Is there a market for this school in Jax?

[MusicMan]

Getting back to your original question: "Is there are market for this school in Jax?"  Sure, and it is being served by several good schools. I think your organic farm idea sounds great. Are you sure you have to leave the state to do it? I have always felt a farm could also absorb some of our out-of-work population, becaus every farm I've ever been to (and I spent 2 weeks visiting my friends 60 acre organic farm in Northern Virginia this summer) needs lots of manual labor to succeed.

[jax-native68]

Sounds pretty good to me Jax Native.  Anyone familiar with the AP exams can tell you how important prepping for them was----especially over the long summer where you might not retain the previous years information.

AP exams don’t really cover cumulative material except for foreign languages.  You generally take the AP exam for each subject near the end of the school year in which you are taking the AP course.  I was told during my 3rd year of German Language that I could take the AP German exam before the end of that school year or anytime after that.  I took the exams for English lit, European History and Biology before I had even finished taking these courses.

But for everything else, especially in elementary grades, students can spend an entire grading period or more re-learning what they had forgotten during the summer.

The kind of parents that are going to send children bright enough for AP classes to a Christian School are already teaching their children creationism at home, so its not like an additional class in the subject is going to expose them to the ideas any more than they are already.

The AP exam wouldn’t cover Creationism anyway.  I would have to teach evolution to prepare students for the AP bio exam, but this doesn’t mean students have to believe it. And making students compare and contrast evolution and Creationism will improve their thinking skills- which our existing schools generally ignore.

But on the other hand, parents (speaking from experience here) tend to be set in their ways and have less liberal ideas about education. Coming from a fundamentalist background, I know that my own family would have been a lot more open to the idea of a summer prep school if they could have been comforted that it would also teach things that they felt were important---like creationism.

My father’s family was Baptist, but they always did their worshipping at the First Baptist Church of Budweiser.  My mother’s mother was raised as a Lutheran, but her father was an atheist.  I was raised with zero religion at home and I wouldn’t give you 2 cents for every organized church in the world.  My parents are both children of the 1960s.  So despite my low opinion of organized religion, I’ve always been the conservative one in my family.

Your idea sounds delightful to me, and I do think that it serves a need, and potentially a group of gifted kids that would not be served otherwise

My goal would be to have an improved version of Stanton with a veneer of Christianity.  When Stanton opened in 1981 it was planned that by the time I graduated the school would have a pre-med program through the University of Florida.  It didn’t happen.  The IB coordinator didn’t know his head from a hole in the ground.  One of my math teachers also taught typing.  The library had science books that were from the 1960s and 1950s.  And to top it off a whole school year was wasted by the time I did duplicate coursework (7th grade life science = 9th grade biology I = 12th grade AP biology for example).  Stanton never lived up to its potential.

[avs]

Everyone has a different experience and It depends alot on what or how you continue education.

Obviously a person who wants to be a forest ranger or a deep sea diver, or a fireman isnt going to particularly benefit from AP course credits, but I think it definitely helps in the applied and theoretical sciences, fine arts and the humanities.

My sis and I both pursued humanities and fine arts degrees, I have no idea why FSU didn't let her skip some of what she came in with. You are absolutely right though, if someone wants to be a fireman, or deep sea diver, etc then they prob wouldn't use AP courses in their training.  I took all honors and AP and feel the classes were pretty equal, one just had a huge test at the end.  Passing the AP classes and using them to get rid of college classes def isn't guaranteed though

[jax-native68]

Episcopal and Bolles are for wealthy people and its freaking expensive to enter.  Stanton is so prebooked that it might as well be a legacy school, and the other christian schools usually don't have an emphasis on AP curricula.

I once interviewed for a job at a tutoring service where the owner told me that parents are given applications for financial aid when they request an application for enrollment at Bolls.  Tuition, room and board at Bolles was something like $30,000 a year at the time.

Stanton was over-crowded when I was there 20 years ago.  The school opened with grades 7-10.  7th grade enrollment was supposed to be capped at 700 students.  But the NAACP pitched a temper tantrum and we ended up with at least 1200 7th graders.  I had at least 30 students in my core academic classes for 7th grade.  My graduating class had about 75 students and only a few of us had been their since the 7th grade.

