Rick Scott's Veto List $615 Million

[Jimmy]

Public debt has never been a problem for the United States.  Nothing has changed. 

But Florida is different than the US.  We can't run a deficit in Florida.  All of our budgets must be balanced.  And since we're talking about the Florida balanced budget, it's little point to talk about China or India.  But go ahead.

[Shwaz]

 

IMO the "beast" is the GoverNOR and his kind

The Governor is doing everything in his power to save this state and make it viable in the new economy.

The boom is over. It's not coming back. It may get worse.

We're competing with China and with India, and we've got huge debt. We're a declining power. The things we had ten years ago, and gotten used to and enjoy, we have to give those back now.


We're in a lot of trouble. Not just here in Florida, but all across the country. We need to tighten our belts. Make the hard cuts. And move forward leaner, and more thrifty into this new age.

Governor Scott is an example to all other Governors on how to get a state fixed.

Sorry, but China is investing in education and green technology- not cutting eduction to give tax breaks to the rich and wealthy corporations.  I do understand what it means to balance a budget, but not making cuts that are geared toward doing nothing more than pleasing his party and the rich.  What this crook is doing is of his interests, not the peoples.  I do agree that we do need to make cuts, but lets be honest with ourselves.  Lets not make cuts in one place to give to our friends in another place.  

You're only kidding, right?

China is riding a full fledged industrial revolution.... They've walked away from almost every environmental discussion because dirty factories run cheap!

And if by education you mean pulling children from their village and forcing them to perform a menial task along an assembly line... Then yes they're leading the way!

[BigGuy219]

Public debt has never been a problem for the United States.  Nothing has changed. 

But Florida is different than the US.  We can't run a deficit in Florida.  All of our budgets must be balanced.  And since we're talking about the Florida balanced budget, it's little point to talk about China or India.  But go ahead.

Jimmy, I only mention it because there has been some talk of a 'bail out' for states. Essentially the Federal government would take over the state debt.

We did this following the Revolutionary War. Crippled the states, allowed the Federal government to take on debt and establish credit.

I think it would be a disaster if the federal government bailed out states. If the states get out of debt, then that threat no longer rooms.

That's why I reference the national debt.

[Jimmy]

But you say that in a way that makes it sound like Florida has debt.  We don't.  Every year we pass a balanced budget.  Sometimes we have to make cuts.  Sometimes we have to raise revenues.  I think we need to do a little of both.  But this governor has chosen a course of cutting spending and cutting revenue.  That's what I have an issue with.  And I'm not alone.

[A-Finnius]

IMO the "beast" is the GoverNOR and his kind

The Governor is doing everything in his power to save this state and make it viable in the new economy.

The boom is over. It's not coming back. It may get worse.

We're competing with China and with India, and we've got huge debt. We're a declining power. The things we had ten years ago, and gotten used to and enjoy, we have to give those back now.


We're in a lot of trouble. Not just here in Florida, but all across the country. We need to tighten our belts. Make the hard cuts. And move forward leaner, and more thrifty into this new age.

Governor Scott is an example to all other Governors on how to get a state fixed.

Sorry, but China is investing in education and green technology- not cutting eduction to give tax breaks to the rich and wealthy corporations.  I do understand what it means to balance a budget, but not making cuts that are geared toward doing nothing more than pleasing his party and the rich.  What this crook is doing is of his interests, not the peoples.  I do agree that we do need to make cuts, but lets be honest with ourselves.  Lets not make cuts in one place to give to our friends in another place.  

You're only kidding, right?

China is riding a full fledged industrial revolution.... They've walked away from almost every environmental discussion because dirty factories run cheap!

And if by education you mean pulling children from their village and forcing them to perform a menial task along an assembly line... Then yes they're leading the way!

For the love of all that's holy.. It's about time someone pointed this out.  List of countries by 2007 emissions

Rank   Country   Annual CO2 emissions[8][9]
(in thousands of metric tonnes)   Percentage of global total
World   29,321,302   100%
1    China[10]   6,534,367.00(2011)   22.30%
2    United States   5,833,381.00(2011)   19.91%
-    European Union (27)   4,177,817.86[11]   14.04%
3    Russia   1,729,357.00(2011)   5.50%
4    India   1,495,362.00(2011)   5.24%
5    Japan   1,214,543.00(2011)   4.28%

[BigGuy219]

But you say that in a way that makes it sound like Florida has debt.  We don't.  Every year we pass a balanced budget.  Sometimes we have to make cuts.  Sometimes we have to raise revenues.  I think we need to do a little of both.  But this governor has chosen a course of cutting spending and cutting revenue.  That's what I have an issue with.  And I'm not alone.

In fairness though, I don't think any budget in the Rick Scott era would meet with your approval.

