The Jacksonville Civic Council's Plans For Downtown

[outofhere]

What vision? A bunch of suburban developers and design-build companies propose....some more poured concrete structures and a parking garage. Give me a break. This is a plan that could be for a parcel of land out in the 'burbs.
I like the convention center idea but really how much parking does a CC need? This allows for something like 600 parking spots. Don't most people come to conventions from out of town by plane? Why the heck do we need this many spots? And leaving paved parking on the river?! It's like downtown Jax is living the lyrics to a Joni Mitchel song.

[thelakelander]

Lakelander - did you also feel that transit was a missing element?  Any thoughts on how we can inject this idea into the mix?

Yes, transit, bicycle and pedestrian network connectivity are huge missing elements. Especially with a plan that stretches out 1.6 miles.  I think its time to move meetings on urban issues from board rooms to actual urban environments.  The easiest way to inject connectivity is to take a site visit to a place where that form of connectivity exists.  For example, if we want to talk pedestrian connectivity and its role on enhancing urban vibrancy, San Marco Square, Five Points, Shops of Avondale and even the main strip of SJTC are great places consider.  Hendricks/San Jose (north of Baymeadows) is a decent example for bicycle connectivity between DT, an urban neighborhood and suburban development.  For transit, you really need to visit a place like Charlotte (a pro could probably do it with the skyway) but you can tie it in locally as something that's needed to connect pedestrian friendly spots, considering most aren't walking longer than a 1/4 to 1/2 mile.  We have to stop treating downtown and the urban core neighborhoods as separate items when they all are individual pieces that when mixed together, combine to become a salad (thanks Pastor Clinton Bush ).

[jcjohnpaint]

and why destroy a 12 story building if it could be used for additional rooms (if needed) for conventions?  All this seems to me is another version of a business park from the southside put downtown. 

[comncense]

I know this is just wishful thinking but I'd love to see Jacksonville do a convention site somewhat along the lines of L.A. Live.(http://lalive.com/) I was in LA for an Adobe conference in August and everything you could want was right in that area. Multiple restaurants (places that stayed open for breakfast, lunch and dinner), nightlife, a gathering area for outdoor concerts and the conference site and Staples center was right across the street. The businesses at LA Live even give discounts for downtown residents. Though I know the site we're thinking of probably doesn't have as much open space available, we do have some of those things already in places. It's a matter of making the right choice to put the pieces together. As far as the rest of the study, I agree that we shouldn't tear down that block to construct a parking garage. At this point we have more parking than there's a demand for even if all parking was free. I would love to see the Laura Street Trio project come to reality though.

[wsansewjs]

As I was reading the report, my jaw just dropped at the sheer amount of stupidity and ignorance of the people who proposed this motion.

More buildings?! There are over 40% of vacant spaces in the downtown alone! We got enough parking and workable spaces. We just need some bologona and cheese sandwiches to fill the warm and soothing of the souls for those who visit Jacksonville.

What happened to the great ideas by the students at SCAD's Architecture?

I personally have been to the MoMA in New York City. One of the exhibitions I remember so well from is  the Rising Current. There were proposals by different groups in solving NYC's rising sea level that will flood areas permanent. These people came up so many innovative solutions that works in EVERY way from transportation to ecosystem to human sustainable area

Here is the link to that exhibition: http://www.moma.org/visit/calendar/exhibitions/1031

Having an alternative, liberal, third party who can come in and see what our flaws and help by providing innovative solutions like the fantastic student at SCAD.

Current Jacksonville Politicians (the bad apples) just completely disgust me. Oh man, I need Ock's Band Aid right now.

-Josh

[Bativac]

Why is land downtown still so expensive? It would seem like supply and demand would dictate that prices would fall.

[Riverrat]

W.T.F.?! Why are we taking steps backwards???

Seriously. UGH.

Okay, I'm not an expert...but if the Hyatt has already expressed interest in building an exhibit hall on that land, why not let them do it? That would then leave the entire courthouse and parking lot to build a new convention center in the (hopefully near) future.

Secondly - haven't we learned already that tearing down existing structures to build parking is a horrible idea???

Third - Turn the existing Shipyards project in to low-mid rise office space? Shouldn't we fill the existing vacant office space downtown first? That said, we can't even fill in the vacant land of the already low-mid rise office park we call LaVilla...so why continue to ruin the landscape with suburban office buildings?!?!??! Just hold off and perhaps when everything turns around, something similar to the Shipyards can move forward there!

This city has NO VISION for the future.

[dougskiles]

This city has NO VISION for the future.

Or could it be too much vision.

[pwhitford]

Okay, here is what I wrote after my first reading of this report:

This report is a botched wire-hanger abortion; there is nothing redeeming about it at all, except if it can be used as an example of what not to do in the future.  It's all regurgitated bullshit.  It not only lacks vision and understanding, but it is regressive.  If this is all what is considered by the mainstream to be "Jacksonville's best and brightest" has to offer, then I swear, if I could get what I paid for my house, I'd be outta here ...  It is evident that a long time ago a small group of rapacious villains knowingly chose to maintain a stranglehold on all the power and wealth in this community at the price of its ultimate and obvious demise.  The alternative, opening it up by allowing it to grow and prosper beyond their death grip, and thereby surrendering some of their control and foregoing whatever profits they could squeeze out of its decaying corpse, was just as callously tossed aside.  In my opinion, they have chosen to smother the city itself.