[jax-native68]

The whole AP thing is a little overblown though, IMO.  My sister went to a school that was IB down in Hillsborough County, so all her classes were AP.  She still had to take many of those classes again at FSU even though she did well on the AP exams.

To some extent colleges limit how much AP credit they will give.  The more courses you have to take in college the longer you have to pay tuition so the more money the college can make.  I would seriously investigate getting accreditation as a junior college so my students can enroll in a baccalaureate program without any loss of high school credit.

AP classes wouldn't sell me on a school, and the lack of Phys Ed and music would concern me.

Why would you put more emphasis on PE than you would academics?

BTW: My curriculum would include courses on fine arts and music so students would get a good all-around liberal arts education.  I might offer something like band as an after school extracurricular activity, but I wouldn’t include it as an option for academic credit. 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

baptists don't Recognize each other at the liquor store.

And the reason that you have to invite two of them anytime you go camping, golfing or fishing - unless you want all or your beer drank. 

[jax-native68]

I think your organic farm idea sounds great. Are you sure you have to leave the state to do it?

Climate-wise I need to leave the state.  I am not nearly as active as I need to be to deal with my high blood pressure and arthritis because I have trouble with Florida's heat and humidity. A cooler climate would mean fewer insects, less plant disease and a greater variety of crops.

I have always felt a farm could also absorb some of our out-of-work population, becaus every farm I've ever been to (and I spent 2 weeks visiting my friends 60 acre organic farm in Northern Virginia this summer) needs lots of manual labor to succeed.

The manual labor is my problem.  I’ve been around gardening for as long as I can remember because my father’s parents were both expert growers.  I’ve had my own garden almost every year since 1981 and I’ve used mostly organic methods since the 1990s.  I have the mental know-how and enough money to buy land (out of state) and get started  But I don’t the physical ability.

[Ocklawaha]

My father’s family was Baptist, but they always did their worshipping at the First Baptist Church of Budweiser.  My mother’s mother was raised as a Lutheran, but her father was an atheist.  I was raised with zero religion at home and I wouldn’t give you 2 cents for every organized church in the world.  My parents are both children of the 1960s.  So despite my low opinion of organized religion, I’ve always been the conservative one in my family.

I must admit a certain fondness for budweiser baptists.  They tend to be a lot more genial than the iced tea variety.

As a Baptist, I have to share my favorite joke.

Jews don't Recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

Protestants dont Recognize the Pope as the head of the Church.

Baptists don't Recognize each other at the liquor store.

Maybe not Stephen, but I did recognize that Methodist guy we talked to the other day while in the ABC store.

Isn't it funny to you that most people on this site fall all over themselves to stay liberal or open minded, but the mention of God or religion brings out Garden Guy and every other person in town that has ever written a comment in the Times-Union.

"EEEEEEK Auntie Em, It's a twister, it's a twister!"

OCKLAWAHA 

[jax-native68]

My father’s family was Baptist, but they always did their worshipping at the First Baptist Church of Budweiser.  My mother’s mother was raised as a Lutheran, but her father was an atheist.  I was raised with zero religion at home and I wouldn’t give you 2 cents for every organized church in the world.  My parents are both children of the 1960s.  So despite my low opinion of organized religion, I’ve always been the conservative one in my family.

I must admit a certain fondness for budweiser baptists.  They tend to be a lot more genial than the iced tea variety.

As a Baptist, I have to share my favorite joke.

Jews don't Recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

Protestants dont Recognize the Pope as the head of the Church.

Baptists don't Recognize each other at the liquor store.

Maybe not Stephen, but I did recognize that Methodist guy we talked to the other day while in the ABC store.

Isn't it funny to you that most people on this site fall all over themselves to stay liberal or open minded, but the mention of God or religion brings out Garden Guy and every other person in town that has ever written a comment in the Times-Union.

"EEEEEEK Auntie Em, It's a twister, it's a twister!"

