Two Shot in Shootout at 17th and Laura St.

[NotNow]

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-06-24/story/two-shot-thursday-night-shooting-jacksonville


Two men ages 20 and 23 were shot late Thursday at North Laura and West 17th streets after five men rolled up in a new tan Chevrolet Tahoe and just "started shooting everywhere," according to the police report.

Police were called to the scene at 7 p.m. to find one North Jacksonville man lying in the middle of West 17th Street with a gunshot wound to his right leg and refusing to give any information about who shot him, according to the police report. A second North Jacksonville man was found shot in a backyard nearby. A witness told police that five men dressed all in black circled the block twice in the Tahoe, then jumped out and started shooting.

Numerous shell casings were found in the street by police, and bullet holes were found in two nearby homes and a car windshield, but no one else was injured. Police said they also found plastic bags of marijuana and crack cocaine near one of the shooting victims as well as a small amount of cocaine nearby.

A search of the neighborhood uncovered a rifle and more drugs behind a home on West 17th Street, police said. Both gunshot victims were taken to Shands Jacksonville with non life-threatening injuries, police said.

Dan Scanlan/ The Times-Union



Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-06-24/story/two-shot-thursday-night-shooting-jacksonville#ixzz1QLBE5zNM
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This sounds like a dangerous neighborhood.  No family members talking about witnessing this shooting.  No one is talking now.  No one who was outside saw a thing.  Hmmm, doesn't this area sound familiar?

[north miami]

A hint to dashed 'Bold City' potential,outlying county attraction. Tough one.

[acme54321]

A hint to dashed 'Bold City' potential,outlying county attraction. Tough one.

Translation?

[NotNow]

This is the block where Kiko Battles was killed in a confrontation with Police Officers a few years back.  The evidence and the testimony of witnesses who were either with Battles or came forward that night gave a clear picture of the events that led to the Officers actions being found justified by separate investigations.  Other witnesses, who came forward in the media in the following days, made other claims which contradicted each other and the physical evidence.  Some here made quite an impassioned argument that they believed the Officers were in the wrong, and that Battles, a recently released unemployed convicted felon who possessed a stolen handgun in the incident, was murdered by the Officers. 

The point of posting this story is not to rehash that incident, but to remind some here that the shooting and killing continues in this area and others.  And the posturing taken when the Police are protecting the innocent shows their anti Police bias.  We hear nothing when these young men rob, shoot, and kill each other, only when the opportunity exists to take advantage of their prejudices will they speak up.

Now that the noisemakers are identified, we should ignore them and discuss REAL solutions to this problem.

[north miami]

A hint to dashed 'Bold City' potential,outlying county attraction. Tough one.

Translation?

Duval County crime,the presence of "bad"areas,has been a driver behind Clay,St. Johns county growth.

[NotNow]

The facts speak for themselves.

[duvaldude08]

A hint to dashed 'Bold City' potential,outlying county attraction. Tough one.

Translation?

Duval County crime,the presence of "bad"areas,has been a driver behind Clay,St. Johns county growth.

Sad thing that once those area start to heavily populate, the crime will follow. More people, more crime. Then what?

[strider]

NotNow, what this means to me is that JSO is not being very successful in reducing crime in that area.  Or perhaps, JSO has decided to use "containment" again (or still)?  As someone who drives through that area regularly (mostly East side though), the dealing, ETC.  is obvious and pretty blatant.  And comparing the shooting of Kiko to this is more like comparing the fact that one JSO officer is dirty (as an example) so then every officer who worked with that officer is dirty.  Doesn't mean it is true, just shows how narrow minded the person saying it really is.

[NotNow]

NotNow, what this means to me is that JSO is not being very successful in reducing crime in that area.  Or perhaps, JSO has decided to use "containment" again (or still)?  As someone who drives through that area regularly (mostly East side though), the dealing, ETC.  is obvious and pretty blatant.  And comparing the shooting of Kiko to this is more like comparing the fact that one JSO officer is dirty (as an example) so then every officer who worked with that officer is dirty.  Doesn't mean it is true, just shows how narrow minded the person saying it really is.

You are right, JSO has not been very successful in that area.  I believe that is due to a number of reasons.  The main reason IMHO is that criminal enterprise is entrenched in the area.  Crime is accepted and is tolerated in many of the families who reside there.  There are several ways to combat this.  JSO usually uses the method of flooding an area with Officers and enforcing all laws.   Tight and constant enforcement does work, but does not attack the base cause of the problem.  It is really all that falls within the direct power of a police force though.  What could help is to pair "quality of life" enforcement with family intervention and services along with intensive education intervention in schools for high risk students.  But that takes cooperation, and a lot of it.  And money, and a lot of it.  And people.  We are short on all of those things.

