City Salaries - Who Makes the most

[Charles Hunter]

Well said, stjr.

[uptowngirl]

I sooo totally disagree on the count of the CEO. I might agree on the other workers making six figures, but have no idea what roles those are, so cannot really pass judgement on them at this time.

I hire people all over the United States for the same position, same education, same experience level and I certainly do not pay them all the same. I can have an excellent, experienced Phd in the same role as a newly graduated BA and the BA is paid more because they live in SF and the Phd lives in Kansas.

A CEO at a company with absolutely no competetion is not making HUGE decisions and taking huge risks like a CEO at a private corporation. Anyone who thinks the CEO is the driving force in whether an aquisition is made, or has anything at all to do with day to day decisions obviously does not work within the realm of that level of management.

As tax payors and owners we have every right to question the pay, and also to question the position itself. JEA really needs a CFO, and a CTO but in this case, CEO seems like a job you give your golfing buddy. I mean what the hell does he do? Give his rubber stamp on what the real workers are telling himi and for anything big it seems City Council has to be involved anyway. Total waste of money.

[Timkin]

These salaries seem pretty steep.  Im willing to bet there are persons out there equally qualified for these positions who would do them for alot less.

I hope these overpaid individuals get a dose of reality one day. The sooner the better .

[riverside planner]

I agree that on the surface these numbers may seem high, but I also know the hours worked and demands placed on many of these folks.  These are high-stress, demanding positions and for the most part the salaries are appropriate.

[ChriswUfGator]

I agree that on the surface these numbers may seem high, but I also know the hours worked and demands placed on many of these folks.  These are high-stress, demanding positions and for the most part the salaries are appropriate.

No they're not. They're a local government 9-5 with full benefits and a pension. Gimme a break. The people at JEA who have the high stress jobs (the guys actually schlepping around to reconnect your power during storms etc.) make peanuts. Meanwhile, their call center supervisor makes $100k+, and they have 10 people all making about 6 figures assigned to advertise a utility monopoly, LMAO! It's a monopoly, why advertise? Where else are the customers going to go? Seriously, "high stress positions" LMFAO! Give me a break.

[riverside planner]

I can assure you that when I worked at the COJ Planning Department, 9-5 was a rarity.  Try 8-6, 8a-9p, or even 8a-11p.  Neighborhood meetings, CPACs, Council Committee meetings and City Council are all part of the job description for most folks in professional positions.  There were more than a few weeks that I spent 3 evenings a week at meetings on top of a regular 8 hour workday.  Yes, there are some overpaid people there, but I know for a fact that the vast majority of the management-level positions demand far more than 40 hours per week.  This is typical in other cities as well.  You also get the joy of having irate citizens yelling, emailing, calling and frankly harrassing you for something that is outside of your control.  Granted, "whipping boy/girl" is a given part of a public sector job, but when a citizen feels that calling a city employee at home, on a weekend is appropriate, it borders on harrassment.  And no, I never gave out my home number.  The whackjob looked it up.  Unless you've ever worked in one of these position, please, do not belittle it. 

I agree that on the surface these numbers may seem high, but I also know the hours worked and demands placed on many of these folks.  These are high-stress, demanding positions and for the most part the salaries are appropriate.

No they're not. They're a local government 9-5 with full benefits and a pension. Gimme a break. The people at JEA who have the high stress jobs (the guys actually schlepping around to reconnect your power during storms etc.) make peanuts. Meanwhile, their call center supervisor makes $100k+, and they have 10 people all making about 6 figures assigned to advertise a utility monopoly, LMAO! It's a monopoly, why advertise? Where else are the customers going to go? Seriously, "high stress positions" LMFAO! Give me a break.

[ChriswUfGator]

Yes, there are some overpaid people there

Thank you, then we're in agreement with each other.

You're making a straw-man, as you know, I never said "every single" JEA employee is overpaid.

About customers calling you at home, that's ridiculous, I would've been pissed too. But I'd hope that doesn't preclude you from deciding an issue on the merits, rather than simply going with whichever side you better personally identify with. There are many overpaid people in unnecessary positions at this utility, when you scan through the list. You've got frontline customer service making $40-$60k year, and their supervisors are making 6-figures. And the first thought I had was "wow, they really should be nicer on the phone then!" since with a few exceptions I've found JEA's customer service reps to be condescending and rude.