OCKLAWAHA 

Georgia’s drinking age was 18 until just a few years before I enrolled in college.  I started out at Emory’s satellite campus in Oxford Georgia because the main campus in Atlanta didn’t have enough space.  Oxford was only a 2 year school so no freshman was old enough to drink under Georgia law and I was one of the few students to be drinking age by the time I transferred out of Oxford. This Methodist school was so bad I could have made a fortune buying alcohol for the drunks when I turned 21.  And before Georgia’s drinking age was raised the school itself owned and operated a bar for the students.

I don’t drink; never have.  But when I was diagnosed with congestive heart failure in 2008 I was giving drinking serious consideration.

[jax-native68]

My father’s family was Baptist, but they always did their worshipping at the First Baptist Church of Budweiser.  My mother’s mother was raised as a Lutheran, but her father was an atheist.  I was raised with zero religion at home and I wouldn’t give you 2 cents for every organized church in the world.  My parents are both children of the 1960s.  So despite my low opinion of organized religion, I’ve always been the conservative one in my family.

I must admit a certain fondness for budweiser baptists.  They tend to be a lot more genial than the iced tea variety.

As a Baptist, I have to share my favorite joke.

Jews don't Recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

Protestants dont Recognize the Pope as the head of the Church.

Baptists don't Recognize each other at the liquor store.

Come to think of it I’ve never known a non-drinking Baptist, so what is this ice-tea version you speak of?

[Tacachale]

As far as accreditation goes, there are other bodies that accredit private schools besides SACS. Most are accredited with FCIS/NAIS and/or a Christian school accrediting body.

I looked into all of this back when I first began thinking about opening a school in the mid-1990s.  But I don’t have much faith in these accrediting organizations.  I taught briefly at a couple of private schools that had ACSI accreditation.  One school used Bob Jones University geography textbooks that were copyrighted in 1996 but still had chapters covering the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact nations.  The other school I worked at did not allow homework and gave me 2 class sets of A Beka textbooks with which I was supposed to teach science for grades 7-12.  But it didn’t matter.  No more than a dozen of the 150 or so students could read so textbooks were a waste of time.  And students at this school were not grouped into classes based on their age or even their grade level.  They were grouped based on their personality so the worst of the troublemakers were never in the same class where they could kill each other.

None of the other Christian schools whose teaching jobs I interviewed for back in the 1990s had a school library or science lab supplies, and if they had a computer lab the hardware was at least 10 years old.  I used to support taxpayer-funded vouchers for private schools, but I don’t anymore because of my experience with Jacksonville’s Christian schools.

You may not have any faith in the accrediting bodies, but I can guarantee you that parents paying their hard earned money to send their kids to private schools are going to want more than your own say-so that the school is on the up and up.

When Providence opened in 1998 it cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $6 million.

If you are so knowledgeable, tell me what exactly the money spent on.  How much went into the pastor’s pocket?

Do your own homework.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/1996/07/15/story2.html
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/1998/07/06/story4.html

And that $6 million was on top of the land the school is on, which the school already owned.

While there are many poor or mediocre schools in the area, there are also excellent ones,

With excellent tuition costs as well.  Very few people in Jacksonville can afford the likes of Bolles or Episcopal.

How are you going to keep your costs down to offer a more affordable tuition, while still maintaining the rigorous academic standards you outline above?

And if you think that your little school will be comparable to or better than Stanton, Episcopal, and Bolles right off the bat, you're being as silly as some of the other comments on this thread.

Have I said my school would be as good as Stanton, Episcopal or Bolles right off the bat?  No.  So take your snide attitude and shove it.

Your initial statements about your academic plans certainly suggest a very high quality program. Additionally, your comments about Stanton suggest you don't think much of it, and elsewhere you said most Christian schools were sub par and "all a waste of money". All together this implies you intend your school to be better. If you don't like people responding to your questions, don't ask them in the first place.

[AmyLynne]

The whole AP thing is a little overblown though, IMO.  My sister went to a school that was IB down in Hillsborough County, so all her classes were AP.  She still had to take many of those classes again at FSU even though she did well on the AP exams.  She still ended up going to college for 4 years even though sh ewas full time and came in with all those AP classes.  I took many AP classes in high school too and I don't feel like the curriculum was so much better than the honors classes or that it put me ahead any in college.  Just my experience though.  AP classes wouldn't sell me on a school, and the lack of Phys Ed and music would concern me.  I have no idea if there's a market or not for this school, it wouldn't be the school of my choice for my child and some great points about who the school is competing with and funding have also been made.

