"Replacement" Downtown?

[Ajax]

I wonder how many commercial real estate professionals really think this? 

Some commercial real estate professionals have said the synergy of the Southside’s office parks and retail developments makes it a “replacement” Downtown.

The rest of the article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2011/04/08/cisco-consolidates-in-deerwood-south.html?ed=2011-04-08&s=article_du#

[Jimmy]

There are certainly some who have considered the Belfort area to be the "new" downtown of Jacksonville.  I strongly disagree, but maybe this is how real estate professionals are marketing the area?

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/print-edition/2011/03/11/southsides-synergy-competes-with.html

[danem]

The city is big enough that it could use some urban "hubs" in different areas. Perhaps not a replacement downtown, exactly. Nothing urban about Southside office parks and SJTC, though.

[Captain Zissou]

It's not a replacement downtown.  The word downtown implies foot traffic, activity, culture, and a certain ambience that is irreplaceable.  The southside could double in size and downtown could remain stagnant, but the southside wouldn't be downtown unless it totally changed its development structure.  Cruise ship office buildings and surface lots do not make something a downtown.

If the brokers want to say that the southside is 'replacing downtown as the center of employment in Jax', fine.  Their lack of knowledge on anything planning related is maddening.  It also doesn't do them any good to try and force people to the southside.

The southside development phenomenon is all about convenience and affordability.  As it builds out and convenience starts to diminish and prices increase, there will no longer be ANY reason to go there.  Downtown has prestige and other intangibles that you can't put a price on.  As downtown develops and prices go up, it only causes more development to move in.  Tell me, if your salary is a percentage based on the price of space you sell, which one makes more sense??  Downtown is a positive feedback loop that leads to a larger more successful environment.  The southside is a negative feedback loop that ends in tears.  

For proof, look at the BOA building in regency and tell me that it won't happen.

[duvaldude08]

I agree. Our city is big enough to have different hubs that has a downtown feel, but theres no replacement for a downtown. If our downtown turned around, it would knock the southside off its feet.

[Captain Zissou]

The development of the area near the St. Johns-Duval county line on Interstate 95 is reminiscent of the Butler area years ago, Hanson said. The County Road 210 corridor saw a spike in new housing activity last year.

His company is poised to take advantage of that potential with the Flagler Center, a 1 million-square-foot office and industrial park along I-95, behind Baptist Medical Center South.

“It’s a young, growing community center â€" it’s a similar story earlier in its life cycle,” Hanson said. “The point is, it takes all of those elements coming together to create that vibrancy and energy that generate success.”

Read more: Southside's synergy competes with Downtown for business | Jacksonville Business Journal

SJTC and Southside's clock is ticking.  If Bartram Park area does a town center developmnet and can land new national chains not found at SJTC, it'll be game on.  If they land a Macy's or Neiman Marcus, it'll be game over.

[JeffreyS]

I wonder how many commercial real estate professionals really think this?  

Some commercial real estate professionals have said the synergy of the Southside’s office parks and retail developments makes it a “replacement” Downtown.

The rest of the article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2011/04/08/cisco-consolidates-in-deerwood-south.html?ed=2011-04-08&s=article_du#

This has been going on since the 80s, Ajax.  And most of them privately and publicly think this same thing.

Of course, the absence of cultural offerings, government complexes, Higher Education and any real organic industry would make this area anything but a replacement downtown, but this is why it is dangerous to let real estate people call the shots for a municipality.

I love our real downtown but as to the things listed as missing I believe they are there. UNF, FCCJ, Alhambra, SJTC, Tinsel town, dense housing and multiple office parks. You can't call it urban because it is car centric.  But some sort of HUB center with real "downtown" characteristics it is.

[Lunican]

The problem is that "synergy" in an area that adheres to an auto oriented development pattern just results in traffic.

[RiversideLoki]

This actually happened yesterday: I was talking to a client yesterday and talking about Riverside. "Oh really? Where's that? I've only lived here a few years!" She honestly had no idea where it was and had never heard of it because all she ever goes to is the Town Center. She couldn't even tell me where downtown is.

[fsujax]

I want to puke when I hear someone say this. The southside will NEVER be Downtown! it has no vibe, history, charm, character, nothing! sure it has traffic and massive parking lots, big deal.

[danem]

This actually happened yesterday: I was talking to a client yesterday and talking about Riverside. "Oh really? Where's that? I've only lived here a few years!" She honestly had no idea where it was and had never heard of it because all she ever goes to is the Town Center. She couldn't even tell me where downtown is.

Everyone goes to Town Center. It's big, easy to find, and full of everything. That's why we're getting this problem:

The problem is that "synergy" in an area that adheres to an auto oriented development pattern just results in traffic.

And very irritating and dangerous traffic at that!

[Captain Zissou]

^ Loki are you serious??  There are so many things wrong with that.  If our downtown doesn't have the prominence to cause people to visit it, or at least know where it is, within their first few months of living in town, we have a problem.

[danem]

^ Loki are you serious??  There are so many things wrong with that.  If our downtown doesn't have the prominence to cause people to visit it, or at least know where it is, within their first few months of living in town, we have a problem.

Some people don't explore outside of the immediate area where they live and work. Some think that a drive of over 4 miles is equitable to Columbus' fourth voyage to the new world.

[RiversideLoki]

I'm absolutely serious. You'd die if you knew the company.. but I'll never tell. I thought she was trolling.

[KenFSU]

Some people don't explore outside of the immediate area where they live and work.

A situation that is certainly compounded when you live in a city that is approximately six billion square miles.