They have a whole advertising department full of 6-figure or near 6-figure salaries, for a monopoly that needs no advertising. They have 12 people assigned to running a six sigma training course, all making at or near 6-figure salaries. The collections department is nuts, the head makes like $200k and the rest are all $50k+. You don't find these positions at these salaries, plus another 50%-75% of the salary cost over again for full benefits and pensions, anywhere in the private sector. The same job outside of JEA pays half, with no benefits. I don't know of another city department, including yours, that has this kind of staff outlay.

I'm sorry, but making that much a year for managing a small call center, or the taxpayers spending millions to fund an advertising department for a government monopoly with no competition, just seems ludicrous to me. There is nothing like this in the private sector anywhere around this area.

[tufsu1]

Im willing to bet there are persons out there equally qualified for these positions who would do them for alot less.

good luck finding equally qualified folks for much less

[riverside planner]

You're making a straw-man, as you know, I never said "every single" JEA employee is overpaid.

I was reading your post as applying to all government workers, epecially those making six-figures, not just JEA.  You are just as guilty of making a straw man in your "LMAO" response to the fact that many of these positions are in fact very high stress.  I have not worked for the city in some time, having spent time in the private sector and now at another public agency, but given my experiences and the experiences of many of my colleagues, it frosts me to no end when the assumption is made that there is no way that these salaries are earned or appropriate.  And no, at no time have I ever made anywhere near six-figures.

[dougskiles]

A CEO at a company with absolutely no competetion is not making HUGE decisions and taking huge risks like a CEO at a private corporation. Anyone who thinks the CEO is the driving force in whether an aquisition is made, or has anything at all to do with day to day decisions obviously does not work within the realm of that level of management.

I don't agree with your assessment that the head of JEA is not making HUGE decisions.  Granted, they may not always be the right decisions, but they certainly have a HUGE impact on everyone in Jacksonville.  I can't think of anyone in Jacksonville who is not affected by those decisions.  The salary of the CEO is peanuts compared to overall cost of the utility operation.  That person could work for free and we would not see any drop in utility bills.  If we want a person capable of running an organization with this much impact on the community, then we would be wise to pay them competitively.  Otherwise, why would they come?

With regard to other city employees, my issue is not the amount of compensation, but the number of employees.  I can't think of a single engineering company in Jacksonville who hasn't significantly cut their staff size since 2007.  Yet, the number of plan reviewers hasn't been reduced accordingly.  I'm sure that some were lost due to attrition, but I don't recall hearing of any layoffs.

[stjr]

Doug, you make a good point.  JEA's decisions, made of necessity up to decades in advance, on multi-billion dollar power plants alone makes the salaries pale in comparison.

I recall reading that JEA is considering a 10% participation valued at $2 billion in a future nuclear power plant.  To make such a decision requires huge expertise and insight projected years into the future regarding the technology and environmental concerns of power sources, relative costs of fuels and the risks to the supply of those fuels, the ever changing winds of politics (local, state, national, and international) and regulations, customer demand based on both needs within businesses and homes as well as derived from population and lifestyle changes, the costs, risks, and impacts of various methods of financing such an investments, the elements needed to construct and operate, etc.  Just the interest at 5% on that single $2 billion decision would come to $100 million per year.  I don't think a low to middle six figure salary stands too tall against such a responsibility repeated over and over again during an executive's tenure with the utility.  And, that's not their only responsibility, but merely just one.

[ChriswUfGator]

Doug, you make a good point.  JEA's decisions, made of necessity up to decades in advance, on multi-billion dollar power plants alone makes the salaries pale in comparison.

I recall reading that JEA is considering a 10% participation valued at $2 billion in a future nuclear power plant.  To make such a decision requires huge expertise and insight projected years into the future regarding the technology and environmental concerns of power sources, relative costs of fuels and the risks to the supply of those fuels, the ever changing winds of politics (local, state, national, and international) and regulations, customer demand based on both needs within businesses and homes as well as derived from population and lifestyle changes, the costs, risks, and impacts of various methods of financing such an investments, the elements needed to construct and operate, etc.  Just the interest at 5% on that single $2 billion decision would come to $100 million per year.  I don't think a low to middle six figure salary stands too tall against such a responsibility repeated over and over again during an executive's tenure with the utility.  And, that's not their only responsibility, but merely just one.

No it doesn't. Management aren't nuclear engineers, they just review the engineering reports, cost estimates, and demand projections, and look at their budget, and then if it looks like a good idea they do it, if it doesn't they don't. Except with JEA the contrapositive is probably true, they don't do much unless it's a terrible idea. But I digress.