It's a whole catch 22 thing with the ap classes! You can't get into most schools without the added gpa that the ap classes give you.  Except now almost all schools are cutting down on the number of ap credits they they will accept. So students are stuck taking the same classes over again anyway!

[jax-native68]

You may not have any faith in the accrediting bodies, but I can guarantee you that parents paying their hard earned money to send their kids to private schools are going to want more than your own say-so that the school is on the up and up.

As far as Christian schools are concerned most parents don’t care about accreditation.  A parent for a student I had at the first school I taught at (back before the McKay Scholarship was around so parents themselves were paying for tuition) agreed with me that the curriculum at the school was garbage and she admitted that her son wasn’t learning anything.  But at the same time she wanted her son in a Christian school because she didn’t want her son in a public school environment.

But then I was fired when I refused to give out good report card grades just to keep the parents happy and the tuition money coming in.

Do your own homework.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/1996/07/15/story2.html
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/1998/07/06/story4.html

I am not the one making the claim about the cost of opening a private school, you are.  So why should I do your research?

And note: “New Life Christian Fellowship on the Southside breaks ground July 14 on a $6 million church school and day care center.”

“And daycare center”.  The government does heavily regulate daycare providers so it is likely that this is where the church spent a lot of the its $6 million.  My school will not have a daycare of any kind.

This school also has a 133000 square foot facilty and can enroll 900 students.  My school would likely start with a single class of 7th graders and enrollment would be capped at 120 to 150 students.  Additional grades would be added over time.

And that $6 million was on top of the land the school is on, which the school already owned.

Where is the law that says a private school has to own its own property?  Neither of the schools I worked at did.

How are you going to keep your costs down to offer a more affordable tuition, while still maintaining the rigorous academic standards you outline above?

What costs do you think are going to be so outrageous?

I was planning for a yearly budget that had $8-15 per square foot for building rent (up to 4000 square feet; bag lunches so no kitchen or cafeteria); $1000 a month for JEA; $100 a month for phone; $12-18,000 each for teacher salaries (4 teachers) with me serving as both a teacher and the administrator for no additional pay and $10,000 or so per year for a secretary.  I included something like $120 per student for textbooks and classroom supplies.  I don’t remember now what I was budgeting for insurance- something like $100 per year per student. Total budget was going to be about $360,000 per year for up to 120 students.  Tuition was going to be around $3000 per student per year.

Your initial statements about your academic plans certainly suggest a very high quality program. Additionally, your comments about Stanton suggest you don't think much of it, and elsewhere you said most Christian schools were sub par and "all a waste of money". All together this implies you intend your school to be better. If you don't like people responding to your questions, don't ask them in the first place.

Stanton is great when compared to other public schools and it has usually been the equal of Bolles in student output.  But Stanton has never become what my class was promised when I enrolled in 1981.

And I stand by my remark.  You claim that I am not able to do what I set out to do when you don’t me from Adam and thus don’t have a clue what my abilities are.

[iluvolives]

I think there is a market for a school like this- although I think you would do better by not having any religous affiliation similar to Bolles, that way you can draw from a wider group of people. I would assume there are a lot of parents who fall between "not wanting to send my kids to public school" and "not being able to afford one of the more expensive private schools" groups.  Especially with the difficulty of getting students into Stanton these days.

PS- I went to Stanton and FSU and had all my AP classes approved for credits- so whoever mentioned they didn't accept them probaby didn't get a high enough score on the exams.

[avs]

I went to Stanton and FSU and had all my AP classes approved for credits- so whoever mentioned they didn't accept them probaby didn't get a high enough score on the exams

haha!  no, good guess though - she got high scores on all of her tests and all of them should have been accepted.  I called her and asked her.  It has to do with course descriptions.  Incidentally,  I knew people at UF who had passed their AP exams with good scores and who also had to retake classes.