Group wants Theme Park Downtown

[mtraininjax]

Can we please get serious???....I'd like to see a water park next to the river.

[Shwaz]

Dan I think your missing the point. London attracts millions upon millions of tourists per year making an attraction like this feasible. Jacksonville has neither the draw nor the scenery for a zipline / ferris wheel... no matter how big.

I agree with you that an aquarium is an attractive attraction.

[Captain Zissou]

Unless the city ponies up big time, I don't see any of the amusement park ideas being implemented.  With the land available, it is too small to be a regional draw, and Jax is too small to support anything locally.  However, they could go Micro amusement park (think merry go round in St Auggie) to compliment another recreational oriented use.  

If we did build a pier that was primarily dining, shopping, and active use park space, I think it could support a Merry Go Round and small ferris wheel.  Every ride individually priced at reasonable rate (think Santa Monica Pier).  Nothing huge with furries playing banjos and mascots running around.  Just a couple well made and well maintained rides to compliment a larger dining and shopping destination.  Something that would round out the appeal for all age groups.

For example, if the Town Center put in a Merry Go Round, I bet that thing would turn a profit.  If the people are already there, they'd love a feature like this.  They won't show up just for this.

My Plan:
First we build out the pier with an active use park, fishing amenities and retailers, water centered activities, and a restaurant or two at Bay Street.  Next we build East; adding shops and restaurants and nightlife.  Next we add more green space with the amusement rides just off the river.  Through all this you have foot paths and such.  Then we build residential, hotel and commercial.  At this point we're about halfway down the shipyards property. We take the rest, divide it up and sell it off and let the market decide.

If my plan went well, it would take 1-2 years for the pier portion, 2-3 for the retail/nightlife, 3 for the residential and hotel, then less than 4 for the rest.  Sure it's optimistic, but far less so than anything the city has dreamed up.

I have too many disagreements with the Civic Council's plan to itemize them here....

[Shwaz]

Can we fit a pier in downtown and still have an active waterway? Navy Pier in Chicago is great... but it's in a lake the size of an ocean.

I'm not convinced that a park of any sort is the best option. Metro-Park is on the other side of this site and it's just withering away as it is.

[Captain Zissou]

Can we fit a pier in downtown and still have an active waterway? Navy Pier in Chicago is great... but it's in a lake the size of an ocean.

I'm not convinced that a park of any sort is the best option. Metro-Park is on the other side of this site and it's just withering away as it is.

Metro Park is primarily a passive use park that is isolated from the rest of downtown.  Many cities have these for large festivals and concerts, but they are far away from downtown.  Many cities also have urban parks with active uses that are used on a daily basis by residents.  Metro Park is trying to do both things, without doing either one that well. 

The park space potential at the west end of the Shipyards is totally different.  It has the potential for active uses that tie into the river while being connected to downtown.  There would be no 'great lawn' at this park, but areas of activity scattered throughout and intermingled with retail.

[Wacca Pilatka]

One thing the city could do that's theme park-related is do a far better job of promoting the tours of the Sally Industry facility in LaVilla.

[Shwaz]

One thing the city could do that's theme park-related is do a far better job of promoting the tours of the Sally Industry facility in LaVilla.

That's true... I work right across the street, know a guy that works there and I've never been in for tour

[Shwaz]

Can we fit a pier in downtown and still have an active waterway? Navy Pier in Chicago is great... but it's in a lake the size of an ocean.

I'm not convinced that a park of any sort is the best option. Metro-Park is on the other side of this site and it's just withering away as it is.

Metro Park is primarily a passive use park that is isolated from the rest of downtown.  Many cities have these for large festivals and concerts, but they are far away from downtown.  Many cities also have urban parks with active uses that are used on a daily basis by residents.  Metro Park is trying to do both things, without doing either one that well. 

The park space potential at the west end of the Shipyards is totally different.  It has the potential for active uses that tie into the river while being connected to downtown.  There would be no 'great lawn' at this park, but areas of activity scattered throughout and intermingled with retail.

I see what you're saying but... maybe the focus should be building a park like you mentioned at the current met-park grounds. It's really not much further down... maybe 1/4 of mile.

[I-10east]

I find it interesting that people are mentioning the same rides that we already have.

The Merry-Go-Round at the Jax Zoo
The Waterpark at Adventure Landing
Not to mention a kiddie Wacky Worm coaster at Adventure Landing (Not a thriller by no means)

If it was me in charge of this project, I wouldn't put it at the Northbank because you're killing your expansion options with such limited land to play with (I know that no one wanna hear that). Although there seems to be some considerable unused land on the Southbank.

[PeeJayEss]

IMHO the city should just extend Catherine, Marsh, Palmetto and Lafayette Sts acroos Bay St to the riverwalk with utilities and sell the blocks whole or divided into lots.  Let the new property owners do whatever they want to with their property.

