Council Passes Mobility Plan Unanimously.

[thelakelander]

With regard to the Skyway extension into San Marco, just because it is not in the Mobility Plan, doesn't mean it can't happen.  It could happen faster than a Mobility Plan project if another source of funding comes along that is directed toward the San Marco Skyway expansion.  There are three potential TODs along an expansion to Atlantic Boulevard that could contribute to the cost.  There is nothing that would keep these potential developers from working out a deal with the city to move this project along faster.

In fact, JTA has the most to gain from a large TOD at Kings Avenue.

Great point.  There are tons of funding mechanisms out there and the mobility plan is only one of them.

[thelakelander]

Is the skyway in the mobility plan at all? What will the San Marco extension be replaced with?

The skyway was removed from the mobility plan completely (political hot potato).  The $21 million in the plan that was set aside for the skyway extension was shifted to the $42 million streetcar corridor going into Springfield.  Neither of these projects are in the initial CIE plan (only the Riverside Streetcar and S-Line Commuter Rail Corridor are), so I'm sure they'll be reevaluated in five years.

Do you think it will be put back in the plan?

I think it depends on the success of the initial projects.  However, yes it could possibly be put back on at some point in the future when the reevaluation process occurs.

[thelakelander]

One more detail to go with the Mobility Plan, from what I understand.  Section 655 of the ordinance code regarding concurrency needs to be modified to remove the existing concurrency system and implement the Mobility Plan.  As of now, we are still operating under the old system and will continue to do so until this happens.  What passed last night changed the Comprehensive Plan.  Ordinance code is next.

Lakelander, do you know when this is scheduled to occur?

Should happen around the end of Summer.

[iMarvin]

Is the skyway in the mobility plan at all? What will the San Marco extension be replaced with?

The skyway was removed from the mobility plan completely (political hot potato).  The $21 million in the plan that was set aside for the skyway extension was shifted to the $42 million streetcar corridor going into Springfield.  Neither of these projects are in the initial CIE plan (only the Riverside Streetcar and S-Line Commuter Rail Corridor are), so I'm sure they'll be reevaluated in five years.

Do you think it will be put back in the plan?

I think it depends on the success of the initial projects.  However, yes it could possibly be put back on at some point in the future when the reevaluation process occurs.

I really hope it is because I really think the skyway should be expanded.

[dougskiles]

I assume that the concurrency moratorium is basically dead?  I understand that it is sitting in the finance committee.  But with the sponsor having lost the election, who is going to push it through?  Why would anyone just elected and facing the difficult task of funding our city do something to take funds away?

[fieldafm]

The question will be how do we get it funded?  I believe that is where the TODs come into play.

Realistically, I think for the San Marco Skyway extension to be implemented.. it's going to have to be funded by the developers.  There are A LOT of creative ways you could accomplish this.

Should happen around the end of Summer.

With the new Council in place.  This is where the real action begins.  A lot of the new council members have said that they favor a moratorium on the mobility fee.  In the same token, most of those incoming council members don't have a good enough understanding of the plan.  There is tremendous opportunity to educate and enlighten.

[cline]

Is the skyway in the mobility plan at all? What will the San Marco extension be replaced with?

The skyway was removed from the mobility plan completely (political hot potato).  The $21 million in the plan that was set aside for the skyway extension was shifted to the $42 million streetcar corridor going into Springfield.  Neither of these projects are in the initial CIE plan (only the Riverside Streetcar and S-Line Commuter Rail Corridor are), so I'm sure they'll be reevaluated in five years.

Do you think it will be put back in the plan?

I think it depends on the success of the initial projects.  However, yes it could possibly be put back on at some point in the future when the reevaluation process occurs.

I really hope it is because I really think the skyway should be expanded.

Once we start impletmenting these various multimodal projects and connecting different areas we will see an increase in Skyway ridership and success.  It fails now because it was basically left on the vine alone to die.  Once it becomes part of a multimodal system it can begin to thrive.  Once that happens there will be more agreement to expand it.  

[Dashing Dan]

Ock and Lake are the technical experts on the subject and can answer in more detail.

But you could drop the skyway down to grade and eliminate the double track to save a good chunk of change.  

Because the skyway is remotely operated, you cannot drop it all the way down to grade.  

You would have to go above or below the skyway in order to cross it.

[dougskiles]

As long as we can avoid the monstrous elevated stations and go with a single track on grade, I believe the cost of the San Marco Skyway extension will be much less than $21 million.  Hopefully in the $10 million range.

The beauty is also that it can be extended TOD to TOD to TOD.  First to the other side of the Kings Avenue garage for a large TOD, then along the tracks down to grade at the end of Lasalle Street for another TOD and finally to Atlantic where it will meet the commuter rail station and provide service for the St Joe/Regency East San Marco project.

[cline]

A lot of the new council members have said that they favor a moratorium on the mobility fee.

Which new members have said this?  

[fieldafm]

The extension would end at the railroad crossing at Atlantic. It would not pass over any tracks at grade.

[thelakelander]

Ock and Lake are the technical experts on the subject and can answer in more detail.

But you could drop the skyway down to grade and eliminate the double track to save a good chunk of change. 

Because the skyway is remotely operated, you cannot drop it all the way down to grade. 

You would have to go above or below the skyway in order to cross it.

If it were expanded to Atlantic Blvd in San Marco, you could drop it down to grade after it crossed the FEC tracks, near the tennis courts.  This would work there because you can't cross the FEC tracks at grade between Hendricks and Atlantic.

[dougskiles]

If it were expanded to Atlantic Blvd in San Marco, you could drop it down to grade after it crossed the FEC tracks, near the tennis courts.  This would work there because you can't cross the FEC tracks at grade between Hendricks and Atlantic.

And it would be in restricted access right-of-way adjacent to the FEC tracks.  Some at JTA tell me it can't be done, but I've learned not to believe everything they say.

[Ocklawaha]

The Skyway into an actual retail-residential area would absolutely double the ridership numbers of the entire system. The Stadium Area extension along Bay Street is already drawn up and sitting in boxes over at JTA, though when they were requested JTA seems to have forgotten where they put them... uh huh? A stadium area extension will likewise double (or more)  the annual ridership, but only the line from Central Station to JSO/Maxwell House would have any chance of much of a daily contribution to the system. The Stadium line would do in a single weekend what the other lines take weeks to do, but then the eastern end of it might be unused on a daily basis.

Lastly the routing, sending the streetcar down Bay does two huge negative things to our Light Rail Hopes in Jacksonville.

1. It pretty much slams the door on ANY Skyway expansion to the Stadiums EVER by using the Skyway's right-of-way.

2. It would miss the potential junction with the old F&J Railroad at the Union Street Warehouse, that old rail line gives us our best LIGHT RAIL opportunity running from the Arena north to 21St Street then northwest to Gateway Mall. The ridership potential and usefulness of such a line couldn't be overstated...and we already OWN it!

OCKLAWAHA

[Dashing Dan]

Trust me - you cannot build the skyway to run at grade.  

There's nobody on the train who could watch for obstructions.