Ten Reasons to Save Fire Station Five

[RockStar]

I know I know...I was just stoking the flames.    I actually thought it would make a killer restaurant space, but going through the cost of relocating it just doesn't make sense. A better firehouse that could be a restaurant is the old one on Adams next to the Burrito Gallery...but I think someone made a home out of it?? not sure.

[vicupstate]

If you are getting the building for free, which would actually SAVE Fidelity the expense of demolition, and the move could happen for $300K, then it is actually a bargain.  You couldn't build that much SF for that price, even with renovation expenses.   

[mtraininjax]

It would make a great restaurant, bar, office, anything.

Preservation Tap and Chop house was a great restaurant and IT was in Avondale and no one came. Good luck renovating a fire station with nothing after 5 PM around it to support itself. Knock it down if it cannot survive as an 8-5 business.

[buckethead]

If you are getting the building for free, which would actually SAVE Fidelity the expense of demolition, and the move could happen for $300K, then it is actually a bargain.  You couldn't build that much SF for that price, even with renovation expenses.   

I don't believe that building could be moved and rehabilitated for the cost of a similar (yet updated) new structure plus the cost of land. Perhaps it would prove to be a similar cost? How would you spend your money?

Palm Valley might be a good fit. It could be barged there, (or any othe waterfront location) but I don't know if that move would be any cheaper, or if a person ight see the structure as a desirable residence or business.

[vicupstate]

There is no way to know without a significant study of the details, but if the building is only moving a few blocks and the building is free, then I think it could be done.  The QUALITY of new materials would be far inferior to what was used in the building, in all likelyhood. 

If the city had to chip in $100k to get it done, so be it.  It would be worth it. Some things have VALUE beyond dollars and cents.

[vicupstate]

It would make a great restaurant, bar, office, anything.

Preservation Tap and Chop house was a great restaurant and IT was in Avondale and no one came. Good luck renovating a fire station with nothing after 5 PM around it to support itself. Knock it down if it cannot survive as an 8-5 business.

Restaurants have a very high failure rate anyway. there are no guarantees in life, regardless. When the I-10 /I-95. opens there will be no better location than Riverside Ave.  A fire station offers an uniqueness and amibience than couldn't be built from scratch. 

A very popular restaurant in Columbia SC spent a huge sum to renovate a train station for its location.  The PR and recognition could not be purchased for ANY sum of money.  Everyone in town, and even throughout the state was aware of it. They have been in business for decades doing brisk business since day one.

Your unimaginative "tear it down' attitude is why Jax has lost so much of its uniqueness already.  You must be a native. 

[Captain Zissou]

It would make a great restaurant, bar, office, anything.

Preservation Tap and Chop house was a great restaurant and IT was in Avondale and no one came. Good luck renovating a fire station with nothing after 5 PM around it to support itself. Knock it down if it cannot survive as an 8-5 business.

Restaurants have a very high failure rate anyway. there are no guarantees in life, regardless. When the I-10 /I-95. opens there will be no better location than Riverside Ave.  A fire station offers an uniqueness and amibience than couldn't be built from scratch.  

A very popular restaurant in Columbia SC spent a huge sum to renovate a train station for its location.  The PR and recognition could not be purchased for ANY sum of money.  Everyone in town, and even throughout the state was aware of it. They have been in business for decades doing brisk business since day one.

Your unimaginative "tear it down' attitude is why Jax has lost so much of its uniqueness already.  You must be a native.  

+4. I think this building is worth saving and is more feasible than many are aware of.

 Preservation Chop house had a terrible parking situation and I never heard a completely positive review from anyone.  They all said for the money you paid, it was far inferior to competitors.

[Shwaz]

All roads lead back to Firehouse subs... has to be the best idea.

[thirdeye]

Something also to think about when relocating the station is all of the site work that will need to be done.

An empty lot must have sewer, electric and storm water/drainage addressed.

That's not cheap.

[fieldafm]

I appreciate the passion folks have.  Truthfully, the fire station is a lost cause.  There are things in Jacksonville we can effect change on, however this isnt one of them.  The time for this building has past.  You can say I'm a skeptic and I'll wear that badge with honor.  There are things we can focus on in the urban core that have a chance of succeeding(like the Landing parking lot).

