Rick Mullaney Unveils Plan for Jacksonville

[stjr]

Rick, your Skyway position bothers me.

Rick, your Skyway position dazzles me.  

Make sure you read the many Skyway threads on MJ and go back and read the T-U's archives over the last 25 years or so on the subject to glean both sides of the story and put it in context with its succession of failed promises that eerily sound like those still being made here.  Then decide.  And, as I posed in my previous post, consider street cars instead of the Skyway if you have the good (this I agree with Ock on) inclination to introduce rail transit to downtown in the most efficient, user friendly, beneficial, flexible, cost effective, aesthetically pleasing,  and sustainable way possible.

[stjr]

There's no telling how much money we could save if we eliminated duplicate services on our bus routes.  Eliminate all bus routes within the CBD (funnel them into the skyway's end points...make sure the turnstiles are working) and let the skyway and the PCTs serve that market.  You'll cut O&M costs, increase skyway ridership and fares at the same time.  Also work with the Southbank office complexes.  Most pay for their own transit services instead of relying on JTA. Perhaps some deal could be worked out that saves them money and puts more butts on the public transit services already being provided.

Or, perhaps, force all the bus riders onto the Skyway and spread its cancer to the bus system which then joins the Skyway in suffering a slow death.

I am all for saving costs, but the "duplication" that needs to be removed is the much more expensive Skyway (that may not be able to compete with buses because buses do a better job?).

In your plan, I don't think bus riders will take the Skyway (firstly, because of the added trip time it creates) in the numbers you suggest and the resulting decrease in bus ridership will just had to JTA's woes and give mass transit a bigger black eye in this community than it already has.  Besides, it seems most buses serving downtown already run to Rosa Parks for transfers.  And, if bus riders still want to take the Skyway, they can transfer to it there.  In your plan, would you have an inbound bus rider transfer at a Skyway terminus to go to another Skyway terminus to transfer to another outbound bus?  That doesn't sound like a winner to me.

By the way, how many bus riders actually go downtown to work at an office near a Skyway station?  You know, all those TOD Skyway office towers Tufsu was trying to imagine?

[tufsu1]

well here's my question...the only thing about transit in the 34 points is anti-Skyway...so is Mr. Mullaney in favor of any form of transit...and if so, what?

[Ocklawaha]

Bottom line Rick?

New hybrid/Electric bus  @ $800,000 a copy,
uses city streets, or busway

New Light Rail System @ $30,000,000 per mile
includes all track, cars, equipment,
cars can run in trains with a single motorman

New Commuter Rail System @ $5,000,000 per mile
includes stations, trains, and operating agreement-lease on private track
contract operator

New HERITAGE Streetcar System @ $10,000,000 per mile (JTA figures)
includes all track, cars, equipment (modern streetcar will cost close to Light Rail)
cars usually need a motorman per car, however historically a second car is possible with a single operator

New Skyway Extension @ $15,000,000 per mile if it is scaled back to basic monorail and stations
and as JTA built the original about double that amount.
includes all track, trains, and stations to expand the line.

Advantages:
Hybrid Bus/Electric Bus - no pollution, quiet
Disadvantages:
Still deals with traffic, and busway-exclusive lane BRT costs as much as rail

Advantages:
Light Rail - no pollution, quiet, large capacity-expandable, low operating costs, high speed. huge development magnet
Disadvantages:
Surface lines may be in street or private right of way, street lines at the mercy of traffic

Advantages:
Commuter Rail - Uses railroad routes already in place, could open new port route, lowest start up cost
Disadvantages:
Must deal with private railroads and Amtrak, JRTC would need to be complete on rail side

Advantages:
Heritage Streetcar - no pollution, quiet, medium capacity, development magnet
Disadvantages:
Urban Core Routes all in-street at mercy of traffic,

Advantages:
Skyway - no pollution, quiet, expandable trains, capable of higher speeds, above all traffic, no crossings
Disadvantages:
Perceived high costs of construction

You get out of each according to what you put into it - as JTA has so nobly demonstrated.


OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

If we're talking money, the 2030 Mobility Plan and Mobility Fee generates "traffic concurrency" money for a few fixed mass transit corridors discussed in this thread so far.  If utilized properly, these starter lines could be up and running by/or in the next mayor's second term and directly tie together every major existing medical facility in DT and the surrounding urban core.  Land use regulations have already been modified to facilitate the future the development of denser infill around them, so it presents a perfect opportunity to market rate DT/Northside revitalization and job creation without having to raise taxes or spend huge sums of money that we don't have.  Just something to keep in mind.  Since a major goal of Mullaney's vision involves building opportunities in our healthcare industry and a possible urban medical district in the Shands area, here is an example of what can happen when you tie fixed mass transit, supportive land use, education and healthcare together.

Washington University Medical Center (Central West End neighborhood) - St. Louis, MO



The Shands and Baptist area can quickly begin to resemble this type of scene (St. Louis' Central West End) with the right planning and implementation.  A fixed mass transit connection with DT and other neighborhoods has been a significant element in this district's ability to densify with walkable healthcare sector related infill and complementing development.  Its a prime example of integrating medical facilities and fixed mass transit to create a vibrant employment center that has fueled the redevelopment of the neighborhoods surrounding it.


