Fire Station No. 5 to come down soon?

[thelakelander]

The fight for old No. 5



A city land swap may hamper efforts to preserve a historic fire station.

By SARAH SAMORAJ, University Of North Florida

Jacksonville's Great Fire of 1901 destroyed about 2,370 buildings in downtown's most developed and populated areas within a few hours.

Fire Chief Thomas Haney, who built a small wooden fire station in the Brooklyn area, is known for leading the firefighting efforts. His station was later moved and a new station was built at 347 Riverside Ave. Today it is one of Brooklyn's oldest buildings standing for its original purpose - but possibly not for long.

The firefighters at Fire Station No. 5 are moving to a new location, but the future of their old building is far from certain.

City Councilwoman Glorious Johnson, a self-proclaimed history buff, and the Jacksonville Historic Preservation Commission are working to make No. 5 a city historical landmark. Johnson has introduced a bill in the council.

But Mayor John Peyton's administration opposes her efforts because they could jeopardize a land swap agreement the city and Fidelity National made in 2005. The city gave Fidelity land including the site where the fire station is, and Fidelity promised to make improvements including a park and gave the city other riverfront property.

"I don't want to take away progress," Johnson said. "But progress and preservation can work together."

Paul Harden, an attorney for Fidelity, said the company opposes Johnson's bill. He told the council Tuesday that the agreement with the city would allow the city to move the building now. But if the historic designation passes, the building and the ground beneath it would be a historic site, restricting Fidelity if the city does not move the building.

The new No. 5 fire station is slated to be finished Feb. 8, on Forest Street between Belfort Street and Woodlawn Avenue, a mile northwest of the station's present location.

After the firefighters settle into the new building, Johnson said, the city should move the old station to another site so Jacksonville can maintain its history without breaching its contract. She doesn't have a specific place to move it yet.

Johnson said the city did the same thing with Brewster Hospital, one of the places victims went during the Great Fire, which was moved as a landmark in 2006.

To move the golden-brick building is unfeasible, said Larry Peterson, chief of administrative services for the Jacksonville Fire and Rescue Department. He said the city's engineering department told him the building would have to be split into two or three pieces, which is impractical for a big, square building. Interstate 95 and downtown make it difficult to move the building by road.

Moving the building would be a "phenomenal" cost, and it could damage the structure, Peterson said. He pointed to the Catherine Street Fire Station Fire Museum, which was moved to Metropolitan Park from Bay Street in 1994 and has had flooding problems ever since.

"We love our heritage in this city with the fire department," Peterson said. "It's just unfortunate you can't preserve every single station."

The building could be moved to another location by barge, Johnson said.

"Destroying it is the easy way out," she said. "The right way is to find a place for it and utilize it."

Skot Wilson, a painting contractor who writes a blog about saving Fire Station No. 5, said the building should stay where it is and be converted into a fire safety training center to show live-fire demonstrations and teach kids how to save their own lives.

"It can continue to save lives like that and put a beautiful face on the city," he said. "I want to see it turn into what it needs to be: a repository for history and a teaching facility."

The building meets the criteria to be a historical landmark, said Joel McEachin, director of Jacksonville's Historic Preservation Commission. According to the commission, No. 5 is a significant reminder of architectural heritage for the city. It also cites Chief Haney as significantly contributing to the development of Jacksonville, and said the building has distinguishing characteristics of its period's architectural style.

According to the Times-Union in 1910, No. 5 was "large and commodious and will accommodate two pieces of apparatus, fire horses and fourteen men."

"I support the preservation of the fire station because of its historical nature," said Councilman Warren Jones, who has the station in his district. "It should have been preserved and put on the historical register a long time ago."

But now, the council is trying to preserve a building that's owned by Fidelity, Jones said.

Because the station is in Brooklyn, Riverside Avondale Preservation Inc. doesn't have any standing of its outcome, but as a general rule, it wants to see historical buildings preserved, said Bonnie Grissett, executive director.

There is little left today to remind people of this time in Jacksonville's history, Wilson said.

"It has been erased by people who place money and progress before legacy," he said, "and once it's gone it's gone forever."

Johnson's bill, 2007-988, had a public hearing Tuesday and is scheduled to be heard by the council's Land Use and Zoning Committee Meeting Nov. 6.

sarah.samoraj@jacksonville.com, (904) 359-4288

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/102407/met_211399025.shtml

[thelakelander]

So to sum it all up, the station will most likely not be moved because doing such is unfeasible and could destroy the building anyway.  This means it boils down to this.  Without a public outcry to gain the council's backing, its coming down because of the wheeling and dealing of the JEDC and the Mayor's Office.

