Ron Littlepage: Looking for ways to reinvigorate downtown Jacksonville

[thelakelander]

Downtown should be a self sustaining urban neighborhood.  Once we stop trying to attract suburbanites, realize that and all ow for it to happen, we'll find revitalization to be quite easy and affordable.

[thelakelander]

The basic question is "Do surburban neighborhoods pay enough taxes to cover the costs of basic services?"

If anyone has an answer, I would be interested in seeing the data.

No, they don't.  Bill Killingsworth has some data they've conducted that indicates the actual numbers.

[dougskiles]

The basic question is "Do surburban neighborhoods pay enough taxes to cover the costs of basic services?"

If anyone has an answer, I would be interested in seeing the data.

No, they don't.  Bill Killingsworth has some data they've conducted that indicates the actual numbers.

So, why not increase the property taxes in those areas to cover them?  I know the answer (nobody wants to upset the voters in those areas) but I think it is worth asking.

[Ocklawaha]

  And our city finances wouldn't be so stretched out due to the high cost of running a sprawled-out city.

As compared to what? Our finances wouldn't be stretched if we were 100 percent urban? were a non-consolidated city?

Actually, in this case, I think consolidation has been an asset. A tax base outside of its traditional city boundaries that can be tapped when the urban core is weak.

Water lines, water resources, sewerage, electric lines, streets, mass transit, fire, police, jails, rescue, schools, teachers, public health, pollution control, libraries, parks, maintenance, traffic control, administration, planning, just to name a few of the things that MUST be continuously extended farther and farther out in order to support suburban development. IN FACT, it is the opposite of what you speculate on here, the suburban model has collapsed and in no small part is responsible for the economic mess we find ourselves in today. Somewhere I have a list someplace of the things required each day just to keep pace with the rapid growth in our state in the last decade, and it's downright scary.

When a developer throws in streets and and 500 new homes, who do you think pays for that support which must be in place BEFORE the new residents arrive? HINT: IT AIN'T THE DEVELOPERS. A much more compact model is far easier to support, and a vertical city is less of a burden on those that already live there, then a horizontal sprawl.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Pedestrian scale connectivity at street level is a vital component to any successful downtown.  The easiest thing we can do to start facilitating that connectivity is to modify policy and "strongly" encourage or property owners and existing businesses to better integrate their establishments with the street.

Lake, this is exactly what I thought when I read the article.  It would be nice if Ron soaked up the diversity of ideas here before picking his horses to ride.  I am with him on some things but others he tends to way over simplify on.  It's like he doesn't think his audience (or maybe himself) can handle the full depth of the issues.  I credit him, though, for at least keeping these necessary subjects in the public eye.  Any discussion is better than none at all, even if it is off the mark some.

[spuwho]

When a developer throws in streets and and 500 new homes, who do you think pays for that support which must be in place BEFORE the new residents arrive? HINT: IT AIN'T THE DEVELOPERS. A much more compact model is far easier to support, and a vertical city is less of a burden on those that already live there, then a horizontal sprawl. [/b]

OCKLAWAHA

As far as I can tell, the impact fees, the CDD fees and property taxes, motor fuel taxes, sales taxes, along with my user fees pay for services rendered.

I agree with dougskiles, I would like to see Killingsworth's data. Having lived in many urban and suburban areas, if the model in consolidated Duval/Jax isn't viable, the fault isn't in the suburban approach, it's how it was executed in this area. North New Jersey, DuPage County in Illinois, Multnomah County in Oregon, King County in Washington, all areas where the suburban approach has been viable and successful. So I don't buy that the suburbian way is evil in all forms, on the flip side I have seen excellent and very poor urban execution,sometimes in the same city.

So while I know many are focused on approach, in this case I think it really is execution.

[ronchamblin]

     We are fortunate to have this forum through which we can discuss the city core problems and possible solutions.  I wish I had more time to contribute more to the issues related to revitalization.

