Republicans, Abortion, Women's Rights, and the challenges facing them.

[uptowngirl]

Faye, Let me help you with some of your misconceptions about me and apparently the US.

First of all it wasn't all that long ago I was in university and yes they gave out (and still do) free and/or low cost birth control. NO they do not (and did not) give out free IUD's. There are multiple types of birth control at varying expenses (pills, patch, caps, diaphragm, IUD, condoms), many which are pretty cheap and/or FREE.  A diaphragm can be had for $60/yr which is more than affordable for a single person making minimum wage. Most children if in school and 23 yrs or younger can still be on their parent's insurance, or if qualified under government sponsored insurance, and if no insurance at all can get various types of birthcontrol including condoms to pills for free or low cost, most universities offer Birth Control pills for around $14-$15/mo.(much cheaper than an abortion!) Do I think we should allow a wider variety of options for free or low cost? ABSOLUTELY! But stating I want an IUD or nothing is ridiculous. Free Condoms offer not only protection from pregnancy, but also disease Faye. Perhaps these boyfriends ( I am assuming boyfriends based on your fear of an unwanted pregnancy occurring) should pony some money up or provide the condoms since these are "committed relationships"?

You are now arguing about what should be offerred for free, but not about not having any free options.

You are basically stating we (tax payers) in the US suck because we should pay for your children to have free semi-safe sex.

You are also incorrect in that I am some rabid pro-lifer. I never said abortion should be outlawed (even though I would not choose this option for myself or my family). I did say late term abortion should be outlawed, and I do not think that makes me rabid, it makes me human. I have never once stated a 13 yr old should be forced to give birth, and actually Faye in case you did not know, the fact that a 13yr old had sex to get pregnant in the first place is the actual child abuse.

Who the hell is watching your hypothetical 13 yr old child? I know, I know there is also the rape and incest cases, all of these (under 15, rape, incest) make up less than 10% of total abortions in the US. So basically your imaginary 13yr old is just more drama created in an attempt to support your extreme views.

Abstinence is a real choice, I get really sick of people saying it is crap. Like someone who chooses abstinence is some kind of freak. Part of the issue with the world today is no self control or accountability. This is not a religious decision, it is a life style decision and guess what Faye? It costs ZERO dollars and will ensure no unwanted pregnancies.

Your daughters and mine have the same options (and more!) that were available to me, they and you just need to select your options based on what you can or cannot afford. There are multiple choices out there, with many very affordable even on minimum wage.

I am so sorry that the US is not living up to your expectations of a free ride. But aren't you lucky to live in a country where you have the right to shout out how much you hate it?

Somehow I do not believe free IUDs and sex for all was what was meant by "pursuit of happiness".

[Shwaz]

Playful banter?

What do you mean?

Whats playful about telling people to stay silent?

This can be achieved in a number of ways. Like yesterday I told the future Mrs. Shwaz that I had accomplished the task of washing & drying the mountain of laundry I had accumulated and put off over the last week or 2... the very same task she has been after me to get done. Right after I told her she said... verbatim... and I quote "STFU".    

[FayeforCure]

Whoa whoa whoa Your college age, gainfully employed daughters need free contraceptives... and not just the over the counter variety... instead you're demanding surgically implanted contraceptives of their choosing?!??!?!

Schwaz, just goes to show how little you know: an IUD is inserted by a doctor similar to the way a woman inserts a tampon...........nothing surgical about it.

It is the "cheapest" birthcontrol method around, because it'll be good for 10 years plus as it was in my own case.

[Shwaz]

Whoa whoa whoa Your college age, gainfully employed daughters need free contraceptives... and not just the over the counter variety... instead you're demanding surgically implanted contraceptives of their choosing?!??!?!

Schwaz, just goes to show how little you know: an IUD is inserted by a doctor similar to the way a woman inserts a tampon...........nothing surgical about it.

It is the "cheapest" birthcontrol method around, because it'll be good for 10 years plus as it was in my own case.

Ok so... your daughter(s) need 10 years worth of birth control subsidized by taxpayers because their in college now?

[uptowngirl]

Whoa whoa whoa Your college age, gainfully employed daughters need free contraceptives... and not just the over the counter variety... instead you're demanding surgically implanted contraceptives of their choosing?!??!?!

Schwaz, just goes to show how little you know: an IUD is inserted by a doctor similar to the way a woman inserts a tampon...........nothing surgical about it.

It is the "cheapest" birthcontrol method around, because it'll be good for 10 years plus as it was in my own case.

It must be because you posted it! Actually Faye it is not the cheapest around, many studies have been done based on cost and effectiveness and the IUD does not win.



The Winner: The diaphragm. With an annual cost of just $60 and an efficacy rate of 85 percent, this method gives users the most cost-effective method of preventing pregnancy. While the method fell in popularity after the introduction of the Pill, various forms of it have been used for centuries.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/alpha-consumer/2010/08/27/the-real-cost-of-birth-control-

[FayeforCure]

You are now arguing about what should be offerred for free, but not about not having any free options.

