Jacksonville mayor comes out against new toll road

[north miami]

North Miami, are you saying it will or will not get built?

I note that this corridor proposal which truly sputtered for decades has in fact decidedly gone forward within the the Blanding/10 section during the past decade. That was what the COE presence at the ground breaking ceremony was about.
I say this existing recently upgraded roadway will expand and indeed,the balance of the Beltway will be built.Yes.

Tolls are a ruse. The loftier elements are over our collective heads or at least rendered sidelined, and in classic fashion,alarm and scrutiny come just a wee bit too late.

Discerning citizens have either remain stunned and transfixed,resigned to an impending change billed as not all that much to worry about,since after all it would be years before "it" happened,or moved out or refrained from moving in.

Look over the Branan Chaffee Sector Plan and the Lake Asbury Sector Plan and related St Johns County proceedings.

I was treated as a heretic among the conservation/growth management public interest community during the era of my early warnings.Eventually,as events emerged,I was granted the coveted City of Jacksonville Mayors Environmental Luncheon Mimi & Lee Adams award for supposed predictive capability and bravery at being at odds with "Officials"....including the man on stage who shook my hand at the ceremony.
The award is of no positive value.Got a dandy $$$ Adams art piece though along with a priceless healthy newfound awareness,sense of futility.

And the Florida Wildlife Federation Northeast office,envisioned in part to protect against Brannon Chaffee becomming a "de-facto" beltway,became reality.To this day The FWF and NE office is the very most,likely only credible advocate for Community,Planning,Recreation Lands,River Advocacy but who here reading this knows of any of this??(The early RiverKeeper Board produced nothing but blank faces when presented with the Beltway proposal.....)

Shifting the Beltway corridor away from existing Conservation Lands,Sector Plan oversight was a heroic Federation effort.Charlie Crist embraced the Federation, supported prudent planning,DCA,the Conservation Lands off limits in the face of general Crist Beltway support but the the greater impacts to surrounding community,vast wetland mitigation schemes still at issue.

My gut is the beltway will happen.So be it-almost worth loosing the Illusion.My gut also tells me socio/enviro/economic realities are such that there won't be many more projects like it in the future. And remotely possible the experience will help other communities,regions side step or greatly alter their future compared to what we made for ourselves,in a different season,mostly 'under the radar screen'.

[Dashing Dan]

There is no reasonable way that this project can be justified. 

The toll issue is an attempt to justify it in a manner that is not at all reasonable.

If the Mayor of Jacksonville had backed away from the Kings Avenue Garage, I do not believe that it could have been built.  The reason(s) that he would have given for backing away would not have mattered.

[dougskiles]

What would it take to kill the project forever?

[tufsu1]

Tufsu   are you involved in BC corridor east-west roadway/wetland belt ?

I have no money or stake in the BC corridor

[tufsu1]

What would it take to kill the project forever?

I seriously doubt that's even possible....it could come out of the adopted LRTP (although that's a steep hill to climb)...and could still be put back in later.

[Dashing Dan]

What would it take to kill the project forever?

I seriously doubt that's even possible....it could come out of the adopted LRTP (although that's a steep hill to climb)...and could still be put back in later.

The project is already dead but a lot of people aren't willing to admit it yet.  Welcome to "Weekend at Bernie's!" 

[Dashing Dan]

For the record I am generally in favor of tolls as a means for financing new roadway construction projects. 

[tufsu1]

Hmm.  Is that strictly true?  I thought you were on the TPO board that recommended, some say pushed the outer beltway?

sorry...I am hardly on the board...that is reserved for elected officials and oter agency board heads...nor am I on any of the committees

http://www.northfloridatpo.com/north_florida_tpo/board_committees/

[tufsu1]

For the record I am generally in favor of tolls as a means for financing new roadway construction projects. 

agreed...and this is the problem I have with the Mayor's statement...he didn't say he's opposed to the new road...he said he was opposed to the tolls.

btw...how would a public-private partnership work without tolls?

[tufsu1]

Stephen...stop playing games...why is it ok for you to parse words, but not others?

Fact is, my firm has done work on behalf of the TPO as a consultant....but I am not (nor ever have been) on the board/committees or staff of the agency.

All I have tried to do in this thread is inform people regarding the history and some of the data related to the Outer Beltway and the shorter Branan Field-Chafee Expressway.

[north miami]

Stephen...stop playing games...why is it ok for you to parse words, but not others?

Fact is, my firm has done work on behalf of the TPO as a consultant....but I am not (nor ever have been) on the board/committees or staff of the agency.

All I have tried to do in this thread is inform people regarding the history and some of the data related to the Outer Beltway and the shorter Branan Field-Chafee Expressway.

The role of Planners & Consultants as key as formal Board,Committee figureheads.Once obscure to the general public,everything is different now and this P&C component worthy of scrutiny.

[north miami]

Elsewhere

Stop The Beltway. Go The Betterway


     www.gothebetterway.org/Home.html

[tufsu1]

TUFSU:

huh?

Im just asking for clarity.  I had thought you to say that you were a member of the TPO/MPO.  In this thread you have stated several times that it was a high priority of that organization.

I wasnt aware that your firm did work for them, but is it correct to say that you have never been a member of the TPO/MPO?

The TPO is a federally-mandated agency, so I guess all taxpayers are "members"...but no, I have never been on the board or any of its committees.

As far as the outer beltway being a top priority of the organization, that info. is public...and can be found here:

http://www.northfloridatpo.com/images/uploads/general/2011%20LOPP%20-%20Adopted%206-9-11.pdf

[Jaxson]

I was a teenager when the tolls came down in Duval County.  I still remember the toll coupon book that my mother kept in her car.  I did not even begin to drive until after the tolls went away.  Since then, I am sure that there is a generation of North Floridians who do not have a clue what this city was like when we had tolls.  I predict that tolls will become a more viable option for our area as time goes by and people forget their history.  Tommy Hazouri was right when he said that his obituary is destined to say that he helped rid our city of tolls.  I believe, however, that future generations will not have the same visceral reaction to the possibility of tolls...  It's not a matter of if, but when...

[Dashing Dan]

For the record I am generally in favor of tolls as a means for financing new roadway construction projects. 

agreed...and this is the problem I have with the Mayor's statement...he didn't say he's opposed to the new road...he said he was opposed to the tolls.

btw...how would a public-private partnership work without tolls?

How would a public private partnership work without a private partner?  That's what the mayor wants to know.