New sprawl in Jacksonville 3.31.11

[Timkin]

So um... M-train .. are you saying that a person who is unemployed , regardless of the circumstances , is a deadbeat?

What I would say is that I do not see any way that someone can go 99 weeks without finding some sort of job to help pay for their expenses. Florida is palatable at 26 weeks, half a year, but 73 more? I mean that is staggering. You could change professions multiple times in that span of time.

Really?

What is it about math that is eluding you?  There are millions more people than there are jobs.

Well M.... I hope you never become unemployed, struggle for months, possibly years, to find another job, and have to eat your words ....

[buckethead]

Sounds like a good reason to require employers to use E-Verify.

And fine the hell out of them when they do not.

The employer is often a gringo pimping a license (if in St Johns County) to a Latino, most often with papers (citizenship, green card, visa) but sometimes he is an illegal immigrant, who then hires the illegals. They write checks to phantom companies and cash those checks for about 3.5% at check cashing outfits who turn a blind eye.

There is no penalty that reaches them, unless the license compliance catches them on the job... but they have pimped paper in that regard. If workers comp comes out, their employer has reported each man on the job for $50 to a staff leasing company, hired by the licensed individual, but nowhere near covers the 60+ hours of work they do in a week. In Duval and Clay counties, the license isn't even an issue. Workers comp is, but they can flout the system by simply having each guy reported for the smallest amount of his actual pay for WC purposes.

The only way to stop it is a call to INS/ICE. That very often goes ignored. It puts citizens at a distinct disadvantage unless we are willing to do similar types of illegal activities, except WTSHTF, we can't run back to the mother country.

IRS? You're kidding, right?  Back in the boom days, many illegals (workers, not bosses) actually paid taxes, without the ability to get a refund, so I suppose at some point that might be a wash, but rest assured that new home construction is currently not fully contributing.

[Jaxson]

I do not think that it is a productive use of resources for a developer to add more homes to what is already considered an overbuilt glut that suffers from low demand.  I do not see the good in continuing to further depress the price of housing and to needlessly clear land for the sake of putting up homes that may stay vacant for a while.  Furthermore, the ends do not justify the means.  Housing construction is not meant to be a 'make work' project.  I do not think that the developer intends to be a benevolent private version of the New Deal - offering jobs to the down and out through building subdivisions.  From a policy viewpoint, there have to be better avenues to get folks out of the unemployment lines and back to work on more than just stop gap measures...

[futurejax]

I see KBH is still making smart decisions. Guess they want to alienate any remaining suckers I mean shareholders

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=KBH

[mtraininjax]

My main point was that we can do better with what we build in our city.  This development site is well within the inner beltway, be that a good or a bad thing.  While it's not contributing to the resource draining sprawl like some new developments off of 103rd, land within the inner beltway should have better planned and denser development on it.

Zis, who really cares if we can do better? I mean, really, I don't see you or Stephen out there on Sunbeam protesting the development, are you really that passionate about one subdivision? Why would this qualify for 10 minutes of debate over say the entire Nocatee complex? Sunbeam road will always and forever be compromised by the landfill, and untill you can do something with the landfill, it will always be a cut through road between US1 and FL 13. So really, why even bother?

Fact of the matter is that the "work" is putting people to work, contributing to the local economy. No matter what you may think about unemployed deadbeats who suck unemployment for 99 weeks and an 11% unemployment rate in Jacksonville, I am all for any and all jobs that contribute to the bottom line in Jacksonville. Any and all jobs, because they provide opportunities for people for a better life.

[mtraininjax]

Well M.... I hope you never become unemployed, struggle for months, possibly years, to find another job, and have to eat your words ....

Timken, my old self preservation friend, I would never file for unemployment to suck off the tit of the American people, I was not brought up to DEPEND on others for my livlihood. Everything I am and have become, whether you agree or not, is from my OWN doing. So when I go to meet my maker, I can leave the world without regret or having to depend on someone else for what I have created.

Sadly there are others who believe Government was created to support them. I vehemently disagree.

I am a survivor and people who survive find ways to succeed. Stephen is even a misguided survivor from closing his restaurant to becoming a passionate activist who always seems to find a way to make me think, just a bit more from post to post. He has become the Quid to my Quo. 

[mtraininjax]

There are millions more people than there are jobs.

There will ALWAYS be millions of people without jobs. You can never get to 0% unemployment, because of the people who do not want to work, but who would rather live off the government. In Jax, during the last boom, I think the lowest we got to was between 3 and 4 percent. Now at 11 percent, you can do the simple math Stephen, what is 11 percent of the Duval County Population, as compared to 3 or 4 percent?

[buckethead]

It isn't either/or.

Your great accomplishments are certainly not yours alone. Certainly the decisions you make have the greatest impact on you economic and social well being. To deny that there were countless others who laid the foundations for you endeavors is just plain silly. If nothing else, you might want to consider the roads you travel upon or the interwebs you post and research with. The examples can keep coming.

Society is the machine we work within, individuals with ideas, labor, and capital are the fuel.

[mtraininjax]

Your great accomplishments are certainly not yours alone. Certainly the decisions you make have the greatest impact on you economic and social well being. To deny that there were countless others who laid the foundations for you endeavors is just plain silly. If nothing else, you might want to consider the roads you travel upon or the interwebs you post and research with. The examples can keep coming.

Society is the machine we work within, individuals with ideas, labor, and capital are the fuel.