     This coming April will be three years that I’ve been in business in the city core.  Today, Sunday, while talking on the phone with a customer, a female type, who wanted to pick up a book from the bookstore, I received what has become a frequent response to my question as to whether they wanted to pick up the book from the Roosevelt store or from the Laura street store.  I will try to remember her exact words.  “Oh, you are downtown? …..  I never go downtown.”  I said “Well, its okay … we are right here at Hemming Park …. Its quite convenient.”  “Oh no, I don’t want to go near Hemming Park… not alone.”  I said… “But really, its quite safe down here… we are open until five o’clock.”  “Just please just take the book to the Roosevelt store and I will pick it up there.”

     It is amazing to me how many of these reactions I get from customers who have the perceptions either that the downtown is unsafe, or that they will have too much difficulty parking.   

     Some customers ask why I closed the Roosevelt store on Sundays, as they remembered that I did good business when opened on that day.  I inform most that my intention is to keep the Roosevelt store closed on Sunday because it causes or forces some customers who get the urge to browse for books on a Sunday, to actually enter the city core.  This seems to be working, as our Sunday business is increasing with new customers.  We are actually staying quite busy on Sundays.  The ideal would be to place more businesses in the city core that offer something not available in the suburbs; such as is the case having the main library, MOCA, and the entities like the courthouse in the core. 

     I have thought occasionally, but lightly, as I don’t have the funds right now, about the idea of purchasing a large building, at least 50,000 sq. ft. in the city core, closing the Roosevelt bookstore and the current Laura street store, and having only the large downtown location as a bookstore/café.  It would be important that the parking be adjacent, and adequate for customer convenience.  I wonder how many customers I would lose because they would refuse to come into the city core.  If accomplished successfully, the move into the core would encourage more people to experience the city core.  There is a risk however in that, seeing an opportunity, a large bookstore competitor may open in the suburbs, thereby giving an alternative to those who wish to avoid the city core.  Of course, once a momentum of business was built, I believe that the city core location would thrive.                 

      As a side interest, regarding the “homeless”….  I have found that it is not difficult to keep the occasional individual who hasn’t bathed in a week or so, one of the so-called homeless types, out of the store and the café.  I simply tell them that they smell, and that the smell encroaches on the comfort of my customers, and that they will have to leave.  Life is good….. books, ideas, espresso, fresh air.   

 



     

[stjr]

Ron, as I read your post, it occurred to me that in many respects, the average citizen sees Downtown as a "gated community".  But, unlike a suburban gated community, where the gates keep the riff raff OUT, the downtown "gates," in the perception of those who think like the customer you quoted, are seen as keeping the riff raff IN.

What "walls" hold the "gates" of Downtown?  Psychologically, I would suggest they are elevated I-95 to the south and west, the river to the south and east, and the elevated MLK/20th Street Expressway to the north.  These "walls" are all massive physical dividers that only let citizens through at designated entry points (the "gates"), mainly bridges, overpasses (such as Park and Riverside Ave.), and exit ramps.  Few streets (Beaver, King/Union, North Main) enter downtown at grade.  This lack of perceived connectivity creates in many minds the idea that going downtown is akin to the "adventure" of wading through a swamp or climbing a mountain.

Now, imagine how that image might be challenged by a continuous and visible street car line guiding downtown visitors, for example, from your Roosevelt Store through Ortega/Avondale/Riverside and straight to the core of downtown.  Even if that customer avoided riding the streetcar, she could "follow the yellow brick road" ("steel rail") straight to downtown and not feel she is blazing a virgin path along the way but rather a well traveled one. She can immediately take comfort that she will not journey alone or arrive at her destination downtown stranded among a sea of inactivity.  

