The Jacksonville Jaguars

[Tacachale]

^I've read that uncited Wikipedia article before. It's wrong on a number of accounts, including this one. I've also read a lot more on the topic besides Wikipedia. Our historical support of football was an asset, not a hindrance, as was the fact we were building a new stadium - and we were doing that primarily to accommodate college football games.

[I-10east]

^^^You got to realize that pro football and college football are two separate things. Selling out two college football games a year does not equate to having a NFL team where fans attend eight regular season games, they are two totally different animals. Wiki isn't the only source that realize this, hell, the NFL realizes it. Why do you think that Jags ticket sales were low when the Gators won those championships? That's right, because of fringe bandwagon college fans, that masquerade as Jag fans; They jump off the bandwagon when the team is down. I don't see how anyone is their right mind could say that the Gators or any other college team is good business for the Jaguars esp in a small market city like Jax. Why does everyone think that Jax getting a team is such an unique situation? Oh yeah, we are the only city that had to build an overly large stadium to woo in the NFL and college games (no one without the other)?? Nonsense, the NFL could give a rats ass concerning what goes on with college football, other then not playing on Saturday. 

[KenFSU]

I've actually been doing quite a bit of research on the history of football in Jacksonville, and have probably poured over a good 300 newspaper articles in the last week. If time permits, I'd love to put it all together in article form. With that qualifier, I think it does great injustice to Jacksonville to credit any one thing - such as the success of college football - for the city being awarded the Jaguars.  Rather, it was a combination of events nearly one hundred years in the making. College football played its part. But so did record-setting crowds at the 1968 and 1969 AFL All Star games in Jacksonville. So did 109,000 fans packing the Gator Bowl for the first two Jacksonville Sharks WFL home games. So did the Jacksonville Bulls amazing live gates. So did Irsay and his helicopter.  Even the Great Fire of 1901 played a part in the drama.

It is my belief that from 1987 on, it was a matter of when, not if, Jacksonville would get an NFL team. The mayor's NFL Task Force (yep, it actually existed and was quite controversial at times) met with numerous teams in 1987 about possible relocation. Two teams in particular -- the Atlanta Falcons and Houston Oilers -- were made incredible offers. Though in the end both teams stayed put and possibly used Jacksonville for leverage, it's also important to note (and somewhat lost to history) that Atlanta and Houston were the two teams that argued the loudest in Jacksonville's favor when NFL owners met in Chicago to decide who to award the second expansion franchise to in 1993.

Throw in the fact that the NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, as well as the President and Vice President of Operations (Neil Austrian and Roger Goodell) felt strongly that the NFL needed another presence in the growing, lucrative southeast region, and in retrospect, the franchise was almost Jacksonville's to lose.

If you really look closely at local history, two things are quite evident:

1) It's nearly impossible to seperate football from the fabric of our city.
2) It's nearly impossible to seperate our city from the history of football.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Bottom line is we have a team and we need to continue to support the team, dragging up ancient articles and talk really is irrelevant at this point. And the talk about a new stadium, are we really this bored in Jacksonville?

[KenFSU]

Because, of course, true fans show no interest in the history or future of their local franchise.

[I-10east]

I agree with everything that you said Ken, except for college football did it's part to bring in the Jags. IMO all of the talk about the Gator Bowl game, and the GA/FL game having 'it's part' to bring in a NFL franchise to Jacksonville is all just PC BS talk that appeases the college fans; In the grand scheme of things, it was like a 'pinch of salt' that is used to make a large pot of minestrone soup.

Everyone (should) know that the true rock solid NFL fanbases (win or lose no matter what) exists in the Northeast, and Mid West by most accounts; These are the cities that are pro football-centric. Can anyone think of any truly rock solid (win or lose, go to the game in droves) Southern teams NFL fanbases? *crickets* That's right, because of the South being a warm weather, hardcore college football region. Any coincidence?

[copperfiend]

^^^I TOTALLY disagree. The size of that stadium had nothing to do with us getting the team. Why would the NFL automatically turn Jax down because of a 64K seat stadium?

I didn't say automatically turn down. But the new 70k+ stadium with over 10k club seats was their biggest selling point.