You people, seriously...what's next, we have to pay the cafeteria worker $200k/yr because it's such a hard decision to put the potatoes or the green beans out first, and that affects the 1,000 people a day that eat there? Have to give the garbagemen 6-figure raises too, because of the stress of deciding which can to pick up first? After all, they probably service 10,000 houses a week, that's a lot of people so it must be a really momentous decision...

The folks at building and zoning affect more people than JEA, at least they can control sprawl patterns.

And Riversideplanner, FYI, when someone says "LMAO" in response to your argument that's not a straw-man, it's just them saying you have a silly argument. Two different things. And STJR, I'm kind of scratching my head, you're like the government-waste watchdog around here, you spend half your time railing against the skyway and demanding it be torn down immediately to save less per year than a random smattering of any given 100 JEA salaries, and then you're cutting a blank pass for that agency employing a dozen people at $100k/yr +/- to market a monopoly? Seriously? This is kind of a credibility gap.

[stjr]

No it doesn't. Management aren't nuclear engineers, they just review the engineering reports, cost estimates, and demand projections, and look at their budget, and then if it looks like a good idea they do it, if it doesn't they don't. Except with JEA the contrapositive is probably true, they don't do much unless it's a terrible idea. But I digress.

Chris, to my original point, the salaries are "market based" unless you can demonstrate otherwise.  Is there another CEO/executive of another similar sized and operationally equivalent utility that makes substantially less than equivalent JEA personnel?  If so, you may have a point.  If not, then these salaries would appear to be appropriate.

Yes, executives rely on others for inputs but the executives are charged with making the final decisions and being bottom line accountable.  Why does Coach Del Rio make millions (several times the CEO of JEA) for managing 53 people playing a game of football to entertain others?  He also has all kinds of support including assistant coaches, scouts, trainers, etc.  His pay is market driven.  It is derived from the fact that if the team loses regularly he is accountable.  He get's those bucks to put wins on the field and for suffering the wrath of the fans when he doesn't.  Not unlike the CEO of a company working to satisfy both customers and "shareholders".  If one isn't going to get "battle pay", why bother going into "battle"?  Look at the conversation on this thread.  Would you want this kind of public scrutiny about you, your performance, and your pay?

You people, seriously...what's next, we have to pay the cafeteria worker $200k/yr because it's such a hard decision to put the potatoes or the green beans out first, and that affects the 1,000 people a day that eat there? Have to give the garbagemen 6-figure raises too, because of the stress of deciding which can to pick up first? After all, they probably service 10,000 houses a week, that's a lot of people so it must be a really momentous decision...

Chris, it's about the impact/gravity of the decisions and the supply of people to make them.  Are you qualified to run JEA?  If so, offer to do it for far less than the current executives and I am sure they will be happy to hire you.  If you are not qualified, then find someone who is that will work for far less.  Remember, they must be qualified or the pay means nothing.

And STJR, I'm kind of scratching my head, you're like the government-waste watchdog around here, you spend half your time railing against the skyway and demanding it be torn down immediately to save less per year than a random smattering of 25 JEA employees, and then you're cutting a blank pass for that agency employing a dozen people at $100k/yr +/- to market a monopoly? Seriously? This is kind of a credibility gap.

This is mixing apples and oranges but there is a common theme to my position you have missed.  In both cases, I am looking at costs/benefits driven by market forces.  When viewed this way, my positions are entirely consistent.

By the way, I am not giving JEA a blank check. If someone can show either the employees are paid above the "market" for their contributions and/or they are incompetent in their jobs, I join you in saying make changes.  But just alleging it doesn't prove it.  You are an attorney so I know you appreciate that standard of scrutiny.

And, point of information, the Skyway loses multiple times the pay of whatever 25 JEA employees you are referring to assuming the peak pay for that group is that of the CEO.

[dougskiles]

Chris, you write very strong words, so I am curious to know - do you have any experience working with the higher level management at JEA?  You must because to make those statements certainly implies such.  I work with the water & sewer engineering reviewers (much lower on the totem pole) on a regular basis and can say they are among the best I come across.  Very responsive and willing to work out common sense solutions.  I frankly don't care how much they make - I only care that they do their job.

If the CEO at JEA is not doing his job, I would prefer that he be fired and we find someone who will do the job.  Cutting the salary doesn't solve any problems.

[uptowngirl]

The engineers should be getting paid, they are actually the one's doing the work that makes the decisions, and implements the same.

CEO, not so much. Why should they make more? Especially in a govt ran org. I think Ms. Moran said it best on the news, the lady is spot on!