[Jimmy]

Well, I have an open mind.  Maybe in the next year or two he'll have the notion that he wants to be re-elected.  Those budgets might be more palatable.  

We simply need to raise the revenue and balance the budget.  It's not so hard.  "Let's get to work."

[BigGuy219]

What would you cut in lieu of what the Governor proposes be cut?

I'd cut the tax breaks.  I'd roll those way back.

Why cut tax breaks to fund services?

It punishes success, and rewards failure.

The goal is to put as much money in people's pockets and allow them to purchase the services they want. It sounds like you (and most liberals) want to take everyone's money and choose the services they get.

This is why Rick Scott got elected in the first place. People would rather have their tax cuts and lose services, than pay higher taxes and get services.

It might not be 'right,' but psychologically people want the money in their banks. Even if they could get 'more' for 'less' by letting it be put into a government tax pool for services.

[Tacachale]

Tacachale, if anyone should be mad about the Higher Ed vetoes it is UF and FSU (especially UF who got $0). I really hate to offend any UNF graduates here, but UF and FSU are on a totally different level than UNF. Heck even UCF and USF are on a totally different level.

UF is the #53 rated University in the country by US News (I know their ratings don't use the best methodology) and FSU is #104. Both are in the top 50 best public schools in the country according to the US News rankings.

UNF isn't even in the top 50 schools that don't have doctoral programs schools in the south. That doesn't count schools like UF, FSU, UGA, UNC, and the hundreds of other research schools. So basically UNF isn't even in the top 250 universities in the south.

You complaining about UNF furthers my argument about regionalism. With Florida's population and wealth, both UF and FSU should be top 50 Universities nationally. Yet those schools don't get near the funding that they should because politicians funnel higher ed money to lesser schools in their districts (see USF Poly). UF and FSU are really the only state schools that can keep Florida's brightest students at home, yet we as a state don't invest nearly enough money to enable that to happen. I know I would have gone out of state if my parents weren't FSU alumni and I had been raised a die hard Seminole. However, not everyone is like that and we lose a lot of bright students and future leaders out of state.

Again no offense to any UNF graduates. I know many UNF graduates who are very sharp and are doing quite well, but UNF has no right whatsoever to complain about lack of funding when much better schools are in the same boat.

I don't think we disagree on the fundamental part of this problem. But the real matter is that this affects the integrity of the univeristy system as a whole. It's nice to think about UF and FSU in a vacuum, the "flagships" of the state, but UNF and the other regional schools (USF, UCF, FIU, FAU, UWF, and FGCU) were created for a purpose: there was a deficiency in our university system, which simply couldn't accomodate the volume of students the state produces. Unless they accepted literally hundreds of thousands of students, UF and FSU (and FAMU) can't provide for Florida's higher ed needs by themselves. If it weren't for the newer schools, Florida would lose a LOT more of its best and brightest, regardless of how awesome the flagships were.

The money Scott cut was, unless I'm mistaken, intended specifically for building and infrastructure. Young schools with growing infrastucture needs obviously require money to fund it (and larger schools require more proportionally, of course.) UF and FSU have other needs (and in the case of FSU right now, they have a lot of other needs), but this isn't one of them. In this economy, you'd also expect schools to get their house in order and put out realistic requests. UNF is a young school, and is also well run - it's about the only school in the system that managed its finances well enough to not have to cut programs and lay off employees. And it's not like they were seriously requesting an amount that would hurt the "better" school; it was by any measure modest - seriously, 1.5% of the total. Regardless, that got cut entirely, while certain other projects based in politically powerful senate districts were more protected.

That's the problem right there. An young, up and coming school faced a 100% decrease in its infrastructure request basically for doing what it's supposed to be doing. Decisions like this affect the entire university system, and therefore, the quality of life in the state.

[JeffreyS]

What would you cut in lieu of what the Governor proposes be cut?

I'd cut the tax breaks.  I'd roll those way back.

Why cut tax breaks to fund services?

It punishes success, and rewards failure.

The goal is to put as much money in people's pockets and allow them to purchase the services they want. It sounds like you (and most liberals) want to take everyone's money and choose the services they get.

This is why Rick Scott got elected in the first place. People would rather have their tax cuts and lose services, than pay higher taxes and get services.

It might not be 'right,' but psychologically people want the money in their banks. Even if they could get 'more' for 'less' by letting it be put into a government tax pool for services.

Wanting to go to State schools is failure? Wanting a clean st. Johns river is failure?  Wanting to ride a train is failure?

[CityLife]

IMO the "beast" is the GoverNOR and his kind

The Governor is doing everything in his power to save this state and make it viable in the new economy.

The boom is over. It's not coming back. It may get worse.

We're competing with China and with India, and we've got huge debt. We're a declining power. The things we had ten years ago, and gotten used to and enjoy, we have to give those back now.


