The myth of Entitlements and Freeloaders

[FayeforCure]

There is nothing to be had in the US. No safety-net, NOTHING.

What liitle there is, is being dismantled more and more.............leaving the vulnerable (the old, the sick and the disabled) destitute!!

America redistributes its wealth FAR LESS than other developed countries (via government transfers)



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/new-charts-about-inequality-2011-11#america-redistributes-its-wealth-far-less-than-other-developed-countries-via-government-transfers-15#ixzz1dKEnCnXY

[FayeforCure]

In fact, America has the highest income inequality of any country in the developed world

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/new-charts-about-inequality-2011-11#in-fact-america-has-the-highest-income-inequality-of-any-country-in-the-developed-world-18#ixzz1dKIciqyy

[ben says]

This thread is probably not gonna be too popular with the "America is the best" crowd (which I know reside in this forum is significant numbers).

The numbers are truly shocking, but not surprising. Those statistics are the norm when your system of government/corporate regulation is unsustainable and based on fantasy.

[NotNow]

This country was founded under the principles of individual freedom and responsibility.  Having the federal government redistibute the wealth goes against those principles.  I don't know that I am in the "America is best" crowd, but I have traveled to many places and I find our form of government to be the best system I have seen.  Could we improve a few things?  Yep.  But copying the failing European socialist democracy system ain't one of them.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

There is nothing to be had in the US. No safety-net, NOTHING.

What liitle there is, is being dismantled more and more.............leaving the vulnerable (the old, the sick and the disabled) destitute!!

America redistributes its wealth FAR LESS than other developed countries (via government transfers)

Then why are you here?

This is what perplexes me most about your 'we/them' comparisons - you have dual-citizenship!  You of all people on this forum one of the easier paths to leaving permanently, yet you choose to stay.  I'm sure you could fill the place up with some bullshit grand, ideological explanation of how you're just trying to make the US a better place, but my guess is, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's truly better here - in the state that everything is in - than it would be for you 'over there'.

[acme54321]

Faye,

I have seen you were originally from the Netherlands?  Were you born there?  If so, why did you come here?


You seem to do a lot of complaining about the US government.  Just curious, seriously not trying to start anything.

[ben says]

There is nothing to be had in the US. No safety-net, NOTHING.

What liitle there is, is being dismantled more and more.............leaving the vulnerable (the old, the sick and the disabled) destitute!!

America redistributes its wealth FAR LESS than other developed countries (via government transfers)

Then why are you here?

This is what perplexes me most about your 'we/them' comparisons - you have dual-citizenship!  You of all people on this forum one of the easier paths to leaving permanently, yet you choose to stay.  I'm sure you could fill the place up with some bullshit grand, ideological explanation of how you're just trying to make the US a better place, but my guess is, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's truly better here - in the state that everything is in - than it would be for you 'over there'.

Oh here we go...the 'why are you here' crowd. Great...

[ben says]

This country was founded under the principles of individual freedom and responsibility.  Having the federal government redistibute the wealth goes against those principles.  I don't know that I am in the "America is best" crowd, but I have traveled to many places and I find our form of government to be the best system I have seen.  Could we improve a few things?  Yep.  But copying the failing European socialist democracy system ain't one of them.

'Failing socialist democracy' I find it's the socialism and government that works fine. It's the finance/corporate structure (and deregulation) that destroys a working system.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Oh here we go...the 'why are you here' crowd. Great...

I only use that argument based on what little I've about and from her on this site.

If the grass is so much greener, and there's no 'fence' holding you back, then why subject yourself - willingly?

Edit:

If the EU has better schools, better health care, better policy, better quality of life in general - you're doing yourself and your family a dis-service by staying here.

[NotNow]

This country was founded under the principles of individual freedom and responsibility.  Having the federal government redistribute the wealth goes against those principles.  I don't know that I am in the "America is best" crowd, but I have traveled to many places and I find our form of government to be the best system I have seen.  Could we improve a few things?  Yep.  But copying the failing European socialist democracy system ain't one of them.