But now, a little time has passed and the medication has kicked in, so I'm more reasonable.  Not any happier, but more reasonable.  Plus, I don't think bomb throwing is going to get me anywhere. And, of course, the report is not all bad.  It just demonstrates such a glaring lack of vision or understanding of certain core concepts.  Haven't they learned any of the lessons of the last 20-30 years?  Where is the plan to increase urban core DENSITY? What about increasing MASS TRANSIT and PEDESTRIAN traffic?  COMPLEMENTARY USES and SERVICES?  CONNECTIVITY?  I spend a lot of time every year doing business in New York City (where I'm from) and I can't tell you how many things New Yorker's take for granted that aren't even considered here.  I know it's not fair to compare the two, and that's not my purpose.  I only mention it to show that these elements can be combined to make a city flourish.  But this will never happen with leadership that won't even acknowledge they exist, let alone how important they are.  I had hoped for more.  I am really disheartened - not surprised, just disheartened.  I apologize if my original rant offended anyone.

[tayana42]

Combine a new convention center near the Hyatt with a mass-transit corridor along Bay Street and you have a winning combination.  Just don't demolish the historic structures.

[jcjohnpaint]

Is there any way to send this tread to the Civic Council or the mayoral candidates before any more destruction is done on this great city's downtown?  I am just afraid that it might be too late, but I guess your never know.  I mean this site is one of the most revolutionary sites to change the thinking of Jacksonville, but it is the people from the Civic Council who needs to read these comments more then us!
 

[Fallen Buckeye]

Why not integrate the parking with one of the buildings? Couldn't there be ground level retail and parking on the upper levels of a building? Seems unecessary to demolish another historic building.

[tufsu1]

Is there any way to send this tread to the Civic Council or the mayoral candidates before any more destruction is done on this great city's downtown?  I am just afraid that it might be too late, but I guess your never know.  I mean this site is one of the most revolutionary sites to change the thinking of Jacksonville, but it is the people from the Civic Council who needs to read these comments more then us!
 

I believe MJ has set up a meeting with Don Shea....add to this that many of us have been closely engaged with the Mayoral candidates.

I know this plan has flaws....but don't get too worked up...it is obvious from the write-up and the graphics that this is very preliminary.

[jcjohnpaint]

Well that is a relief!  Lets hope his council is up to revisions.  Personally I think it is shortsighted in almost every way, but once historic buildings are destroyed they are not coming  back. 

[Ocklawaha]

Wanna wager on which "CITY" will win the race to "FIRST TIER?"

Where do we find these people? This sounds like a textbook case of 1955 thinking. Let's raze the city for more parking, tear down historic building fabric so we can put up more bland tilt-up boxes who's designs hardly pass for architecture. Zayres? Woolco? K-Mart? Who else has the rubber stamp?

Where does this insanity end?

The way I read it:

The city is for automobiles, and we need to do everything in our power to make them comfortable on their visit to downtown.

One can never have too much pavement.

Pedestrians, bicycles and fixed route mass transit, have never crossed the mind of these people.

Let's build an amusement park, and let's make sure it has no theme, moreover, lets make sure it is too small to attract notice, and too bland to survive if it did.

Let's level more of the historic building fabric in downtown, nobody cares about history in this Bold New City of the South. Hell our ancestors must be embarrassed to admit to The Almighty that we are somehow their offspring.

How about a downtown pedestrian plaza that faces the center of the block, just think of the attractive service doors that will front on our streets.

The Shipyards should be a mixed use hotel-entertainment-retail space, something I happen to agree with, but then let's bypass the 600' pier, and completely fail to put any spark what-so-ever to make it unique attractor of patrons, but hey we could always open a "Super NAPA Parts Store."

Let's blast out another 70' feet of asphalt along the shore of the river, remember those cars need the views.

We should keep that riverfront parking, why would the City want to sell or lease land that many fortune 500 companies would jump on in a heartbeat with proper incentives.

Nobody cares about Metropolitan Park, Johnny already TOLD THE CHARETTE to make sure they propose to wipe the whole front half of the property clean so the city can have more stadium "flex space."  Last year my sister-in-law traveled half way around the world to see "flex space," in Mongolia.

Ignore Hogan's Creek, never mind the similarities to the San Antonio River or the Oklahoma City Canal with tropical enhancements, its polluted you understand.

Let's talk more about the river, and do less. As long as we dynamite a few dozen more buildings so we can line that view with tin Lizzy's and rubber tires, the colors are stunning.

Let's be a "First Tier City," so let's build a new convention center the same size as the one in ROGERS, ARKANSAS! I understand Uncle Jed has come into some money and might have a hankering to mozy down to Florida... I can see it now, "The International Opossum Innards Cook Off at The Jacksonville Convention Hall."

I'm an admitted OLD HIPPIE, but I'm telling you people, I have never had drugs this good... What the hell are these guys smoking?

GOD JACKSONVILLE! PULL YOU F###IN HEAD OUT!

So much for being in line for that first tier, y'all know I come from "Okie Stock" but my kin folk in Bugger Hollow Arkansas have more class.

OCKLAWAHA