We're in a lot of trouble. Not just here in Florida, but all across the country. We need to tighten our belts. Make the hard cuts. And move forward leaner, and more thrifty into this new age.

Governor Scott is an example to all other Governors on how to get a state fixed.

Sorry, but China is investing in education and green technology- not cutting eduction to give tax breaks to the rich and wealthy corporations.  I do understand what it means to balance a budget, but not making cuts that are geared toward doing nothing more than pleasing his party and the rich.  What this crook is doing is of his interests, not the peoples.  I do agree that we do need to make cuts, but lets be honest with ourselves.  Lets not make cuts in one place to give to our friends in another place.  

You're only kidding, right?

China is riding a full fledged industrial revolution.... They've walked away from almost every environmental discussion because dirty factories run cheap!

And if by education you mean pulling children from their village and forcing them to perform a menial task along an assembly line... Then yes they're leading the way!

For the love of all that's holy.. It's about time someone pointed this out.  List of countries by 2007 emissions

Rank   Country   Annual CO2 emissions[8][9]
(in thousands of metric tonnes)   Percentage of global total
World   29,321,302   100%
1    China[10]   6,534,367.00(2011)   22.30%
2    United States   5,833,381.00(2011)   19.91%
-    European Union (27)   4,177,817.86[11]   14.04%
3    Russia   1,729,357.00(2011)   5.50%
4    India   1,495,362.00(2011)   5.24%
5    Japan   1,214,543.00(2011)   4.28%

China population 1,339,724,852
US population 311,430,000

So if you were to look at emissions per capita China's would be WELL less than the US.

Also current investments in Green Technology won't affect emissions levels until several years down the road. China is killing the US in Green Technology and is positioning itself to be the global leader in that area if it already isn't. Please find me one article that says otherwise.

[JeffreyS]

Relax

I'm more of a "the price of freedom is vigilance" guy.

Good debate but I have to go in a bit early tomorrow so good night.

[wsansewjs]

Tacachale, if anyone should be mad about the Higher Ed vetoes it is UF and FSU (especially UF who got $0). I really hate to offend any UNF graduates here, but UF and FSU are on a totally different level than UNF. Heck even UCF and USF are on a totally different level.

UF is the #53 rated University in the country by US News (I know their ratings don't use the best methodology) and FSU is #104. Both are in the top 50 best public schools in the country according to the US News rankings.

UNF isn't even in the top 50 schools that don't have doctoral programs schools in the south. That doesn't count schools like UF, FSU, UGA, UNC, and the hundreds of other research schools. So basically UNF isn't even in the top 250 universities in the south.

You complaining about UNF furthers my argument about regionalism. With Florida's population and wealth, both UF and FSU should be top 50 Universities nationally. Yet those schools don't get near the funding that they should because politicians funnel higher ed money to lesser schools in their districts (see USF Poly). UF and FSU are really the only state schools that can keep Florida's brightest students at home, yet we as a state don't invest nearly enough money to enable that to happen. I know I would have gone out of state if my parents weren't FSU alumni and I had been raised a die hard Seminole. However, not everyone is like that and we lose a lot of bright students and future leaders out of state.

Again no offense to any UNF graduates. I know many UNF graduates who are very sharp and are doing quite well, but UNF has no right whatsoever to complain about lack of funding when much better schools are in the same boat.

I don't think we disagree on the fundamental part of this problem. But the real matter is that this affects the integrity of the univeristy system as a whole. It's nice to think about UF and FSU in a vacuum, the "flagships" of the state, but UNF and the other regional schools (USF, UCF, FIU, FAU, UWF, and FGCU) were created for a purpose: there was a deficiency in our university system, which simply couldn't accomodate the volume of students the state produces. Unless they accepted literally hundreds of thousands of students, UF and FSU (and FAMU) can't provide for Florida's higher ed needs by themselves. If it weren't for the newer schools, Florida would lose a LOT more of its best and brightest, regardless of how awesome the flagships were.

The money Scott cut was, unless I'm mistaken, intended specifically for building and infrastructure. Young schools with growing infrastucture needs obviously require money to fund it (and larger schools require more proportionally, of course.) UF and FSU have other needs (and in the case of FSU right now, they have a lot of other needs), but this isn't one of them. In this economy, you'd also expect schools to get their house in order and put out realistic requests. UNF is a young school, and is also well run - it's about the only school in the system that managed its finances well enough to not have to cut programs and lay off employees. And it's not like they were seriously requesting an amount that would hurt the "better" school; it was by any measure modest - seriously, 1.5% of the total. Regardless, that got cut entirely, while certain other projects based in politically powerful senate districts were more protected.