However, if someone really wants to start a Firehouse franchise(the franchise fees and startup costs are VERY competitive and the average Firehouse grosses more and has higher margins than a Subway franchise) and are willing to pay the moving expenses, secure land, AND the cost of the building.... give Don Fox or Stephen Joost a call 886-2179.  They have a very aggressive franchise push this year. I think you'll quickly see that ol F.S. Five doesnt quite add up.

[fieldafm]

Stephen
If you have someone willing to take on the risk, then go for it!  I truly mean that.  The previous efforts over the last year and a half were not anywhere close to being viable.

[vicupstate]

I appreciate the passion folks have.  Truthfully, the fire station is a lost cause.  There are things in Jacksonville we can effect change on, however this isnt one of them.  The time for this building has past.  You can say I'm a skeptic and I'll wear that badge with honor.  There are things we can focus on in the urban core that have a chance of succeeding(like the Landing parking lot).

However, if someone really wants to start a Firehouse franchise(the franchise fees and startup costs are VERY competitive and the average Firehouse grosses more and has higher margins than a Subway franchise) and are willing to pay the moving expenses, secure land, AND the cost of the building.... give Don Fox or Stephen Joost a call 886-2179.  They have a very aggressive franchise push this year. I think you'll quickly see that ol F.S. Five doesnt quite add up.

Skeptic is one thing, visionless is another.  You have a Phd degree in that.

To a point, I have to agree with you. This is hopeless, since this building is located in Jacksonville.

If it were located in a REAL city, one with soul and values and vision, it would not be.  If someone proposed demolition of this building in Charleston, they would be arrested for smoking crack.  The very IDEA would not be taken seriously.  I guess renovation money must grow on the Live Oak trees there.  Too bad that Jax doesn't have those.   

There is more vacant land in Brooklyn than will be filled in 30 years. It is really impossible to find a 1/4 acre the city owns that can't be done without??

As for the water/sewer, etc. that should already be in place, and it is isn't, would be just as costly elsewhere.   

BTW, the idea is to make it the HQ of Firehouse subs, not merely a franchise location.  the building is much bigger than that single use (a franchise only) would require. 

It could be an icon of Firehouse Subs, but it could also be an office building or a mixed use building. 

If COJ would have spent $150k of the 2 +million that was WASTED on the Seafood restaurant in LaVilla, (THAT NEVER OPENED), that would already be underway !!!!

Stephen, instead of calling the Fire Chief, you should call Firehouse subs. Of course, the person who should really call them, is John Peyton.

Oh, and by the way, the Landing parking lot is in it's 23rd year of indecision, so I don't know which cause is more 'lost'. They both look pretty bleak in my book.   

[fieldafm]

I appreciate the passion folks have.  Truthfully, the fire station is a lost cause.  There are things in Jacksonville we can effect change on, however this isnt one of them.  The time for this building has past.  You can say I'm a skeptic and I'll wear that badge with honor.  There are things we can focus on in the urban core that have a chance of succeeding(like the Landing parking lot).

However, if someone really wants to start a Firehouse franchise(the franchise fees and startup costs are VERY competitive and the average Firehouse grosses more and has higher margins than a Subway franchise) and are willing to pay the moving expenses, secure land, AND the cost of the building.... give Don Fox or Stephen Joost a call 886-2179.  They have a very aggressive franchise push this year. I think you'll quickly see that ol F.S. Five doesnt quite add up.

Skeptic is one thing, visionless is another.  You have a Phd degree in that.

To a point, I have to agree with you. This is hopeless, since this building is located in Jacksonville.

If it were located in a REAL city, one with soul and values and vision, it would not be.  If someone proposed demolition of this building in Charleston, they would be arrested for smoking crack.  The very IDEA would not be taken seriously.  I guess renovation money must grow on the Live Oak trees there.  Too bad that Jax doesn't have those.    

There is more vacant land in Brooklyn than will be filled in 30 years. It is really impossible to find a 1/4 acre the city owns that can't be done without??

As for the water/sewer, etc. that should already be in place, and it is isn't, would be just as costly elsewhere.    

