New sprawl in Jacksonville 3.31.11

[Timkin]

So a couple of months of employment is worth decades of ugly sprawl, increased resource usage, and further depression of real estate values in that area?

It keeps deadbeats off the 99 weeks of unemployment, yeah, sure, why not? Worst that can happen is that the City condemns the site, and KB has to employ more people to tear down the structures.

If we had more quality jobs, this would be a mute point.

So um... M-train .. are you saying that a person who is unemployed , regardless of the circumstances , is a deadbeat?

[buckethead]

The only 'inevitable' thing about growth based 'employment' is that it is un-sustainable,along with many the many costs externalized to the public.So by embracing-demanding continued "growth" based job 'creation' we are in fact creating a wellfare worker class.

Tell that to the 11% unemployed in Jacksonville, again, be prepared to run.

Find me more than 70% of a legal workforce on those jobs, and we can talk about job recovery.

If you were to look, you'd find illegal immigrants, making $80 - $120 per day for 10 -12 hours. Cash. Money laundered at Check Cashing joints by El Jefe.

Jobs recovery? Please.

[finehoe]

If we had more quality jobs, this would be a mute point.

We agree on that point.

[I-10east]

Slow news day. Why are people surprised at this? Love it, okay face it, yall HATE it, but don't be surprised or outraged by it. Hardly the 'death nail' to the urban community that people wanna portray. Expect more subdivisions in the future for North FL....and no I'm not being 'complacent' by not raising my blood pressure over a freaking subdivision in the burbs!  

[Ocklawaha]

More power to them. If someone wants a nice yard (for a gardening hobby perhaps) and a new home (doesn't want to buy another's problems) and still be close to town and job with an affordable price... your headed to a TRACT HOME.  Yeah, I know Springfield, Riverside, etc... have a vacant lot here and there, but unless you are a person of means, getting a home designed and built as a custom job can be expensive. Back to KB? The way I see it, Commuter Rail isn't going to work without density around our stations, and if Sunbeam isn't a railroad station waiting to happen, then I'm not sure what is...

OCKLAWAHA
Historical Note: Sunbeam WAS a station on the Florida East Coast and was home to the notorious Sunbeam Road Prison (scene of torture and murder), highlighted in the 1967 movie "Cool Hand Luke".

[mtraininjax]

So um... M-train .. are you saying that a person who is unemployed , regardless of the circumstances , is a deadbeat?

What I would say is that I do not see any way that someone can go 99 weeks without finding some sort of job to help pay for their expenses. Florida is palatable at 26 weeks, half a year, but 73 more? I mean that is staggering. You could change professions multiple times in that span of time.

[mtraininjax]

Find me more than 70% of a legal workforce on those jobs, and we can talk about job recovery.

If you were to look, you'd find illegal immigrants, making $80 - $120 per day for 10 -12 hours. Cash. Money laundered at Check Cashing joints by El Jefe.

Yeah, I forgot, none of that money goes to pay for rent, goes to local banks, is used at local restaurants, yeah, simple velocity of money that goes back into the local economy. Yeah, silly me, money from jobs has to come from the right jobs before we can really appreciate the workers.

[dougskiles]

Regardless of your thoughts, next time by, let the people working jobs on the site know you think they're product is a waste. I am sure they will tell in their feelings as well. Just be prepared to run.

No reason why these same people can't swing their hammers on redevelopment projects closer to the core that provide jobs and promote a more sustainable city.  The problem is not the workers, it is the system that promotes subsidized suburban development.  Same with the people buying the homes.  If we can give them a better alternative - affordable housing, closer to the employment center and close to good schools then nobody will want to buy this cookie-cutter crap.

[aubureck]

If this is the area I'm thinking of, in 2006-2007 it was proposed to be another cookie cutter condominium complex that was going to be constructed by DR Horton who had already built a couple of them on Sunbeam Road.  I lived in an apartment in this area at the time and wondered if they were ever going to start the work.  In hindsight Im glad they didnt and if I was forced to choose between more condos with 3xs the density and 60 single-family homes, Id choose the single-family.

