How To Design A Transportation Center

[Ralph W]

The Skyway went somewhere for me last night.

Drove downtown last night 1 1/2 hours before the fireworks. What a mistake. I know all about the one way streets. What a mistake. Drove past parking lots which were filling up with people with a ten spot burning a hole in their pocket. What a mistake. Went around and a round, further and further from the center of action. What a mistake. Not a parking slot on the street was available, yet people were walking from as far away as State St. By the way - What's with all those reserved spots for city vehicles?

Decided to drive back to the King St. Parking Garage. Bulls eye! Got a parking space first try. NOT for $10 bucks either - yuck, yuck.

Walked over to the Skyway station. Got out my dimes and guess what? The machine was broken and you could walk right in. Up the escalator, 6 minute wait for the car, two stops later took the escalator to the street and walked the 2 blocks to Friendship Fountain. Enjoyed the fountain and the lights - the music was a little too much like the sound of a whole car boombox. Set up our chairs on the grass with a jillion other people and sat back and enjoyed the fireworks show. It wasn't long enough and I was disappointed there was no waterfall fireworks but that's what happens when your city runs out of money. Still, it was a good show.

A 2 block walk back to the Skyway station, 50 cents in the farebox (I don't have my 10 cent senior card yet) another 6 minute wait for the car and back to the King St. station.

Looking down on all those people trying to get out of town in their cars was a hoot. Horns continuously blaring, stop and go - mostly stop. Throngs of people walking in the street kept all those with close-in parking from getting out. Reminded me of the evacuation fiasco a few years back.

My wife and I got to participate at minimal cost because we have the skyway and I could find the parking lot. A word to the wise - we have a good thing that could only be made better with the completion of the system

[jcjohnpaint]

OK, there have been several threads the last few weeks on the proposed Transportation Center, and I still don't see what problem it is a solution for.  I brought this up on an earlier thread and was told it would "fix" Jacksonville's poor public transportation. How?  Nobody rides the Skyway, few people take Amtrak, Greyhound isn't the classiest of operations.  How does having all of these modes in one spot make any of them any better?  Will the ITC mean the buses will now run on time?  Will the ITC make people leave their cars at home and take the train?  Will the ITC make the Skyway actually go where people want to go?  The whole thing should just be scrapped.

Ok picture this. You have came to JAcksonville to visit and you know no one here. You get off your train at am"Shack" out in the middle of nowhere and you need to get DT. How do you suppose you will get there? Probably take a twenty dollar cab ride.  Or if you caught bus here and need to get the train station? Everything being in one spot is a convinence factor. Not just for Jacksonville, but for all passengers. Amtrack has NO BUSINESS out there and im not sure whose bright idea that was.  People hate Jacksonville because it is so spread out and logistically screwed up. And I agree. Having everything intergrated in spot, and done the right way would a PLUS for all

To be honest with you I wouldn't get out- just go somewhere better given that stop. 

[duvaldude08]

OK, there have been several threads the last few weeks on the proposed Transportation Center, and I still don't see what problem it is a solution for.  I brought this up on an earlier thread and was told it would "fix" Jacksonville's poor public transportation. How?  Nobody rides the Skyway, few people take Amtrak, Greyhound isn't the classiest of operations.  How does having all of these modes in one spot make any of them any better?  Will the ITC mean the buses will now run on time?  Will the ITC make people leave their cars at home and take the train?  Will the ITC make the Skyway actually go where people want to go?  The whole thing should just be scrapped.

Ok picture this. You have came to JAcksonville to visit and you know no one here. You get off your train at am"Shack" out in the middle of nowhere and you need to get DT. How do you suppose you will get there? Probably take a twenty dollar cab ride.  Or if you caught bus here and need to get the train station? Everything being in one spot is a convinence factor. Not just for Jacksonville, but for all passengers. Amtrack has NO BUSINESS out there and im not sure whose bright idea that was.  People hate Jacksonville because it is so spread out and logistically screwed up. And I agree. Having everything intergrated in spot, and done the right way would a PLUS for all

To be honest with you I wouldn't get out- just go somewhere better given that stop.

LOL

[Jaxson]

OK, there have been several threads the last few weeks on the proposed Transportation Center, and I still don't see what problem it is a solution for.  I brought this up on an earlier thread and was told it would "fix" Jacksonville's poor public transportation. How?  Nobody rides the Skyway, few people take Amtrak, Greyhound isn't the classiest of operations.  How does having all of these modes in one spot make any of them any better?  Will the ITC mean the buses will now run on time?  Will the ITC make people leave their cars at home and take the train?  Will the ITC make the Skyway actually go where people want to go?  The whole thing should just be scrapped.

And why do few Jacksonville residents take Amtrak?  This is for two major reasons:
1. Many people do not know that we have passenger rail service that serves Jacksonville.  Because the Amtrak station is about as remote as a Callahan chicken shack, we are dealing with the old 'out of sight, out of mind' situation. 
2. Those who know of Amtrak know how horrible the current facility is. Ever since 1974, Amtrak has been running out of a shed.  There are no decent facilities for ground transportation, car rentals, dining or lodging.  And, with many train passengers from the Northeast coming into Florida via Amtrak and vice versa, this is a really crappy first impression of have of Jacksonville - even as a stopover.