[Ocklawaha]

I live in WGV, (yeah, guilty as charged) I pay about $4,000 a year in CDD fees --- FOREVER. There are about 500 homes here which means something like $2 million dollars a year go to St. Johns County. Think that covers it? One highway overpass can cost $150 million, and at the rate of our CDD fees it would take 50 years just to pay for one lousy overpass. Check this out:

Here's a sampling of project construction costs:

+ SR 18 widening in rural King County - about $24.5 million per mile.
+ US 12 widening south of Tri Cities - about $3.7 million per mile.
+ I-5 widening in Vancouver â€" about $20.2 million per mile.
+ I-90 truck climbing lanes east of Cle Elum and at Vantage â€" about $1 million per mile.
+ I-5 HOV lanes from Tukwila to Fife â€" about $7 million per mile.

[ronchamblin]

    Interesting image Stjr…. the way you surrounded the city core by the various elevated streets, the river etc.  I presume you encourage providing something like a streetcars connecting outlying areas to the core.  Makes sense.  This permanent steel road would serve as “easy connection image” to anyone who had not yet become comfortable with traveling to the city core.  Also, it would be great in that workers and customers wouldn’t have to worry about parking in the core.  And, to be honest, I have always enjoyed riding streetcars and subways…. just because, in some odd way, they are different from the standard bus.  Yes … I’ve always thought it best for several reasons….. efficiency, air quality, parking solutions… to bring “things” like streetcars and trains back into the city’s transportation scenario.  The automobile has its place, but too many in a city environment?  Well, there is a limit, especially if we are to have a well functioning downtown. 

[I-10east]

Typically cafeterias like FBC's (opposed to restaurants) on campus-like settings (churches, colleges, hospitals etc) don't have signage that's visable from the street. Think on how impractical street level signage showing Shands cafeteria would be.   

[dougskiles]

     We are fortunate to have this forum through which we can discuss the city core problems and possible solutions.  I wish I had more time to contribute more to the issues related to revitalization.

Ron, thanks for taking the time.  I find your thoughts very insightful.

     I have thought occasionally, but lightly, as I don’t have the funds right now, about the idea of purchasing a large building, at least 50,000 sq. ft. in the city core, closing the Roosevelt bookstore and the current Laura street store, and having only the large downtown location as a bookstore/café.  It would be important that the parking be adjacent, and adequate for customer convenience.  I wonder how many customers I would lose because they would refuse to come into the city core.  If accomplished successfully, the move into the core would encourage more people to experience the city core.  There is a risk however in that, seeing an opportunity, a large bookstore competitor may open in the suburbs, thereby giving an alternative to those who wish to avoid the city core.  Of course, once a momentum of business was built, I believe that the city core location would thrive.                 

For me personally, the downtown location is more convenient than Roosevelt.  I would love to see a large store that you describe and would support it frequently.

[thelakelander]

Typically cafeterias like FBC's (opposed to restaurants) on campus-like settings (churches, colleges, hospitals etc) don't have signage that's visable from the street. Think on how impractical street level signage showing Shands cafeteria would be.   

The majority of those that aren't visible from the street (in any form) were constructed in the latter decades of the 20th century (ex. 1960s - 1980s).  That was an era where it was popular to isolate new development from the surrounding urban context. 

Now that we know better, we should strive to do better.  Signage, outdoor seating, awnings, transparent window openings, lighting or a combination of all are small affordable things we can do to expose many of our businesses to the street. 

In FBC's case, something as simple as transparent window openings can change the complexion of an entire city block.  In BOA's case, something as simple as umbrella seating outside the main entrances can change the feel of that entire city block.  Both of these represent easy to do things that we can accomplish overnight by policy change or working with building owners for the greater good of the environment they exist in.

[BridgeTroll]

Do these businesses want what you are proposing?  Are there reasons the businesses themselves are not pushing for those changes?  For example... the cafeteria may not want a clear view of the urban streetscape.  The BOA may have decided that outdoor seating is too much of a hassle or would not generate enough business to justify.

BTW... I wholeheartedly agree with your ideas... just looking for reasons why they have not happened already.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Mr. Chamblin,

Thank you for your insight and your committment to downtown.

I love your downtown store and go there every time I visit Jacksonville.