should be trying rail first.

Take note that the image in the article (front page of report) seems to imply this will be full BRT, with dedicated lanes, raised platforms, articulated buses, etc...what we are doing here in jax. is BRT lite...call it what you will (especially if that allows for Federal funding) but it is nothing more than enhanced local bus service.

Also note that the report considered light rail as well as modern streetcars....streetcars today generally work connecting neighborhoods togetrher, with lines no more than about 5 miles in length....which fits perfectly for cnnecting Riverside through downtown up to Springfield

[thelakelander]

^Good catch.  As mentioned there are several forms of BRT, which can make the technology pretty confusing for the average person.  If anyone wants to see what is being proposed for Jax, Kansas City's Max is a great example.  Here are a few images I took of the Max last year:

BRT station, which is really an enhanced bus shelter.




BRT buses traveling in lanes with regular traffic


Branded buses.  Branding is simply a different name and color scheme from the rest of the bus routes in the city.  In JTA's BRT plans, the cost of new buses are the lion's share of the expense.



Dedicated lanes if the width of the street allows it.  In short, a few streets will lose some shoulders and parallel parking.  You can find an example of JTA's dedicated lanes on Blanding, where the parallel parking stalls used to be.

[Dashing Dan]

Nashville already has "BRT Lite" in one corridor.  The existing Nashville BRT buses are articulated, with wheel skirts.

[reednavy]

The "BRT lite" in Nashville is currently along Gallatin RD/Pike was paid for by mostly federal dollars. It is basically a test to potentially extend it further up Gallatin.

Now, while I'm not the most thrilled over the corridor being BRT, I see it as a launching pad. I believe this is just the start and eventually West End/Broadway will see light rail, while it is a relatively dense street it has yet to reach what I believe is enough density/population to make light rail worthwhile.

[fsujax]

I hightly doubt it will ever be converted to rail. Ottawa has the most successful BRT system in North America and they haven't converted it to rail. That was one the flaws with our originally proposed BRT, saying it could be converted to rail, it just will not happen.

[Dashing Dan]

I was really expecting that Nashville would have chosen LRT or streetcars for their Broadway West End corridor.  The BRT outcome is a big surprise to me.

In that corridor that already has BRT, commuter rail has been stymied by a heavy volume of rail freight traffic.

[Dashing Dan]

BTW, underneath the posted article was another article on a contemporary intown home offering views of the city.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20111211/BUSINESS02/312110020/Modern-mansion-Oak-Hill-offers-striking-views?odyssey=obinsite

I'd love to see more of that happening in Jacksonville, mixing in with some of those old homes

It may not be far from the center of Nashville, but that Oak Hill house is in a remote area. 

In Jacksonville it would be like being on an island in the middle of the St. Johns River.

[simms3]

^^^Maybe so, but I would still love to see contemporary homes like that mixed in with the older houses.  I have seen stuff like that in Nashville and of course contemporary is mixed in everywhere with old here in Atlanta.  It works and promotes new construction and more people.

[I-10east]

Nashville chooses BRT over streetcars and somehow that's great news for Nashville?  I thought BRT was bad and streetcars were good.  Am I missing something here?

I thought so too! I thought that MJ's (not everyone) overwhelming sentiment was that streetcars where the holy grail, and buses were despised; Although, this 'hot button topic' thread isn't exactly bustling with comments, so I'm guessing that many are taking the 'If you don't got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all' approach.