Sure others can help shape you, but ultimately men and women are products of their own decisions. Thanks for the roads that others built, thanks for the planes, and transit systems and the beaches and forests that God made. Without getting philosophies of others involved, I keep it simple. Success is predicated on the decision a person makes, and you alone are responsible for your own decisions, right or wrong. My point is that I am either successful or unsuccessful by the processes I put into motion. I do not rely on others to act for me. I alone act to drive my own success.

[Timkin]

Well M.... I hope you never become unemployed, struggle for months, possibly years, to find another job, and have to eat your words ....

Timken, my old self preservation friend, I would never file for unemployment to suck off the tit of the American people, I was not brought up to DEPEND on others for my livlihood. Everything I am and have become, whether you agree or not, is from my OWN doing. So when I go to meet my maker, I can leave the world without regret or having to depend on someone else for what I have created.

Sadly there are others who believe Government was created to support them. I vehemently disagree.

I am a survivor and people who survive find ways to succeed. Stephen is even a misguided survivor from closing his restaurant to becoming a passionate activist who always seems to find a way to make me think, just a bit more from post to post. He has become the Quid to my Quo.  

I don't recall anywhere in my posts, saying you would file for unemployment.  I don't know you personally, and sure would never presume to know what you did or did not do for yourself.  If you are , by your own judgement successful and earned everything all by your lonesome, Good for you !  I salute you. <salute

> For the record, never in my life , have I either.. but I disagree with you on this point.. Unemployment is paid for,in part by you working... I do not view that as sucking off of the Government/ Taxpayers.  Welfare may be another story.. I have never applied for either.  I too was brought up to work and be self-sufficient. I think most of us were.   But there are some out there , who , by no wrong-doing of their own, end up having to ask for unemployment.   The entire population of unemployed are not dead-beats. There are circumstances, such as one becoming physically disabled , for which they no longer can work.. Do you consider those people as suckers of the government and people?  

If you are self-successful , I genuinely commend you.  But never say something unforeseen cannot happen.   It can.. and sometimes it does .

[buckethead]

Your great accomplishments are certainly not yours alone. Certainly the decisions you make have the greatest impact on you economic and social well being. To deny that there were countless others who laid the foundations for you endeavors is just plain silly. If nothing else, you might want to consider the roads you travel upon or the interwebs you post and research with. The examples can keep coming.

Society is the machine we work within, individuals with ideas, labor, and capital are the fuel.

Sure others can help shape you, but ultimately men and women are products of their own decisions. Thanks for the roads that others built, thanks for the planes, and transit systems and the beaches and forests that God made. Without getting philosophies of others involved, I keep it simple. Success is predicated on the decision a person makes, and you alone are responsible for your own decisions, right or wrong. My point is that I am either successful or unsuccessful by the processes I put into motion. I do not rely on others to act for me. I alone act to drive my own success.

If you say so...

I'm glad you found the time to write all the books you learned from, before you learned from them.  There is so much given to us by society that continuing the list is pointless.

I can't stand when libs suggest I go to Somalia to enjoy the benefits of a free market, unencumbered by weighty government. I suppose it's because I know I would not have much opportunity to prosper there, but one such as yourself, who has no need for society, with merely the sound decision making skills you posses, would clearly be running the joint in 6 months.

Once you get things settled over there, do drop a line. I always wanted to see Africa.

[Timkin]

If only....

[Demosthenes]

Find me more than 70% of a legal workforce on those jobs, and we can talk about job recovery.

If you were to look, you'd find illegal immigrants, making $80 - $120 per day for 10 -12 hours. Cash. Money laundered at Check Cashing joints by El Jefe.

Yeah, I forgot, none of that money goes to pay for rent, goes to local banks, is used at local restaurants, yeah, simple velocity of money that goes back into the local economy. Yeah, silly me, money from jobs has to come from the right jobs before we can really appreciate the workers.

Actually, one of the big problems with illegal labor is a lot of the money goes back "home".

[Jason]

I do not think that it is a productive use of resources for a developer to add more homes to what is already considered an overbuilt glut that suffers from low demand.  I do not see the good in continuing to further depress the price of housing and to needlessly clear land for the sake of putting up homes that may stay vacant for a while.  Furthermore, the ends do not justify the means.  Housing construction is not meant to be a 'make work' project.  I do not think that the developer intends to be a benevolent private version of the New Deal - offering jobs to the down and out through building subdivisions.  From a policy viewpoint, there have to be better avenues to get folks out of the unemployment lines and back to work on more than just stop gap measures...

It's certainly not a productive use of resources.  But developers are like most buisnesses in that they are around to make money.  If they are selling tract homes within the guidlines of the current building codes and zoning overlays then so be it.  Things won't change until our local government (with the public's help) makes them change.  Force them to provide smart infill development through regulations, building restrictions, and/or incentives versus waiting for their hearts to convince them to do so.

[north miami]

The only 'inevitable' thing about growth based 'employment' is that it is un-sustainable,along with many the many costs externalized to the public.So by embracing-demanding continued "growth" based job 'creation' we are in fact creating a wellfare worker class.

Tell that to the 11% unemployed in Jacksonville, again, be prepared to run.

No question.So this thread quickly veers to the ultimate thread ....population,environment,land/resource base,exponential growth,diminishing margin,Tragedy of the Commons.and Jacksonville Ethos.
In my experience,the ultimate thread soon soars above most attention spans,so i will appropriately sign of on this one from here on out.
Just go back to my earlier post (this date) re the presentation deemed 'too controversial' for the City of Jacksonville sponsored Earth Day celebration.

Classic-per usual,soared above while the posts continued for daze.....er,days.