I have never once stated a 13 yr old should be forced to give birth, and actually Faye in case you did not know, the fact that a 13yr old had sex to get pregnant in the first place is the actual child abuse.

Who the hell is watching your hypothetical 13 yr old child? I know, I know there is also the rape and incest cases, all of these (under 15, rape, incest) make up less than 10% of total abortions in the US. So basically your imaginary 13yr old is just more drama created in an attempt to support your extreme views.

Your daughters and mine have the same options (and more!) that were available to me, they and you just need to select your options based on what you can or cannot afford. There are multiple choices out there, with many very affordable even on minimum wage.

Nobody wants that free ride that you are talking about, my daughters just want the same FREE access to birth control that YOU enjoyed.........at the nurse's office in YOUR high school and at Planned Parenthood.

It's million times cheaper to provide free access to birth control than have to treat complications from botched back alley abortions on the government Medicaid program.

Oh btw, if you are a single or married parent who is gainfully employed I doubt that you have eyes on your 13 year old 24/7 unless you have a gps on her and/or cameras installed throughout your house. She could be making out with another 13 year old boy and you wouldn't know it. So do not judge parents of that hypothetical 13 year old.

And YOU would compound the tragedy of  the 13 year old's behaviour by forcing her to continue with the unwanted pregnancy and traumatic childbirth.................thus inflicting child abuse on her.

[Shwaz]

Whoa whoa whoa Your college age, gainfully employed daughters need free contraceptives... and not just the over the counter variety... instead you're demanding surgically implanted contraceptives of their choosing?!??!?!

Schwaz, just goes to show how little you know: an IUD is inserted by a doctor similar to the way a woman inserts a tampon...........nothing surgical about it.

It is the "cheapest" birthcontrol method around, because it'll be good for 10 years plus as it was in my own case.

Ok so... your daughter(s) need 10 years worth of birth control subsidized by taxpayers because their in college now?

Do you think that they stopped being fertile once they made it to college?

Is this more of that majical thinking that Pro Choice people love to point out about the Pro Life crowd?  If you are really trying to stop abortion, isnt birth control a good way to do that?

Or are you really just trying to keep women from having sex on an even ground with men, not having to worry about getting pregnant?

Looks I'm 2 for 2 on zooming opinions over that sea of ginger.

Where did I say I was Pro-Life? Where did I say I was against all birth control?

[uptowngirl]

Somehow... we have spun from lack of access to birth control to lack of the options I think you should provide for my family.

The issue here is there IS  birth control available that works, but Faye thinks we ( tax payers) should be buying everyone a MBZ not an escort because, well just because.

And of course since Faye thinks we should purchase these MBZs for her daughter, we have a right to be concerned no?

[Shwaz]

Whoa whoa whoa Your college age, gainfully employed daughters need free contraceptives... and not just the over the counter variety... instead you're demanding surgically implanted contraceptives of their choosing?!??!?!

Schwaz, just goes to show how little you know: an IUD is inserted by a doctor similar to the way a woman inserts a tampon...........nothing surgical about it.

It is the "cheapest" birthcontrol method around, because it'll be good for 10 years plus as it was in my own case.

Ok so... your daughter(s) need 10 years worth of birth control subsidized by taxpayers because their in college now?

Do you think that they stopped being fertile once they made it to college?

Is this more of that majical thinking that Pro Choice people love to point out about the Pro Life crowd?  If you are really trying to stop abortion, isnt birth control a good way to do that?

Or are you really just trying to keep women from having sex on an even ground with men, not having to worry about getting pregnant?

Looks I'm 2 for 2 on zooming opinions over that sea of ginger.

Where did I say I was Pro-Life? Where did I say I was against all birth control?

Why are you so vitally interested in the wombs of Faye's daughter or how long they might need an IUD then?

Is that your way of asking me to keep silent? 

[Dog Walker]

From the libertarian viewpoint a woman has the absolute right to control what goes on with her body; put drugs in it, sell it for money, donate a kidney, abort a fetus, color her hair, sleep with other women.

To make a fetus into a "person" dehumanizes a woman and makes her into a breeding animal with fewer rights of control of her own body than the growing thing inside her.

I REMEMBER the era before Roe v Wade and it was UGLY!  The same people who now oppose abortion then opposed contraception.  They aren't anti-abortion or anti-contraception.  They are anti-sex.

I REMEMBER reading about the back-alley abortions that killed and sterilized women.  I remember the daughters of middle class and wealth families quietly sending their daughters to "certain" doctors to have D&C's for their "heavy periods."  I remember families quietly sending their daughters off to other states and other countries for a "vacation" in the middle of the school year.

The daughters of poor families had no such options.

It was ugly and it was shameful.  We are such hypocrites about sex in this country.

Start comprehensive sex education at age 10 and keep it going.  Make it boring.  Mothers and fathers and teachers and drug stores should start providing their children with contraception at any age at their child's request.