As for your analysis of my comparison... I would argue that Battles was a recently released unemployed convicted felon who was in possession of a stolen firearm in an area that you just described as crime ridden, who committed more felonies by just possession of the stolen firearm and resisting the Police in performing their duties.  In my view, this is directly comparable to the thoughtless spraying of bullets by criminals against each other in the same neighborhood.  Had Officers stopped these shooters, exactly the same scenario as that involving Battles might have played out.   Somehow, you see this as equal to comparing Police Officers (I won't go through all of the background testing and training) who serve this city daily without a hint of wrongdoing being equal to those very few Officers who abandon their oath and commit criminal acts (usually to be turned in and arrested by those same honest Officers).  The difference in these two comparisons is very obvious to me.  Narrow minded seems to be in the eyes of the beholder.

[NotNow]

If you have a viewpoint or an idea on the subject, I would love to hear it. 

It just amazes me how determined you are to call others racist and other names while offering no substance of your own.  But at least you are predictible. 

[NotNow]

It is obvious that you are very emotional and that you want to make this personal.  Your perceptions are skewed.  I really don't care what you "want to hear".  There is no value in conversing with you as we will just rehash the same old points. 

I'll repeat myself, if you have something useful to add then there is conversation.  I am always willing to intelligently exchange ideas.  To put words in my mouth and start calling me names is childish and says more about you than me. 

[strider]

NotNow, what this means to me is that JSO is not being very successful in reducing crime in that area.  Or perhaps, JSO has decided to use "containment" again (or still)?  As someone who drives through that area regularly (mostly East side though), the dealing, ETC.  is obvious and pretty blatant.  And comparing the shooting of Kiko to this is more like comparing the fact that one JSO officer is dirty (as an example) so then every officer who worked with that officer is dirty.  Doesn't mean it is true, just shows how narrow minded the person saying it really is.

You are right, JSO has not been very successful in that area.  I believe that is due to a number of reasons.  The main reason IMHO is that criminal enterprise is entrenched in the area.  Crime is accepted and is tolerated in many of the families who reside there.  There are several ways to combat this.  JSO usually uses the method of flooding an area with Officers and enforcing all laws.   Tight and constant enforcement does work, but does not attack the base cause of the problem.  It is really all that falls within the direct power of a police force though.  What could help is to pair "quality of life" enforcement with family intervention and services along with intensive education intervention in schools for high risk students.  But that takes cooperation, and a lot of it.  And money, and a lot of it.  And people.  We are short on all of those things.

As for your analysis of my comparison... I would argue that Battles was a recently released unemployed convicted felon who was in possession of a stolen firearm in an area that you just described as crime ridden, who committed more felonies by just possession of the stolen firearm and resisting the Police in performing their duties.  In my view, this is directly comparable to the thoughtless spraying of bullets by criminals against each other in the same neighborhood.  Had Officers stopped these shooters, exactly the same scenario as that involving Battles might have played out.   Somehow, you see this as equal to comparing Police Officers (I won't go through all of the background testing and training) who serve this city daily without a hint of wrongdoing being equal to those very few Officers who abandon their oath and commit criminal acts (usually to be turned in and arrested by those same honest Officers).  The difference in these two comparisons is very obvious to me.  Narrow minded seems to be in the eyes of the beholder.

If I hadn't had a number of officers tell me, my friends and others I know that we were crazy to be in Springfield, their dumping ground,  and that we should leave; if I had not had officers tell me about the good old days here in Springfield and what they did and did not do, your arguments would make more sense. They might even be believable. 

I somehow get from your post above that you think it would be better if officers shot more in community policing stops and that somehow this would make things better and it less likely to have shootings of one criminal element against another because the police would have shot the "bad" guys already.  You don't think that this type of mentality is the reason this community does not trust the police? I am beginning to understand why the JSO has such a hard time being successful in communities like this one.

[NotNow]

Your perceptions are your own.  I have been a Police Officer for more than two decades and I am very proud of my work.  I have served all of my adult life in either the military or Police work.  I am a little offended at your assumptions that I "want shootings".  Many years of training and effort to avoid violence while being prepared to face it stand behind my thinking and my opinions.  I will try to remember that you are not aware of any of that, and are speaking from inexperience.   I learned long ago to accept that there will always be those that hate what I do, and therefore hate myself and other Officers as well.  Good luck in your future endeavors.