Is there anyway to come up with a compromise?  Can the site be worked to incorporate the historic structure into whatever the city and Fidelity wants to do with it in the future?  Its been done in other cities before.....why not Jax for a change?

[Skot David Wilson]

Rather than go into complete details, note my blogsite   
http://SaveStationFive.blogspot.com 
My latest update discusses subdividing the parcel, "chipping" it away from the property so the building itself can remain. I also discuss how Reggie Fullwood got into bed with Fidelity and the mayor and wound up getting $500.00 + $500.00 + $500.00 + $500.00 + $500.00 + $500.00 + $500.00 + $500.00 +  et cetera, et cetera from Fidelity seemingly as a "thank you" and against the spirit of provisions of illegal campaign contributions. Fidelity should have given ONE contribution, like they do for everyone else.
That FACT that Fullwood, working as an agent of Fidelity and Peyton, smothered, covered, and put the matter of historic preservation off for so long is sickening.
And Harden was INCORRECT when he told the Council that Fidelity gave the city the land for the pocket park. How can you tell when a lawyer is lying? His lips are moving!
The city owned that property. Fidelity gave the city land it could have taken under domain for the Riverwalk, which serves as a nice landscape feature for Fidelity, so was in their best interests, and gave the city a retention pond, which is used mostly by Fidelity, which the city now needs to maintain.
Fidelity merely developed a "pocket park" with very limited parking hidden from public view and will best serve the lunch recreational needs of Fidelity.
This was a dirty deal from the get-go. How can you say you the city will suffer no adverse loss of value then dismiss three provisions that require sending the matter to historical review, making an assesment of the value of the property, and waiving public auction?
I can be reached at SaveStationFive@comcast.net and 781-9473
Let's put some fire under them to keep this property. They can't complain about 988 because they KNEW it was an historic site and open to get concern when they made the deal.
Besides, don't our firefighters and our children and legacy deserve a higher standard???

[vicupstate]

Instead of creating another under-utilized 'pocket park', why not renovate the Fire Station back to it's original design (ie sans time-period-irrelevant windows), then the city can let the FD use the upstairs for training or storage or offices or musuem or whatever.  Then lease out the bottom floor to .......Firehouse Subs .... or..... Nicki G's Pizza.   Riverside Ave. certainly has the traffic count to support a fast food restaurant, and if the park is intended for lunch patrons why not give them a place to BUY lunch?  Not to mention the Riverwalk patrons could actually have a place to buy a soda or a meal.

Seeing how this is a FIREHOUSE and FIREHOUSE SUBS is a home-grown, bona fide, local boys done good success story, and this firehouse is at the very entrance to their home city's DT,  this seems like a hand in glove match to me.



Oh wait, this would meaning doing several things that are anathema to Jacksonville, namely, 1) preserving history, 2) showcasing local talent and cuisine 3) being creative and showing vision.   On second thought, nevermind.       
   

     

[Skot David Wilson]

Part of an original idea was for Five to become a possible restaurant or retail store, and for parking to be extended along the backside. But I think we can do better.
Note also that Reggie Fullwood got loads of $500 contributions from various Fidelity accounts at $500 a pop adding up to almost ten grand! This seems to be a villation of election contribution laws, if in spirit at least. Fidelity is under one banner, and the checks came from the same floor of the same building of the same company. Using various accounts seems improper, and w way to circumvent laws on campaign contributions. It seems as if he was given a paid "thank you" for doing the bidding of Peyton and Fidelity and quietly smothering Councilwoman Johnson's efforts to have it designated as historic. Fullwood was in the pocket of Peyton and Fidelity, and you can see the payoff.
And Harden was either lying or misleading in that Fidelity gave the land for the "pocket park" The city already owned the land the park is to be on, and we gave Fidelity a very, very valuable piece of real estate and got a retention pond and some Riverwalk frontage, that Fidelity uses as a beautification project for its own back yard.
Now the city must maintain the retention pond that Fidelity is the main beneficary of. We got a little bit of Riverwalk and a brown baggers park, mainly to be used by Fidelity employees for lunch, and very little parking in exchange for part of the soul of the city, and our collective legacy.
There is very little visibility of this "pocket park" to the public. It serves hardly any use for all but a handful of Jacksonville residents. It is, however, part of the landscaping for that giant corporate mall, paid in reality at the expense of the loss of real value by the city.
City law stipulates that any property transfer must not see the loss of value by the city, that everything must go by historic for review, that all disposed of or traded property be auctioned, and that an assessment of the values of any property to be traded or sold be taken. ALL of that was waived. That suggest something to hide, and how can anyone know if they are to lose anything if they don't look at the value of it???
Fullwood, Peyton, and Fidelity, all acting improperly. Money makes its own circles I guess, and we aren't invited in.
I think it needs to stay, right where it is. Fidelity complains that it "hurts" them, but does it really? Didn't they already know it was an historic site? Yes, they all did. If someone owns wetlands or a forest with an endangered species, and laws say don't build on wetlands or where endangered species have habitats, then that's just too bad, especially if they knew when they were getting the property that they could be deined building on it because of special circumstances. You see, Fidelity and Peyton and Fullwood ALL knew it was historic, but thought they could make it all just go away and simply didn't care. They almost got away with it.
Fidelity may be left holding the bag, but yes they knew it going in so I say approve 2007-988. If they want to make a 10 foot easement around Station Five and develop the rest then "so be it", but at least we preserve something that really is owned by the public.
If Fidelity is that selfish, I say send them packing, jobs and all. Someone else better could take their place with ease. This should be an alarm like a city wide fire to people, and remember that on that site a city wide fire was responded to. Besides, if we really want to reduce crime, then aren't things like Five important? It is proven that in areas where history is well preserved that crime is lower anyway. It teaches lessons that kids carry for a lifetime, and gives a sense of community, pride, and self-respect that this city washes away as soon as some golf course deal is struck and big money is placed above the people.