[fsujax]

The problem with the seating capacity of the stadium, is that in the early years the stadium was sold out! Like it or not, some think we should still be selling the whole thing out and we will always be held to that standard.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

The problem with the seating capacity of the stadium, is that in the early years the stadium was sold out! Like it or not, some think we should still be selling the whole thing out and we will always be held to that standard.

All problems, no solutions.  Can't someone think outside of the box for a change?   

Who's the most influential man in Ponte Vedra?  Does he have a daughter in her early/mid twenties?  Have Gabbert become the adopted son of PV, a la, Mark Brunell and BOOM!  Stadium is full again.

Oh yeah, the Jags have to win some games along the way.   

[Jason]

Ken,

I wasn't aware of the fight for a team in the late 80's, great information!  And I would have to agree with Houston's and Atlanta's choice to cheer for a new expansion team in Jacksonville because it would have been in their best interest.  If that would not have happened, we may be talking about the Jacksonville Oilers or Jax Falcons!    Although I much prefer to have my own home grown franchise that is free and clear of the negatives of a relocated team.

[fsujax]

I dont really care either way. I have my season tickets. One solution is the team needs to better market to cities like Savannah, Daytona Beach, Tallahassee, PCB, etc.

[Tacachale]

I-10, you can deny it all you want, it still doesn't make it true.

Here's a New York Times piece from the period.

Negatives associated with Jacksonville included its small market size and the fact that

The ownership group dropped out of the bidding for a month in July and August [1993] because it could not negotiate a stadium lease with the city. And its stadium, the Gator Bowl, is outdated.

No mention of college football getting in the way.

In fact, along with its various other positives (and the negatives of the other bidders), Jacksonville

...returned as a bidder at [Commissioner Paul] Tagliabue's urging and sold five-year commitments for its 10,000 preferred seats in 10 days. The city agreed to spend $121 million to fix up the Gator Bowl [a plan already in motion specifically to accommodate the college games], adding club seating and luxury boxes. And although it has no other major league sports teams, it will tap into a regional football fervor already enjoyed by the University of Florida and Florida State, both less than two hours away.

[I-10east]

^^^Of course he's gonna say that. Hell, I would like to tap into the Alaskan oil pipeline and get richer if I could. So looking at the overall picture, what happened before Weaver was forced to put on the tarps? That's right those 'hardcore Gator and Noles/ fickle novelty NFL fans fell back on their 'foundations' to the Gators, Noles etc. I'm looking at before and in the present with the team now, so if that was the plan to pick Jax (in a 73K stadium) as a NFL market in part because of college football (which I doubt really had any major significance) we all know now that 'plan' failed miserably. Many of the football fans in Jax do not even get tickets to the Gators, Bulldogs/ Noles, Mountaineers etc games, they prefer to tailgate outside; Mostly the alum goes to those games anyway, so it's not like all of Jax fills up the GA/FL game. IMO Jax's growth (esp at the time), love for NFL FOOTBALL in the ratings, the USFL attendance, WFL attendance, the past attempts to lure NFL teams here, were the most significant reasons that we got the team. It was a mistake to let the GA/FL game dictate the size of that stadium, and we are obvious paying for it now, with the tarp jokes etc. How bout 64K seats & 10K club seats?? Sounds pretty damn good to me; That heavily inflated 73K number all about college football, and none about pro football and it shows right now. Weaver really did not want that stadium to be as large as it is. Hypothetically, if Jax would have said GA/FL 64K seats (10K club seats) take it, or leave it, it would not have ANY affect on Jax getting the Jags.     

[duvaldude08]

I dont really care either way. I have my season tickets. One solution is the team needs to better market to cities like Savannah, Daytona Beach, Tallahassee, PCB, etc.

I am hoping that is in Lampkins plan. We need to market in any city within two hours of Jax. With the bucs and dolphins popularity on the downhill sprial, we may be able to snag some new fans. And Im with you. I have my tickets. I just paid the balance off last week. Season tickets are dirt cheap. I have friends who say " I cant afford it" When I tell them you can get season tickets for 30.00 a month they say "For real? I didnt know that."

[duvaldude08]

Bottom line is we have a team and we need to continue to support the team, dragging up ancient articles and talk really is irrelevant at this point. And the talk about a new stadium, are we really this bored in Jacksonville?

I think we are bored Keith. Im still a little lost about the current conversation. Im just an observer this time around