This is what is frustrating.  There has been nothing but talk about this issue and very little action.  And, when a solution is proposed, it ends up being a boondoggle that will likely be shot down or treated like a can to be kicked down the road another ten miles.  IMHO, it is disgusting that we cannot make a simple move like shifting the Amtrak station to downtown where it would best serve our city and best serve rail passengers.

[finehoe]

Thanks for the responses, but they read to me as reasons to relocate the Amtrak station downtown (which I wholeheartedly agree with), not as reasons to construct an "intermodal transportation center".  Yes, if the Amshack was downtown it would be nice to have a 'once-stop shopping' approach, but please recognize that these are two different issues, not one and the same.

[fsujax]

The Jacksonville Amtrak terminal had approximately 72,000 boardings and alightings in 2010. Wonder how much better it would do if it were Downtown? By the way that makes us 5th in the state 1. Sanford (Auto-train) 2. Orlando 3. Tampa 4. Miami 5. Jacksonville 6. West Palm Beach

[JeffreyS]

The Jacksonville Amtrak terminal had approximately 72,000 boardings and alightings in 2010. Wonder how much better it would do if it were Downtown? By the way that makes us 5th in the state 1. Sanford (Auto-train) 2. Orlando 3. Tampa 4. Miami 5. Jacksonville 6. West Palm Beach

I had no idea. We have to get this thing moved yesterday.  Stephen Dare your transition committee should make moving Amtrak downtown a top priority.  Before even any changes to the convention center.  Every argument for every transit proposal would be greatly improved with 72,000 people getting on and off of the train in downtown. 

1. Get Amtrak downtown.
2. Get buses at the Amtrak platform.
3. Make the access to the skyway as easy as we can.
4. Streetcar keep plan moving forward.

[iMarvin]

The Jacksonville Amtrak terminal had approximately 72,000 boardings and alightings in 2010. Wonder how much better it would do if it were Downtown? By the way that makes us 5th in the state 1. Sanford (Auto-train) 2. Orlando 3. Tampa 4. Miami 5. Jacksonville 6. West Palm Beach

That sounds about right. We're usually behind the other big cities in rankings. (Except for Sanford)

I had no idea. We have to get this thing moved yesterday.  Stephen Dare your transition committee should make moving Amtrak downtown a top priority.  Before even any changes to the convention center.  Every argument for every transit proposal would be greatly improved with 72,000 people getting on and off of the train in downtown. 

1. Get Amtrak downtown.
2. Get buses at the Amtrak platform.
3. Make the access to the skyway as easy as we can.
4. Streetcar keep plan moving forward.

I agree with that list but still wish some tweaks will be made to the actual streetcar route.

[Charles Hunter]

I remember seeing a JTA drawing years ago that showed Greyhound buses parked around the Union Terminal building, sharing the waiting and ticket area inside.  I heard that the Powers That Be didn't want Greyhound passengers next to the Convention Center.  If we could move the CC, we could bring Greyhound where it belongs.

[Ocklawaha]

I remember seeing a JTA drawing years ago that showed Greyhound buses parked around the Union Terminal building, sharing the waiting and ticket area inside.  I heard that the Powers That Be didn't want Greyhound passengers next to the Convention Center.  If we could move the CC, we could bring Greyhound where it belongs.

"Damn common sense! Full speed ahead!"  ...love JTA

OCKLAWAHA

[comncense]

Has anyone seen Denver's Union Station website? http://unionstationdenver.com/

Give me this in Downtown Jax any day.

[thelakelander]

^We did an article on Denver's Union Station last year: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jan-union-station-neighborhood-why-not-jacksonville







It's a great example of what we're not doing by applying a suburban design mindset to our own layout.  Every urban project, especially one as large as the JRTC, should be designed fit in with its surroundings and promote the addition of ancillary urban infill.

[iMarvin]

Has anyone seen Denver's Union Station website? http://unionstationdenver.com/

Give me this in Downtown Jax any day.

After clicking the link, I was conused about the layout of it. I couldn't find a good picture of it. Then...

^We did an article on Denver's Union Station last year: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jan-union-station-neighborhood-why-not-jacksonville







It's a great example of what we're not doing by applying a suburban design mindset to our own layout.  Every urban project, especially one as large as the JRTC, should be designed fit in with its surroundings and promote the addition of ancillary urban infill.

Once this was posted, I understood it. The only difference that I can see between ours and theirs is that their modes of transportation touch instead of being spread out and separated by different streets. It really wouldn't take much for JTA to redesign their transportation center to something similar like this.

[thelakelander]

^Their modes touch, the distance between the modes is significantly shorter, the overall footprint is urban and pedestrian scale (we're building retention ponds for crying out loud) at street level and they've accounted for the seamless integration of transit oriented development.

[ChriswUfGator]

You have to include a convention center plan in order to consolidate.  If we can get the old courthouse site done great.  If not do we really want to move all of our convention activities out to the Morocco Shrine Auditorium?

A single platform to walk all transit modes would be best.

You realize Veterans' Arena was built specifically as convention/flex space, right? The Hyatt also has nearly as much convention space as the current convention center does. I really don't follow how, when we already have 3 of these facilities competing with each other in one small downtown at taxpayer expense, how closing one is somehow going to be the end of the world.