[vicupstate]

The campaign contribution situation you describe may violate the spirit of the law, but not the letter.  It is commonplace in fact.  Just today I read where presidential campaigns are getting 'contributions' from the young children of their affluent parents.   

Personally, if I were you, I would accept saving the building any way that it can happen. If you insist on the entire 'loaf', you will likely get not even crumbs.  If Firehouse Subs bought into the idea, they would have some clout that otherwise wouldn't be own your side. 

You will also lose support that you might otherwise have, by being cavalier about the jobs that Fidelity brings and their importance as a corporate player.

Stop battling 'the system' and concentrate on saving the building.  The building is what is in immenient danger, 'the system' can be fixed later.  Believe me, I understand your frustration, but you HAVE to pick your battles. 

The trick is to get the other side to see YOUR vision and why it would be a win-win to preserve the building.  Fidelity is seeing the building as it exists TODAY.   They need to see the building as it COULD BE.  Examples of other similiar fire stations that have been rehabbed into other uses would serve that purpose well.  If you can convince a local architect to draw up some plans/renderings of Station 5, that would be even better. 
 
Just the benefit of my own experiences.       

[Skot David Wilson]

I appreciate that, and understand it, and tried that way to no avail when I was fighting to save Normandy Elementary and some things environmental back in Jersey ages ago. I think by being unrelenting, that leaving the more diplomatic approach to others will result in some positive outcomes. Everyone I've met with is surprised that I am civil. They go back to lies and half-truths and playing duck-and-cover, and I hammer, and sometimes enough shakes loose to reach or force compromises that all can walk away happy with.
Before I make it a commercial salvation, I think my appeal to simply what is right with "village-ance" will work. I can always compromise and back off later. Like the BusHeat issue ( http://busheat.blogspot.com ), I tried nice, and it got ignored. It seems people doing things they know are wrong at times takes a hardline approach. It took tyat to finally get to meet with the mayor's office, and I walked away with a level of respect and understanding I hope, on both sides.
I don't think even Peyton is out to do wrong, I think they are just more misdirected and have different sets of priorities. I call it as I see it, with blunt plain simple language that may offend at times, but if I can get people thinking and involved, I've done my job and duty.
I will settle for them subdividing Five from the rest of the property. I think that is the most logical and actually cost effective approach. I'd personally like to see, and this is my idea, to see Blue Cross and Fidelity share in development of the parking lot next to the building, and making a park with Station Five as the anchor as the front yard. It would make everyone happy. Fidelity wants utility more than profit. This is something that has the interest and/or support of Glorious, Fidelity, and Blue Cross I think, or at least hope.
It needs to stay, and it was my un-relenting pressure that got this matter back on the table, with Glorious Johnson becoming outraged that provisions she was promised being discovered to not having occured. Glorious Johnson is more sincere and honest and truly decent than most people I've seen sitting in an elected seat in a long time, and My list of "best" elected officials is short. It is Glorious, Denise Lee, Brenda Priestly-Jackson, Clay Yarbourgh and John Rutherford.
I don't fully trust any others I think.... although some I think may be worthy of that level of respect from me, but time will tell that to my center of opinion.
Until then, I will be looking for anything out of place or wrong. If and when I find it, I get leverage, which seems to be the name of the game. It is what is mandated by dealing with people who will lie and manipulate things for agendas that may not be totally above board, or are so grossly misdirected......
but, thanks for the advice........