Rick Scott's Argument Pitful and Untrue, Legislature to Sue over High Speed Rail

[JeffreyS]

Ock what is it about sending the project to the rail professionals you do not like.  Is the rail industry incompetent, incapable or what.  If they do not put forth viable bids or bids at all that is the logical point to put this to bed not weeks before we see if they can put up a lemonade stand.

[Garden guy]

Meh.  Its more critical that we get Jacksonville right, both for the national system and our own local interests.

Helping out a guy who is fundamentally against rail doesnt do that.

And I hate to tell you this, but no one is really looking at the long term use or application of the Central Florida HSR. They can't.  It hasn't happened yet, nor will it happen within the next four years. They are looking at whether or not Rick Scott gets away with screwing over rail, however.  If he is successful, other governors hoping to run for president will screw the interests of this country and their states and delay rail another 15 years.

At the end of the day we have a greater responsibility.  We are finally at that crucial juncture where the feds are ready to roll money over from highways into rail again after 80 years.

We do not need to be empowering anyone who can block that doorway.
Steve you say that we need to not suppor anyone who can block that doorway...that pretty much means all republicans....does that mean you'll be voting for a democrat for mayor and council?

[thelakelander]

Stephen...I agree with your entire post...with the small exception of the following

After all, Jacksonville isnt a part of the Florida High Speed Rail project.  There are no plans, for it to be joined to the network, not even in the medium term.

to be accurate, the Florida Rail Commission (at its meeting in Jax. last month) passed a resolution adding Orlando-Jacksonville to the official route map as Phase 3

Stephen, to be even more accurate, they are going to claim the FEC RY project as HIGH SPEED RAIL to Jacksonville (90 mph - if it ever gets done) and the Commission has no more intent to spend more money to send a line to Jacksonville then that - EVER! More smoke and mirrors and BULL SHIT... If you consider a regular Amtrak train running fast south of TITUSVILLE, you've seen Jacksonville High Speed Rail as far as Florida is concerned, but if you think in terms of bullet trains to Orlando and Miami... It ain't going to happen. If TU believes it, it's only wishful thinking, or he's completely deluded.

OCKLAWAHA

To be honest, I would be happy with this (90mph corridor service on the FEC).  However, if the Tampa/Orlando line falters, you can kiss this one goodbye as well.  They both happen to be HSR projects and this one would require state money.

[tufsu1]

Florida's main industry? But they're claiming it serves Orlando and Tampa travelers, and that it will remove a million cars from I-4 for that purpose... Unless they are quoting numbers which they suddenly pull from 32 Million non existent passengers arriving at OIA. This thing, as-is, is an industry killer.

So what if Central Florida's HSR isnt really what its cracked up to be.

America and the World are watching, THAT'S why it's so damn critical to get this right.

Ock....this is why you let the process continue....each of the private consortiums will do their own revenue & ridership studies....and with names like Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Virgin, and Siemens, I'm willing to bet they'll do very thorough studies...if they feel the risk is too great, they won't bid.

[tufsu1]

Stephen, to be even more accurate, they are going to claim the FEC RY project as HIGH SPEED RAIL to Jacksonville (90 mph - if it ever gets done) and the Commission has no more intent to spend more money to send a line to Jacksonville then that - EVER!

really...did you attend the meeting last month Ock?

btw...the new Federal proposal for high speed rail sets up three different levels based on speed....90mph isn't called high speed rail...I think they are calling it enhanced corridor service

[tufsu1]

btw, if anyone wants to watch the oral arguments before the FL Supreme Court, they'll be shown live at 3pm today

http://www.wfsu.org/gavel2gavel/index.php

[urbaknight]

Stephen...I agree with your entire post...with the small exception of the following

After all, Jacksonville isnt a part of the Florida High Speed Rail project.  There are no plans, for it to be joined to the network, not even in the medium term.

to be accurate, the Florida Rail Commission (at its meeting in Jax. last month) passed a resolution adding Orlando-Jacksonville to the official route map as Phase 3

Not to sound impatient but, why can't orlando to Jacksonville be phase 2, or even extend it as part of phase 1.

[thelakelander]

1. Because Jax never participated during the last +20 years of planning this thing.

2. Because metro Miami is five times the size of Jax and ridership between Orlando and Miami would be significantly higher.

[urbaknight]

1. Because Jax never participated during the last +20 years of planning this thing.

2. Because metro Miami is five times the size of Jax and ridership between Orlando and Miami would be significantly higher.

That makes sense. We just need to be more aggressive next time there's a discussion on the matter.

[Dashing Dan]

If we ever get high speed rail into Jacksonville, it will most likely be to/from Atlanta.