'Failing socialist democracy' I find it's the socialism and government that works fine. It's the finance/corporate structure (and deregulation) that destroys a working system.

Really?  So the riots and protests against various European governments for cutting government "redistribution of wealth" is because of the finance/corporate structure?

It is an unsustainable system.  As Mrs. Thatcher wisely pointed out,"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money." 

I would think it would be obvious to any parent.  Everyone must have a "stake" in the system.  If you just give away things, they are abused and not appreciated.  When you work for your property and your benefits, you not only appreciate what is required for them, but you build self worth in at least partially providing for yourself.

Now, before you start, I realize that there will be (few and far between) cases where some simply must be provided for due to various disabilities.  But entitlements and freeloaders are not a myth.  I see them every day.  And yes, some are corporate and some are governmental.

[Bridges]

If the EU has better schools, better health care, better policy, better quality of life in general - you're doing yourself and your family a dis-service by staying here.

Isn't that what we do on this site in regards to other cities?  I mean don't we bitch and moan about how great other cities are doing it?  How we should be doing this here or that here?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Isn't that what we do on this site in regards to other cities?  I mean don't we bitch and moan about how great other cities are doing it?  How we should be doing this here or that here?

Sure.  Some more, some less.  Almost every post that I read anti-jacksonville, thought, is not about how much a shithole our city is but what other things we should be doing here to up our QOL.  A majority of the 'discussion' here isn't strictly about j'ville v/s [insert city], but about how a decent mass transit system like the one in San Diego would help us out.  How a medical university downtown like the one in Indy would be great.  How if we developed our riverwalk like the one in Houston, wouldn't that be awesome.  It's mostly about incorporating other ideas here, for us.

Not this:

Take a look at the first line of her post:

There is nothing to be had in the US.

And my general sentiment is, if that's the way you feel, then why are you here?  Seems a pretty relevant question.

[Bridges]

Isn't that what we do on this site in regards to other cities?  I mean don't we bitch and moan about how great other cities are doing it?  How we should be doing this here or that here?

Sure.  Some more, some less.  Almost every post that I read anti-jacksonville, thought, is not about how much a shithole our city is but what other things we should be doing here to up our QOL.  A majority of the 'discussion' here isn't strictly about j'ville v/s [insert city], but about how a decent mass transit system like the one in San Diego would help us out.  How a medical university downtown like the one in Indy would be great.  How if we developed our riverwalk like the one in Houston, wouldn't that be awesome.  It's mostly about incorporating other ideas here, for us.

Not this:

Take a look at the first line of her post:

There is nothing to be had in the US.

And my general sentiment is, if that's the way you feel, then why are you here?  Seems a pretty relevant question.

Well, I'm pretty sure the "nothing to be had in the U.S." was a direct reference to the idea that entitlements lead to freeloaders.  Not a general "nothing in the US...ever, for anything".

I think Faye takes the same approach with this as we do with comparing other cities.  Albeit, it comes across sometimes a little frantic, but so can a lot of other posters about trains, or waterways, or the homeless.  I believe her main idea is, this works there why not try it here.  You may disagree about what "this/that is" and whether it would work here, but it's not the same as saying "well just go there".

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Maybe you're right.  Maybe I'm just disagreeing with her thought process the wrong way. 

[NotNow]

I stand by my statement that everyone should have a stake in society.  The goal should always be to earn what you recieve.  While I accept a certain level of "safety net", I will not accept the government taking the majority of what I earn to provide a "nanny state". 

Incidently, European governments are in trouble because they are in deep, deep debt.  They have borrowed too much money to pay excessive social programs.  Now, when it looks as if some governments may default, they can't continue to borrow year after year to keep up the programs.  So the "austerity" is not the fault of the banks, it simply raises the chances that they will be paid back the money they loaned to governments.  Those chances are still iffy though, which is why we are seeing so many financial houses who are exposed to Euro debt in trouble.  Corporations didn't pass the social programs and they didn't borrow the money to finance them.

I agree that wages are much too low in this country.  We could debate why that is for pages in another thread.  I'm also sure that we would disagree on how to ensure wages increased.