That's the problem right there. An young, up and coming school faced a 100% decrease in its infrastructure request basically for doing what it's supposed to be doing. Decisions like this affect the entire university system, and therefore, the quality of life in the state.

To CityLife, your post made me feel like shit after graduating with a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Graphic Design / Digital Media. UNF has successfully managed to survive without collapsing its own few departments during the economic recession's pressure while other Florida universities are suffering.

To Tacachale, thank you for trying to defend UNF and other "non-higher" standard education universities.

-Josh

[BigGuy219]

UNF lost $1.9 million dollars.

I guess they'll have to cancel enrollment for the Fall 2011 semester, fire all the faculty and staff, and board up all the buildings.

...oh wait. None of that is going to happen. They're fine.

[CityLife]

Tacachale, if anyone should be mad about the Higher Ed vetoes it is UF and FSU (especially UF who got $0). I really hate to offend any UNF graduates here, but UF and FSU are on a totally different level than UNF. Heck even UCF and USF are on a totally different level.

UF is the #53 rated University in the country by US News (I know their ratings don't use the best methodology) and FSU is #104. Both are in the top 50 best public schools in the country according to the US News rankings.

UNF isn't even in the top 50 schools that don't have doctoral programs schools in the south. That doesn't count schools like UF, FSU, UGA, UNC, and the hundreds of other research schools. So basically UNF isn't even in the top 250 universities in the south.

You complaining about UNF furthers my argument about regionalism. With Florida's population and wealth, both UF and FSU should be top 50 Universities nationally. Yet those schools don't get near the funding that they should because politicians funnel higher ed money to lesser schools in their districts (see USF Poly). UF and FSU are really the only state schools that can keep Florida's brightest students at home, yet we as a state don't invest nearly enough money to enable that to happen. I know I would have gone out of state if my parents weren't FSU alumni and I had been raised a die hard Seminole. However, not everyone is like that and we lose a lot of bright students and future leaders out of state.

Again no offense to any UNF graduates. I know many UNF graduates who are very sharp and are doing quite well, but UNF has no right whatsoever to complain about lack of funding when much better schools are in the same boat.

I don't think we disagree on the fundamental part of this problem. But the real matter is that this affects the integrity of the univeristy system as a whole. It's nice to think about UF and FSU in a vacuum, the "flagships" of the state, but UNF and the other regional schools (USF, UCF, FIU, FAU, UWF, and FGCU) were created for a purpose: there was a deficiency in our university system, which simply couldn't accomodate the volume of students the state produces. Unless they accepted literally hundreds of thousands of students, UF and FSU (and FAMU) can't provide for Florida's higher ed needs by themselves. If it weren't for the newer schools, Florida would lose a LOT more of its best and brightest, regardless of how awesome the flagships were.

The money Scott cut was, unless I'm mistaken, intended specifically for building and infrastructure. Young schools with growing infrastucture needs obviously require money to fund it (and larger schools require more proportionally, of course.) UF and FSU have other needs (and in the case of FSU right now, they have a lot of other needs), but this isn't one of them. In this economy, you'd also expect schools to get their house in order and put out realistic requests. UNF is a young school, and is also well run - it's about the only school in the system that managed its finances well enough to not have to cut programs and lay off employees. And it's not like they were seriously requesting an amount that would hurt the "better" school; it was by any measure modest - seriously, 1.5% of the total. Regardless, that got cut entirely, while certain other projects based in politically powerful senate districts were more protected.

That's the problem right there. An young, up and coming school faced a 100% decrease in its infrastructure request basically for doing what it's supposed to be doing. Decisions like this affect the entire university system, and therefore, the quality of life in the state.

Unless the state will allow UF, FSU, and USF to charge higher tuition, schools like UNF, UWF, FAU, and FGCU should be well behind the upper tier schools in funding. Schools like UF, FSU, USF, and UCF charge nearly the same price as the lesser state schools, yet provide a superior education and have much higher quality students. Therefore, those upper tier schools should receive more state money in order to give those quality students a better ROI. Simple as that.

You talk about Florida losing its best and brightest if it weren't for the smaller state schools...This will be hard to express without sounding like an elitist or condescending, but its reality so oh well...UNF, FGCU, UWF, etc aren't keeping many of Florida's students from going to Emory, Georgia Tech, UNC, Duke, Northeastern schools, etc. UF and to a lesser extent FSU do. I know quite a few people who went to UF over quasi-elite schools. Same with FSU. The state needs to invest significantly more to its upper tier schools in order to keep Florida's best students home and because those schools are massive economic development engines.

I like UNF. I have quite a few friends who went there, but there is absolutely no way any UNF supporter (or employee) should be upset about not getting state money when UF doesn't either. Not advocating for the state to neglect UNF, just that it needs to fund its upper tier schools much better than the regional ones.