1325 Laura -- demolition hearing at HPC

[Timkin]

Ionia,  I could not concur with you more... I have never seen a City who's past and present management has such little regard for Historic Structures , PERIOD.. this is evidenced by a lost count of beautiful examples , that were in far better shape, than the house that is the topic of this thread. Structurally this home is no where close to as deteriorated as the home my Grandparents once owned, in Ortega.  And that home luckily was saved because I happened by total accident to locate a buyer for it , who happened to be in favor of saving it.  They went to tremendous expense and great lengths to save that home...  It is a shame , truly a crying shame that the remaining historic properties are not treated with more regard than they are.  Unfortunately I have come to the conclusion, that try as we may, we will not save all of them.  I wish economics, potential buyers, and the mindset to save these places , were different than they are.  The SOS organization is wonderful..I certainly wish there were more alike-minded folks like them in the various historic districts, and IMO not another Historic home or Building of any kind in any reasonably savable shape (and this home definitely is savable) should be allowed to be destroyed.

[buckethead]

I still contend that restoring an historic house such as this is still less costley than building a new house.

As Sheclown stated, a few grand puts the structure in place to be finished. To build new (and cheap) look to prices of $15-$20 per sq ft to bring the structure to a similar point. (foundation, framing, siding, roofing)

The other benefit is the "sweat equity" an individual can build. The owner is apparently a doctor, likely with little time of inclination to put in the elbow grease.

It appears the good doctor paid $225,000.00 for the property in 2003 according to the duval county property appraiser. (the sticking point) http://apps.coj.net/pao_propertySearch/Basic/Detail.aspx?RE=0708770000

The losses have occurred. Perhaps he sees no point in throwing good money after bad.

What is the value of the lot post demolition?  12K-25K?

[Timkin]

What would you estimate the property worth in a restored status ? Just curious. 

Based on the purchase figure, I see why (to an extent) he would not put anymore money into it..  That said, putting the money into stabilizing the structure and marketing it, would be better than putting the same money  into it to demolish it, and still end up with a lot with a value of $12-25k. 

[Timkin]

I would think restoring any existing structure that is in reasonably savable shape would be less expensive than going from a new build (for a building that is an EXACT duplicate of the existing)  Am I correct, or is there not an impact fee once a building is destroyed, to put another building in its place?

[buckethead]

I'm seeing similarly sized homes in move in condition for under $150K. The current market does not allow the investor in a similar position to be made whole, let alone make a profit.

It is a perfect time to buy an old home in need of love and care. That property, as is, might fetch 25K, if there are no strings attached such as back taxes. I haven't researched empty lot prices in the Devil's Triangle, so I might be off the mark. Over on the east side of main, lots are priced to move. (I want a house, not a lot)

The area is secure. The neighbors are largely friendly and nurturing of their properties. The speculators have made the neighborhood look worse of than it actually is due to abandonment and neglect. Those who bought in and moved in seem to be in for the long haul.

[iloveionia]

Buckethead.  What are you and the Mrs waiting for?  Just do it.  This is an absolute great time to buy in Springfield. 

As for 1325 Laura Street.  The Doctor purchased 5 "Madge" homes way back when for that $225,000 lump sum.  He gutted completely (though not necessary) the large yellow house on the corner and renovated it.  It's nice, though nothing original, and currently listed at over 1/2 a million.  No lie. 

Recent vacant lot sales have fetched as low as $8k.  This home does not sit on a large lot, and I do not believe there is a driveway.  Fair to say max $12 - $15k for a vacant lot this size.

Our problem is a structural engineer can come out and write a report (after inspection of course,) and say that the house is unstable.  That it is a "danger."  That it is "structurally unsound."  The owner wants this house torn down, this evident by his complete disregard for his responsibility for the homes he's purchased.  I've tried to contact him to no avail.  There is a neighbor who also wants the house torn down.  MCCD is only concerned for safety, not history.  HPC doesn't seem to have teeth, and certainly when it comes to safety and "eminent danger," the house it out of their hands.  HPC can persue "Demolition by Neglect" which guarantees a minimum $10k fine or possibly rebuilding the home.  But the lien attaches to the house, not the owner.  Quite simply there is no consequence for the owner, just the house, and in my opinion, the neighborhood. 

How can someone, anyone, buy in a Nationally Recognized Historic Neighborhood and champion demolition.  It is beyond my scope of understanding.

And as for the house falling down on someone or something or itself? Let us remember Chicken Little.  "The sky is falling, the sky is falling."

