Skyway on the Move: An exclusive thread on EXPANSION and IMPROVEMENT!

[thelakelander]

^The will of both were tested over the past couple of years with the creation of the 2035 LRTP, Mobility Plan and COJ Visioning Plans.  While I'm sure there will be more debate as the project gets closer to happening, the concept just didn't fall off the turnip truck and right into the mobility plan without being discussed in multiple venues.

[Dashing Dan]

Talk is cheap.  It's going to be a bumpy ride down Park Street.

[thelakelander]

Talk is cheap.  Getting it into the LRTP, developing a funding mechanism for a starter line and getting that approved by council isn't.  Being involved in the middle of all of this, I can tell you it took a few years and a lot of hard work.  Tried doing the same for the skyway and it quickly went down in flames.  Now its going to be up to people like us to make sure that money goes to what its intended to be used for instead of the alternative which would be taking out half of Riverside to widen Park or Riverside Avenues to four or six lanes to deal with growing traffic congestion.  

[JeffreyS]

Talk is cheap.

Gas isn't.

[dougskiles]

I talk up the extension of the Skyway in San Marco because that is where I live and work.  If I were in Riverside, I would be talking up the streetcar line.  If the S-line ran through my neighborhood, I would be talking that up (but I really don't even know off the top of my head where that is...)  I am all for the streetcar line and the S-line and will support them both.  But neither impact me quite as directly.

So, my question is - where are all of the supporters?  Is there a push from RAP to get the streetcar done?  Or from ____ to get the S-line done?

[Dashing Dan]

Streetcar or no streetcar - it would be pretty hard to imagine any road widening projects in Riverside or Avondale.

[JeffreyS]

Oak wouldn't need to be widened as it was designed for the streetcar that used to be there. Oak would serve the Riverside starter line well.

[thelakelander]

Up to recently, Park was listed as a candidate to be widened to 6 lanes through Brooklyn and Riverside Avenue was widened to six lanes a few years back. JTA has also recently looked into putting BRT through Riverside. Projections indicate that both Park and Riverside will be congested in 20 years. There are only so many ways to deal with the problem and still meet the goals of the visioning plans, LRTP and requirements of old SB 360. The streetcar happened to be the cheapest. Doug, every project has an impact on your community in some indirect way. Your neighborhood's skyway extension was removed from the plan because it could have taken the entire plan down (politics). However, I think we all know the skyway won't ultimately be successful until it's fed with riders from a more extensive mass transit system. Things like integrating the bus system with the skyway, streetcars, commuter rail to other neighborhoods, etc. Do just that. So while you should certainly continue to talk up the extension to San Marco, supporting the other lines also help your effort. Dashing Dan, speaking of support for these systems, it was done in the form of individual residents participating in the public venues held for the vision planning process, LRTP process, Mobility Plan, etc. It would be great to have groups like RAP jump on board in the future. Maybe you can help with that? Imo, instead of us being negative about them, as urban core advocates, we should be coming together to push the momentum forward and continuing to build upon the grassroots support already in place.

[thelakelander]

Btw, if you wanted to widen a street through Riverside, the ROW is already available. If I recall, most of Riverside's street ROWs are 80' wide. That's more than enough to get a four lane road in there, at the expense of on-street parking (Five Points included). However, such a solution would not be in the best interest of the community and neither would high frequency BRT or doing nothing.

[danem]

Btw, if you wanted to widen a street through Riverside, the ROW is already available. If I recall, most of Riverside's street ROWs are 80' wide. That's more than enough to get a four lane road in there, at the expense of on-street parking (Five Points included). However, such a solution would not be in the best interest of the community and neither would high frequency BRT or doing nothing.

Might as well add a street car instead. Who wants to worry about getting run over by more rows of cars over there?

That potential congestion issue needs to be hammered on constantly! I was at SJTC the other afternoon on a weekday, where it was once again a constant flow of cars each with one person inside...stop and go...stop and go...as other areas grow and get more popular, that's what's in store for those areas too. Even without as much knowledge of city planning as some of you have, I can't believe anyone wants more of THAT.  

[Ocklawaha]

This is a make-believe thread, but the data in it is serious as a heart attack... As we cuss and discuss the various in's and out's of Skyway and Streetcar it should be remembered that political eyes are on us constantly. Who is the Mayor? You can thank Metrojacksonville for that. Laura Street Beautification, Metrojacksonville again. Stopping the ridiculous JTA plan for elevated bus freeways throughout the city at a $BILLION DOLLARS cost, Your Welcome Jacksonville. Streetcars in Jacksonville? 30+ years of lobbying and work from the Metrojacksonville group.

Now we are talking about logical, defensible, logical, Skyway extension... Who do you think is looking on and who is thinking? Let's get after this and push like hell.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

A HISTORIC FIRE STATION THREATENED WITH COMPLETE DESTRUCTION


A HISTORIC FIRE STATION SAVED AND RECYCLED WITH JUST AN OUNCE OF WILL


THE GRAND PASEO CONCEPT FOR RIVERSIDE PARK/ANNIE LYTLE SKYWAY-BUS STATION

Lake what did you think of the San Marco Station layout concept graphic? Doug?

OCKLAWAHA

[Dashing Dan]

This thread is supposed to be about the skyway.  The poll shows a clear preference.  Let's leave the streetcar discussions for another thread.

[dougskiles]

Lake what did you think of the San Marco Station layout concept graphic? Doug?

I like everything except the bus loop internal to the site.  I believe the JTA buses should continue to transfer at Kings Avenue Station.  As much of the San Marco Station (on Atlantic) should be reserved for retail/office spaces and parking as possible.  A neighborhood shuttle would need to have a stop at the new station, but it wouldn't need to circulate through the site.  It could make a u-turn on Atlantic and stop along the side of the road.

Now - moving to the stadium expansion... I never thought about a loop around the stadium - that is cool.  But, for the sake of frequency of use, I think it would be better to get closer to the arena and baseball stadium and then go into the neighborhood on the north side of the expressway.

[thelakelander]

Ock, I agree with Doug on both points about the skyway being expanded into San Marco and the Stadium/Eastside area. Dashing Dan, we all know that our mass transit modes should be linked and properly integrated. You can't discuss one without acknowledging the other. Maybe it's me, but it sounds like you may not be a fan of the streetcar. That's cool, we'll just have to work around you when it comes to gathering more community support for making sure the money generated for it isn't used for road projects in the urban core. Regarding the skyway and it overcoming political will for expansion, what do you believe is the best method to break the opposition down and how long do you think such a process would take?