[buckethead]

Find me more than 70% of a legal workforce on those jobs, and we can talk about job recovery.

If you were to look, you'd find illegal immigrants, making $80 - $120 per day for 10 -12 hours. Cash. Money laundered at Check Cashing joints by El Jefe.

Yeah, I forgot, none of that money goes to pay for rent, goes to local banks, is used at local restaurants, yeah, simple velocity of money that goes back into the local economy. Yeah, silly me, money from jobs has to come from the right jobs before we can really appreciate the workers.

Money from the underground economy does filter back into the system, but it is diluted.

I wonder if you would venture to guess how much of that money goes directly south of the border? I'd speculate it is about 50%. My speculation would be based on personal experience, and the good ole eyeball test.

[Captain Zissou]

I've seen this place a couple times as I was driving by.  It looks like it will house cookie cutter homes on the tiniest of lots.  This is a waste of development.   

Regardless of your thoughts, next time by, let the people working jobs on the site know you think they're product is a waste. I am sure they will tell in their feelings as well. Just be prepared to run.

Seamless subject change mtrain.  I never commented on the people building the project, just the project.  Many people in America work jobs they aren't passionate about so that they can provide for themselves or loved ones.  I'm sure many of the builders would agree that this isn't the best development for our city. Many would not.

My main point was that we can do better with what we build in our city.  This development site is well within the inner beltway, be that a good or a bad thing.  While it's not contributing to the resource draining sprawl like some new developments off of 103rd, land within the inner beltway should have better planned and denser development on it. 

I thought my points were valid, even if they weren't eloquently presented.  Rather than focus on my main argument, you posted a knee jerk reaction to something I didn't even say.  Please keep that sort of drivel on the TU forums and only contribute valid points to metrojax. 

PS-  The word you were looking for was 'their'.  You said 'people working jobs on the site know you think they are product is a waste '

[BridgeTroll]

Find me more than 70% of a legal workforce on those jobs, and we can talk about job recovery.

If you were to look, you'd find illegal immigrants, making $80 - $120 per day for 10 -12 hours. Cash. Money laundered at Check Cashing joints by El Jefe.

Yeah, I forgot, none of that money goes to pay for rent, goes to local banks, is used at local restaurants, yeah, simple velocity of money that goes back into the local economy. Yeah, silly me, money from jobs has to come from the right jobs before we can really appreciate the workers.

Money from the underground economy does filter back into the system, but it is diluted.

I wonder if you would venture to guess how much of that money goes directly south of the border? I'd speculate it is about 50%. My speculation would be based on personal experience, and the good ole eyeball test.

Sounds like a good reason to require employers to use E-Verify.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD

[Jason]

Slow news day. Why are people surprised at this? Love it, okay face it, yall HATE it, but don't be surprised or outraged by it. Hardly the 'death nail' to the urban community that people wanna portray. Expect more subdivisions in the future for North FL....and no I'm not being 'complacent' by not raising my blood pressure over a freaking subdivision in the burbs!   

I have to agree with you.  Although this is another cookie cutter development there should be no ill feelings for it happening.  If there is anyone to be angry with its the city council and the land use overlay that allowed this thing to move forward to begin with.  The developer is simply making money on a product that people are buying because they were not forced to develop a different way or in a different location.

IMO, it is a small ray of sunshine and possibly an indicator that things may be turning the corner.  I'm cool with a bit more suburban growth in the short term as long as the politicos are hard at work on a revised regional land use and development plan coupled with some transit.  Keep the men working for now until we're able to pursuade the market to give them something better to build.

[finehoe]

Sounds like a good reason to require employers to use E-Verify.

And fine the hell out of them when they do not.

[duvaldude08]

These developers are idots. There is a housing crsis going on for heavens sake! Florida residents can not even fill the houses that currently exsist.