Ten Affordable Fixes For Transportation In Jacksonville

[Dashing Dan]

We might need to start small, like with a resolution of intent that the city could adopt.  But I definitely think that we are onto something!  At one of the stops on the Pub Crawl, maybe we could talk about it some more.

[thelakelander]

There's a good chance I'll be going out of town tomorrow night, so I'm not sure I'm going to be able to make this month's crawl.  Nevertheless, we'll definitely need to get together.  In the meantime, I just come across this conversion of an existing street in DT Clearwater into a bikeway.  Historically, the freight tracks ran down the center with an auto lane on each side.  The context sensitive streets approach used replaced one of the auto travel lanes.




http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=191618

[Dashing Dan]

I am planning to be at the transportation transition meeting tomorrow.

As a planner I like those images but as a cyclist I find them a little frightening.

[Ralph W]

The train WILL stay on its side of the line. You just have to make sure you stay on your side.

[Ocklawaha]

  Central Florida



  JACKSONVILLE... ANY QUESTIONS?


OCKLAWAHA

[duvaldude08]

From some reason we got away from the walkways. The ones that we do have area old as hell and unattractive. They are underutilized as well.

[thelakelander]

They are underutilized because they were not designed with mass transit, network connectivity and land use integration in mind. No matter what the mode is, its never a good idea to plop something in place without properly thinking about the surrounding environment.

[Dashing Dan]

Amen to that!

[malseedj]

Less than 100 people use the AMTRAK to visit or depart from Jacksonville on a daily basis. Restoring the Palmetto train and extending it from its current terminus in Savannah may add another 30 passengers per day. I have checked the passenger figures at all stations from DC to Jacksonville and the future of transportation does not lie in AMTRAK.

We can move the Existing Grayhound Bus Terminal next to the existing AMTRAK station and integrate their services.  All the plans for development of a commuter rail system in Jacksonville overlook a basic issue.  There is very little track time available currently for freight.  Passenger Rail is a losing venture for railroads.  Who is going to pay for the availability of track?

Mr. Davis makes some interesting suggestions but the AMTRAK move back to the Prime Osborne is an example of Vision based on lack of reality.

[thelakelander]

malseedj, welcome to the forums.  He's my response to the points you've raised concerning my advocation of passenger rail as an economic catalyst in the future of Jacksonville.  Hopefully, this will clear up any misunderstanding of what's in play locally.

Less than 100 people use the AMTRAK to visit or depart from Jacksonville on a daily basis. Restoring the Palmetto train and extending it from its current terminus in Savannah may add another 30 passengers per day. I have checked the passenger figures at all stations from DC to Jacksonville and the future of transportation does not lie in AMTRAK.

The future of transportation does not lie on any one particular mode.  However, all of our modes should be well interconnected with each other and planned in a manner that promotes sustainability, cost efficiency and economic development.  Time has proven that intermodal transportation centers play a huge role in achieving proper urban connectivity.

We can move the Existing Grayhound Bus Terminal next to the existing AMTRAK station and integrate their services.

What would be the point in moving another mode of our transportation network to an out-of-the-way isolated location?  What type of economic benefit can be expected by further thining out the population density on the streets of downtown?  How would such a move spur TOD in the area around the public investment?

All the plans for development of a commuter rail system in Jacksonville overlook a basic issue.  There is very little track time available currently for freight.  Passenger Rail is a losing venture for railroads.  Who is going to pay for the availability of track?

With any topic, passenger rail included, one must properly evaluate each corridor on an individual basis.  For example, the CSX A line will see a significant reduction in freight use, due to Governor Scott's decision to approve Sunrail.  The lion's share of freight traffic will be relocated to the CSX S line. 


This map clearly shows the rerouting of freight traffic in yellow and the affect  it will have on Jacksonville. Most of the freight trains will head due west from  Jacksonville, instead of the current route south on the A-Line. This will reduce  the amount of freight trains scheduled to travel along Roosevelt Blvd and into  Orange Park. The 61 mile segment being purchased by the State of Florida is  highlighted in blue.

In short, because of Orlando's Sunrail project, Jacksonville has the opportunity to benefit from increased capacity from a reduction of future freight traffic on the rail line paralleling Roosevelt Blvd between DT Jax and Clay County.  For addition background, feel free to read this link:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2006-aug-central-florida-commuter-rail-deal-may-help-jacksonville


City owned S-Line ROW between DT Jacksonville and Gateway Mall.

Second, let's address the S-Line between DT Jacksonville and the Northside.  Track along this corridor was pulled up years ago and now the right-of-way is owned by the City of Jacksonville.  The 2030 Mobility Plan and Fee is expected to generate the funding needed to bring this corridor back to life, which will be instrumental in helping bring redevelopment,  revitalization and job creation to the Northside.  A side benefit would be the city actually leasing this ROW to a short line railroad, which could then utilize it to connect JAXPORT with FEC's Bowden Yard.  Such a move would take trucks off the city's streets and generate revenue needed to substain passenger rail operations.  For more background on the S-Line, here are a few links to visit:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-feb-move-over-billion-dollar-bus-its-s-line-time

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-feb-rebuilding-the-northside-saving-the-s-line

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-apr-csx-jaxport-plan-opens-the-door-for-commuter-rail


CSX's proposed Springfield bypass in Nassau County would divert JAXPORT contain trains around Jacksonville instead of through it.

Third, let's address JAXPORT's rail situation.  The plan here calls for CSX to invest some of their profits from selling their Orlando line in creating a new belt railway north of Jacksonville that would reroute port trains away from the city.  As in the CSX A line situation, this means increased capacity on the existing rail line paralleling North Main Street, south of I-295/9A.  Here is a link to provide you with a little background on this situation:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-apr-csx-jaxport-plan-opens-the-door-for-commuter-rail



FEC and Amtrak working together to return passenger rail back to the East Coast would suggest that some private companies are willing to allow passenger rail operations on their right-of-way.

Now let's address the last proposed commuter rail line, which is the FEC between DT Jax and St. Augustine.  Ironically, FEC has been the one railroad in town that has been very open to allowing passenger rail on its tracks.  Not only in Jax but also in South Florida.  In addition, if the State and Amtrak is successful in gaining funding to return intercity rail to Florida's East Coast, infrastructure would be upgraded to increase capacity needed for both freight and passenger service.  Here are a few links to provide you some background with this particular situation:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-dec-fdot-proposing-118-million-for-amtrakfec-project

Mr. Davis makes some interesting suggestions but the AMTRAK move back to the Prime Osborne is an example of Vision based on lack of reality.

You may not personally like the concept of passenger rail but that does not mean what's being planned and discussed lacks reality.  Without statistical data backing the assumption, the suggestion that there is no capacity or that extra capacity can't be created is simply a personal opinion not based on fact.  Hopefully, the links and information provided in them helps illustrate that what is being advocated didn't just fall off the back of turnip truck.