A good friend of mine started telling his daughter about how powerful a feeling sexual attraction was how natural it was when she started puberty.  He told her that if she ever decided that she was going to have sex with someone she was attracted too, she was to come to him about it and he would not make any judgement or comment, but would get her contraception.  He also told her about the three problems with sex; disease, pregnancy and reputation; repeatedly!

At age sixteen, she came to him and reminded him of his promise.  Without comment he took her to a gynecologist, and stayed in the waiting room.  He never commented or asked about her activity.  She never had any problems other than the typical ones of growing up.

Now in her middle thirties, she has two beautiful twin girls who are just entering puberty themselves.  She and her husband are treating them exactly the same way.

Now that is sound, practical, reality based parenting.

Your children ARE going to experiment with sex before they are married.  You did...and I did.  A good parent will make sure they aren't hurt by that growing and learning.

[FayeforCure]

Somehow... we have spun from lack of access to birth control to lack of the options I think you should provide for my family.

The issue here is there IS  birth control available that works, but Faye thinks we ( tax payers) should be buying everyone a MBZ not an escort because, well just because.

And of course since Faye thinks we should purchase these MBZs for her daughter, we have a right to be concerned no?

Lets keep things straight: you claimed you had free access to birth control through your high school nurse's office and through Planned Parenthood.

I then told you that my daughters would like the same, because today there is no such FREE access to birth control.

PLAIN and SIMPLE.

[uptowngirl]

Somehow... we have spun from lack of access to birth control to lack of the options I think you should provide for my family.

The issue here is there IS  birth control available that works, but Faye thinks we ( tax payers) should be buying everyone a MBZ not an escort because, well just because.

Where do you see that Uptown Girl?

By the way, are you prolife or prochoice?

I am prochoice, with the caveat around late term abortions- to me that is not prochoice it is poor choice.

I appreciate DogWalkers comments. My parents did the same for me and I did (and will do for the baby) the same for my children. I will never, ever let my children believe abortion is cheaper than birth control, nor will I ever deny them birth control, I can skip a few meals out! I will try to instill some self worth and pride in my children so they choose thoughtfully before diving in. This is why I trust them to make the right decision for them, and in the event all of the above fails, I trust them and myself to make the right decisions without judgement.

[uptowngirl]

Somehow... we have spun from lack of access to birth control to lack of the options I think you should provide for my family.

The issue here is there IS  birth control available that works, but Faye thinks we ( tax payers) should be buying everyone a MBZ not an escort because, well just because.

And of course since Faye thinks we should purchase these MBZs for her daughter, we have a right to be concerned no?

Lets keep things straight: you claimed you had free access to birth control through your high school nurse's office and through Planned Parenthood.

I then told you that my daughters would like the same, because today there is no such FREE access to birth control.

PLAIN and SIMPLE.

and I responded with facts around how you are wrong. You stated you want IUDs for your girls and they cost $550 a piece, that is hefty sum for five girls....I then pointed out free options and cheap options for you.

Here are some more:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4875071_cheap-birth-control-pills.html

There is even an app for free condoms, planned parenthood gives them away, and I have no idea where your daughters are located, but Planned Parenthood in NY even gives away free birth control pills.

[Shwaz]

Somehow... we have spun from lack of access to birth control to lack of the options I think you should provide for my family.

The issue here is there IS  birth control available that works, but Faye thinks we ( tax payers) should be buying everyone a MBZ not an escort because, well just because.

And of course since Faye thinks we should purchase these MBZs for her daughter, we have a right to be concerned no?

Lets keep things straight: you claimed you had free access to birth control through your high school nurse's office and through Planned Parenthood.

I then told you that my daughters would like the same, because today there is no such FREE access to birth control.

PLAIN and SIMPLE.

And it must be of the highest quality... and it must last at least 10 years... and it must be provided 'free' even if they are adults with jobs.

[FayeforCure]

Whoa whoa whoa Your college age, gainfully employed daughters need free contraceptives... and not just the over the counter variety... instead you're demanding surgically implanted contraceptives of their choosing?!??!?!

Schwaz, just goes to show how little you know: an IUD is inserted by a doctor similar to the way a woman inserts a tampon...........nothing surgical about it.

It is the "cheapest" birthcontrol method around, because it'll be good for 10 years plus as it was in my own case.

Ok so... your daughter(s) need 10 years worth of birth control subsidized by taxpayers because their in college now?

Do you think that they stopped being fertile once they made it to college?

Is this more of that majical thinking that Pro Choice people love to point out about the Pro Life crowd?  If you are really trying to stop abortion, isnt birth control a good way to do that?

Or are you really just trying to keep women from having sex on an even ground with men, not having to worry about getting pregnant?

Thanks Stephen, as a career-minded young woman, I certainly did not want to take any chances. I knew I would be one of those women who would wait to have children until my late twenties or early thirties, even though I married the man I started dating at age 19.

It's funny how Schwaz first doesn't know what IUDs are (even thinking they are srgically inserted), and then questions why my daughters might want a similar 10+ years of "no worry" protection.