+1

If my understanding of history is correct, that is how downtowns came into existence and thrived.  Then we started killing them with urban renewal plans.

+1 +1

All these amusement park, aquarium, pie in the sky ideas require a tremendous amount of city government involvement. They'll all involve a great deal of parking, and will not have the return on investment that you want. People aren't going to move into downtown to be close to the aquarium or a roller coaster. And people going to them aren't going to be walking around town for food and other entertainment. They'll go to the aquarium or the amusements and eat the food that those venues provide inside. Any other places will be hundreds of yards across a parking lot. Unless you trust the city to come up with some magical plan that will incorporate these things and make it walkable and attractive to other business. I'm doubtful.

You make a city great by establishing policy that is favorable to living, working, and playing downtown. Throw in some incentives for starting small businesses and put enough police on the streets to enforce the law. Do these things then get out of the way. The people will come.

Also, artificially keeping property values high won't get anybody downtown. Sometimes to get prices high, you have to let them go low. Lower the price of entry making it economically attractive to live downtown, more people will come in, more business, more people...etc. Then prices will rise. New York is so expensive to live in because it was incredibly cheap several decades ago. Poor or thrifty artists and young professionals moved in, more people and businesses followed, etc, etc, etc. A downtown with Jacksonville's potential will improve if the market is simply allowed to behave naturally. All the interesting stuff downtown developed organically. Most of the lame stuff came by government "initiative."

[wsansewjs]

Building an aquarium here would be the most logical because of the symbolic representation of the St. Johns River while Jacksonville is the mouth of the St. Johns River, where all the things begin. For example, Monterey Bay Aquarium is the symbolic aquarium of the Pacific Coast including raising awareness and preserving the sea otter, humpback whales, and other endangered species.

In addition to the connection to the surrounding area, University of North Florida' Biology Department, Jacksonville University's Marine Science, University of Georgia's Marine Science, University of Florida's Biology, University of West Florida'a Marine Science, and many more can all work together to support the Jacksonville Aquarium.

I thought the Ford Factory Plant would be AN AMAZING place for the Jacksonville Aquarium.  It really adds to the whole Entertainment / Sport complex including the Shipyards.

I know it can take business away from The Alligator Farm unless the Alligator Farm can do a partnership while the Jacksonville Aquarium would display and provide the showplace of the Alligator Farm's alligators while the actual faculty would be nursing, maintaining, and taking care of the alligators.

WHO IS WITH ME for setting up a group for Bringing Jacksonville Aquarium Alive!?

-Josh

[I-10east]

People aren't going to move into downtown to be close to the aquarium or a roller coaster. And people going to them aren't going to be walking around town for food and other entertainment. They'll go to the aquarium or the amusements and eat the food that those venues provide inside. Any other places will be hundreds of yards across a parking lot.

Don't forget that this proposal also calls for "a pedestrian mall with shops & restaurants" along with the zipline and ferris wheel.

[PeeJayEss]

Don't forget that this proposal also calls for "a pedestrian mall with shops & restaurants" along with the zipline and ferris wheel.

The Landing with rides! I take back my prior statements. This project will definitely revitalize downtown!

[Captain Zissou]

You make a city great by establishing policy that is favorable to living, working, and playing downtown. Throw in some incentives for starting small businesses and put enough police on the streets to enforce the law. Do these things then get out of the way. The people will come.

This is a given.  I think many of our comments are geared towards this site in particular, not at DT as a whole.

killing your expansion options with such limited land to play with (I know that no one wanna hear that).

You're really not.  There's tons of room on this parcel alone.  DT is the size of Manhattan, at 1/2,000th the population density.  I spent a while looking at google maps of this area.  You have jail, giant parking lot, Maxwell house, open land, berkman disaster.  If you use the half built Berkman bldg for scale, you could easily fit 6 of those place green space and QOL amenities within the first part (before Hogans creek cuts through the property) alone.  

My reasoning for the amusement rides is purely QOL, not as a draw beyond people who would already be in the area.  Think of City Place in West Palm or what the Landing should be here.  Mixed use areas with a recreational vibe.  You add some riverfront amusement rides, Fantastic.  Nothing big, just something nice to have.  Is friendship fountain giving you a strong ROI? No, but we would never demolish it because it makes our city better.  Same here.  An equal sized combined area scattered throughout the Shipyards property for active use park and amusement activities.  All I want is a Merry go round, some interactive public art, and an interactive fountain.  Other cities have this in spades.  

[Captain Zissou]

only if you are with me on building a snow museum in alaska

Spot ON!  We don't need a big aquarium here! We live in an aquarium!! People just think if there isn't 6 inches of glass between them and the fish it doesn't count.