[FayeforCure]

btw, if anyone wants to watch the oral arguments before the FL Supreme Court, they'll be shown live at 3pm today

http://www.wfsu.org/gavel2gavel/index.php

Thanks for the tip........I definitely will be watching!!

[FayeforCure]

This is a really good piece!!

A law-making governor?
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  Published: March 3, 2011

A lawsuit against Gov. Rick Scott sends a question to the state Supreme Court that is more important than the high-speed train behind the controversy. Does Florida's governor have the power to single-handedly change state law?

Conservative leaders at the state and national level, who are usually defenders of the rule of law and the limits of constitutional authority, have been oddly silent on the issue.

The lawsuit by Democrat Arthenia Joyner of Tampa and Republican Thad Altman of Melbourne, both state senators, makes a point that has gotten lost in the heated political argument over whether the economic benefits of the project are worth its price.

Money for high-speed rail nationally was appropriated by Congress. The prior governor and Legislature asked for and accepted federal support. In trying to disqualify Florida for the federal grant, Scott is ignoring state law.

It has been easy, and not entirely accurate, to frame the issue as Scott refusing Obama's $2.4 billion gift for the Tampa-Lakeland-Orlando line. As the lawsuit notes, the money is from Congress, not Obama. The state Legislature in 2009 passed a law creating the Florida Rail Enterprise, assigning it the task of overseeing high-speed rail, and providing it future operating money from the state.

Scott's actions effectively undo that law.

His main defense is that he is representing taxpayers and that the courts should stay out of what is a political decision. Who does he think the Legislature and Congress represent? Those are the bodies with the power to make laws, to tax and to spend, not the governor or president.

"The High Speed Rail Act," the lawsuit states, "requires the Florida Rail Enterprise to finance and construct the high speed rail system for the state. There is no discretion."

The court is not being asked to force the governor to back a project he is determined to stop. But it can decide whether he has the authority to kill it or duck the question altogether.

Lawmakers who agree with Scott just because they disagree with high-speed rail should think about how powerful a governor they would be comfortable with. Would they allow a governor to stop any project he thinks wastes money?

Some of these leaders seem more worried about upsetting anti-rail tea-party activists than upholding state law.

As a practical matter, it will be tough to build a major transportation project that the governor doesn't want built. Under Scott's lead, state lawmakers might well change state law to forbid high-speed rail. But so far they haven't.

The cities of Tampa, Lakeland, Orlando and Miami are creating their own agency to accept the federal money and do what Scott refuses to do. The cities have written assurance from the federal Department of Transportation that neither the cities nor the state will have a financial obligation to repay the grant if the rail line fails.

The mayors of Tampa, Lakeland and Orlando and business leaders met with Scott Monday to explain the arrangement lets state taxpayers off the hook. Scott simply ignores the facts.

Despite two statewide ballot issues on rail, state voters haven't had a direct say on the federally funded rail plan. In 2004, voters repealed a state constitutional amendment passed four years earlier that required state taxpayers to build high-speed trains whatever the cost.

We joined many other rail supporters in believing that the project did not belong in the constitution. It was not a direct referendum on rail.

A recent Harris poll found that more than two-thirds of Florida residents support state and federal funding of high-speed rail. Clearly, Scott and his core supporters do not.

Scott's opinion on rail does not negate his oath to uphold state law. It is easy to see how the court could find Scott overstepped his authority, but also hard to see how the court could force him to make this project work.

The best legal and political solution is for the cities to be allowed to build it without Scott's help

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/mar/03/MEOPINO1-a-law-making-governor/

[FayeforCure]

btw, if anyone wants to watch the oral arguments before the FL Supreme Court, they'll be shown live at 3pm today

http://www.wfsu.org/gavel2gavel/index.php

Thanks for the tip........I definitely will be watching!!

My reception just stopped........anyone else have that problem too?

[thelakelander]

How was it going before your reception stopped?

[FayeforCure]

How was it going before your reception stopped?

Didn't look positive for us.

Mostly because the state legislature hadn't issued a continuing resolution for appropriation, meaning that in future years it would have to appropriate the remainder of the funds over and above the $130 million already appropriated.

Apparently the state advances the monies and then gets reimbursed by the federal government.

Or they could have appropriated the entire $2.4 billion and Scott couldn't have done anything to stop it.

I still think though that the certification that was sent to the federal government should have been legally binding for the entire $2.4 billion.

I didn't really hear them talking about that, but like I said my reception got cut out and I haven't been able to watch it any further.

Governor Scott also was compared to Gov. Sanford who refused to accept the ARRA monies too, but lost in a court case against him.