[Timkin]

And unfortunately the structural engineer prevails, unless of course someone comes to its rescue.  I am hopeful.  It would be obvious the owner is not ,for whatever reason, interested in saving it. It would seem to me, they would readily unload it to some prospect, to not have to pay to demolish it. 

[buckethead]

Buckethead.  What are you and the Mrs waiting for?  Just do it.  This is an absolute great time to buy in Springfield. 

As for 1325 Laura Street.  The Doctor purchased 5 "Madge" homes way back when for that $225,000 lump sum.  He gutted completely (though not necessary) the large yellow house on the corner and renovated it.  It's nice, though nothing original, and currently listed at over 1/2 a million.  No lie. 

Recent vacant lot sales have fetched as low as $8k.  This home does not sit on a large lot, and I do not believe there is a driveway.  Fair to say max $12 - $15k for a vacant lot this size.

Our problem is a structural engineer can come out and write a report (after inspection of course,) and say that the house is unstable.  That it is a "danger."  That it is "structurally unsound."  The owner wants this house torn down, this evident by his complete disregard for his responsibility for the homes he's purchased.  I've tried to contact him to no avail.  There is a neighbor who also wants the house torn down.  MCCD is only concerned for safety, not history.  HPC doesn't seem to have teeth, and certainly when it comes to safety and "eminent danger," the house it out of their hands.  HPC can persue "Demolition by Neglect" which guarantees a minimum $10k fine or possibly rebuilding the home.  But the lien attaches to the house, not the owner.  Quite simply there is no consequence for the owner, just the house, and in my opinion, the neighborhood. 

How can someone, anyone, buy in a Nationally Recognized Historic Neighborhood and champion demolition.  It is beyond my scope of understanding.

And as for the house falling down on someone or something or itself? Let us remember Chicken Little.  "The sky is falling, the sky is falling."

I saw the renovations on the yellow house. Looks okay, but way overpriced in today's market. I believe I saw it online for an asking price in the high sixes and again in the high threes. Either is out of my current range.

I don't want someone elses version of awesome. the kitchen is nice but not ideal. The fireplace looks inappropriate with the new tile/marble/travertine surround. The trim on the front door looks like home depot dropped it off. Not horrible, but not authentic.

If he's willing to part with the property for a fair market value, I would consider it. It does need all new windows and those are costly due to historic restrictions for window sizes.

I'm thinking lot value plus maybe two grand would induce a buyer.

It's got to be better from his perspective than 10K fines.

[Timkin]

It would also be better than him paying to tear it down. That cannot possibly be that cheap.

[iloveionia]

He doesn't care and the city won't intervene to save the house. This would be a great house to mothball, but the way I understand it the owner has to agree. Any rolling fines would stop, but it couldn't be mothballed forever (at least according to the current draft.)

[sheclown]

It could be mothballed for 5 years & after that the mothballing would continue if he showed some work being done.

[sheclown]

Using economic hardship to justify a demoltion, in this case particularly, is highly ironic given the fact that the owner is the one who caused the problems in the first place.  Especially when he removed the chimneys and left holes in the roof.  That being said, the structural issues have more to do with past termite damage than anything else.  And ALL houses in Springfield have termite damage to some extent. 

IMHO, you don't get to justify a request for demolition based upon the fact that renovation makes no economic sense WHEN YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CAUSED THE DETERIORATION IN THE FIRST FREAKIN PLACE. 

[sheclown]

The figure we have received (and this is an approximation) from the city is that over 400 homes have been demolished since Springfield was declared a Nationally Registered Historic District 25 years ago.  Our figures, based on vacant lots then, vacant lots now, and infill, put the figure at 500 +. 

Using the lower figure, it is a loss of approximately 1.5 a month, every month, for 25 years. 

Now, houses need to be examined as much for their contribution to the historic fabric that remains as their individual importance.  To say that a house has lost (in this case through the owner's mistreatment) most of its interior historic detail, is irrelevant.  We have lost the "luxury" of removing houses which have been stripped. 

The remaining homes are important not only in and of themselves, but at this point, because they connect with all of the other historic houses around them.  They are an important part of the ever shrinking whole.

These arguments don't work anymore:

1.) it is too expensive to restore -- we can mothball for a better time.

2.) it has lost too much of its historic elements -- it is an important part of Springfield's footprint.

[sheclown]

Green talk is cheap, COJ.  Want to be green?  Recycle a house.


(116 E. 6th Street as being demo'd 2010)


The greenest house is one not in a landfill.

[Debbie Thompson]

Is ths 1325 Laura today?  That was a fast demo.  :-(