BTW, the idea is to make it the HQ of Firehouse subs, not merely a franchise location.  the building is much bigger than that single use (a franchise only) would require.

It could be an icon of Firehouse Subs, but it could also be an office building or a mixed use building.

If COJ would have spent $150k of the 2 +million that was WASTED on the Seafood restaurant in LaVilla, (THAT NEVER OPENED), that would already be underway !!!!

Stephen, instead of calling the Fire Chief, you should call Firehouse subs. Of course, the person who should really call them, is John Peyton.

Oh, and by the way, the Landing parking lot is in it's 23rd year of indecision, so I don't know which cause is more 'lost'. They both look pretty bleak in my book.  

I think we agree on some very fundamental issues regarding this city.  Personal attacks aside(the PHD comment is ludracris, untrue, and uncalled for), I said what I said b/c the actual numbers on the fire station as it stands now(in Fidelity's house, as bound by their contract with COJ) means this is just not the most effective use of our time.  I am 1000% behind the rejuvination of our urban core... however the station's time has past.  There were much better solutions before, and even those werent very good.

The difference b/w this and the Landing's parking lot is a contract and a corresponding judge's ruling on said contract.  I think now is the time to act on the Landing issue.  Money is being spent on Laura Street and I truly feel public sentiment is going to swing in the Landing's favor(it has started already according to conversations I had over the weekend).  The city is bound to uphold their agreement with the Landing.  The city arleady upheld their agreement with Fidelity.  

I agree that the LaVilla restaurant was mismanaged, short-sighted, and represented a microcosm of the failure the city has subjected itself to.  The last proposal to save F.S. Five would have been EERILY similar to the LaVilla fiasco.  I optimistically hope the city learned from that previous mistake.

I very much appreciate your passion.  I have very fond memories of the fire station as a kid(I vividly remember getting to ring the siren on one of the station's truck when I was very young preceding a trip to the green derby restaurant, and my father used to get his blood pressure checked at the station).  I seriously hate to see what happened to it.  But beating a dead horse doesnt make it any less dead.  My point is, there are bigger/healthier horses that need saving.  I think now is the time to start saving those horses.  

As I responded to Stephen, if there is a willing investor... I would volunteer my time to move the damn building brick by brick If I had to.  I posted the number to call.  By all means then please lead the effort!

[vicupstate]

There WAS a willing investor.  And I hardly think $150k compares to $2mm.  His Fire station proposal was to house an existing, ongoing business, not a start-up like the LaVila Restaurant.  Again, hardly comparable.

You have not presented ONE reason why it can't be saved.   All that has to happen is the city gives up 1/4 acre that it is not doing anything with, and provide $150k.  Plus Fidelity has to agree to save itself some money. 

If somehting THAT simple is simply dismissed out of hand, without even a serious attempt, then there is NO HOPE for ANY historic preservation in Jax.   

Of course, it isn't EASY, but if enough effort was put into making it happen, instead of thinking of reasons why it can't happen, it would have already happened. 


"Hard things are what great cities do"
-- Joseph P. Riley, Jr.  Mayor of Charleston, 1975-     

[Shwaz]

There WAS a willing investor.  And I hardly think $150k compares to $2mm.  His Fire station proposal was to house an existing, ongoing business, not a start-up like the LaVila Restaurant.  Again, hardly comparable.

You have not presented ONE reason why it can't be saved.   All that has to happen is the city gives up 1/4 acre that it is not doing anything with, and provide $150k.  Plus Fidelity has to agree to save itself some money. 

If somehting THAT simple is simply dismissed out of hand, without even a serious attempt, then there is NO HOPE for ANY historic preservation in Jax.   

Of course, it isn't EASY, but if enough effort was put into making it happen, instead of thinking of reasons why it can't happen, it would have already happened. 


"Hard things are what great cities do"
-- Joseph P. Riley, Jr.  Mayor of Charleston, 1975-     

Your investor scenario is short sighted.

It was never published who was to pay for relocation. The investor claimed that it could be moved for $300K and that he would contribute a small portion towards land near the new 95 exchange... land that was projected to skyrocket in price.