The Institute of Health at Washington University School of Medicine was recently completed on the large construction site adjacent to the rail station in this image.  As a part of this project, Euclid Avenue was converted into a pedestrian promenade and public plaza between the rail line, hospital and school.

Washington University Medical Center comprises 135 acres spread over approximately 12 city blocks, located along the eastern edge of Forest Park within the Central West End neighborhood of St. Louis. The campus is home to the Washington University School of Medicine and its associated teaching hospitals, Barnes-Jewish Hospital and St. Louis Children's Hospital. Many of the buildings are connected via a series of skyways and corridors.

The School's 2,100 employed and volunteer faculty Physicians & Nurse Practitioners also serve as the medical staff of Barnes-Jewish and St. Louis Children's hospitals, which are part of BJC HealthCare. Washington University and BJC have taken on many joint venture projects, such as the Center for Advanced Medicine, completed in December 2001.

Olin Residence Hall, named for Spencer T. Olin, provides residential services for 200 medical and graduate students.

The Medical Campus is accessible via the Central West End MetroLink station, which provides a quick link to the Danforth, North, and West Campuses.

Medical Campus Includes:

Barnes-Jewish Hospital
Central Institute for the Deaf
St. Louis Children's Hospital
Rehabilitation Institute of Saint Louis
Siteman Cancer Center
Center for Advanced Medicine
Eric P. Newman Education Center (conference and convention center)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_University#Medical_Campus




Looking at the School of Medicine from Metrolink's Central West End LRT station.  For the last decade, medical and educational facilities have been developed around a neighborhood LRT station.


As soon as you exit the passenger platform you are in the heart of the medical complex.  Here, a major street was closed to auto traffic and reopened as a central pedestrian walk and green space in 2010.


A recent addition (St. Louis College School of Pharmacy) to the medical district can be seen from the rail stop.


Opportunities for supporting infrastructure.  With the cluster of medical and educational facilities built within compact walking distance of the rail stop, it was feasible for a Barnes & Nobles bookstore to open.  This serves as an asset for a neighborhood that would not have been able to support this type of retail without the clustering of medical, educational and transportation uses.


Infill supportive residential recently developed across the street from medical center and transit station.  Residents are within walking distance of this employment center and several other neighborhoods and DT (via reliable mass transit). Could this become 8th Street or San Marco Blvd?


More infill to support the surrounding uses.  This infill equates to a healthy economic environment for the surrounding neighborhoods, additional job creation opportunities and tax revenue for the city.


By having access to the rest of the city and a major employment cluster, opportunities for small businesses begin to open up as well.  Springfield, San Marco, Brooklyn, DT and Durkeeville are examples of communities where opportunities like this would become feasible without public subsidizing.

You'll find similar examples of this in many of our more progressive peer cities across the country. Here are two more:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-sep-is-jacksonville-ready-for-an-urban-medical-district

Just something to keep in mind.  How we handle the mass transit issue in this city has less to do with transportation and a lot more to do with community building, neighborhood revitalization, enhancing educational opportunities, job creation and economic development.

[thelakelander]

Just for comparison's sake, here are a few scaled aerials of Washington University Medical Center, Shands, Baptist Health and St. Vincent's.  Like most major medical facilities, parking is a critical issue so they naturally become viable anchors for fixed mass transit systems. 

Washington University Medical Center


Shands Jacksonville

Green = Bus Rapid Transit (proposed), Red = urban commuter rail (proposed, an initial 10-year CIE funded priority project in 2030 Mobility Plan), Purple = streetcar (proposed)

Baptist Health

Blue = skyway (existing), Green = Bus Rapid Transit (proposed), Red = commuter rail (proposed)

St. Vincent's

Purple = streetcar (proposed, an initial 10-year CIE funded priority project in 2030 Mobility Plan)

St. Louis found a way to take advantage of this, cluster complementing local assets together and transform the area around the medical complex into a vibrant walkable district and economic powerhouse.  We can do the same.

[dougskiles]

Doug, just tell the taxpayers your ideas and the costs associated with them versus the "benefits" (hey, after you drag your butt all the way in from the distant burbs, you get to ride a cramped, pokey, wait-a-while Skyway the last few blocks to a stop still blocks from your destination - and when you could walk it faster) and watch the "haters" as you call us (I guess that makes proponents "lovers") come out of the woodwork like ants crawling from a stirred up mound.

stjr, I am trying to do exactly that and I welcome dissenting views.  I'm not afraid of opposition, and I'm not going to get bitterly angry about it when people don't share my view.  I completely respect your opinions and I find them to be well-researched and thought out.  I just don't agree with all of them.  From what I have investigated so far, the best way to connect the neighborhoods south of the railroad tracks to downtown by transit appears to be extending the Skyway.  If someone proposes a better solution, I am all for it.  And I will be the biggest cheerleader.  I want Jacksonville to have a functional transit system.  I believe we can do better than the current bus system or any system proposed that uses buses.  From my perspective, those systems are not working any better than the Skyway in terms of capturing increased ridership or promoting high quality urban living.

I am not suggesting that we increase taxes or take money from services that are already strapped to pay for this.  But let's face it, we won't be in this budget mess forever.  With the right mayor (one who can bring people together - and not divide them) it won't take long to get things back in order.  So why not plan now for that day?

As to your question, which would I prefer if I could only have an extension to the Skyway or a streetcar system, you need to be more specific.  It depends on where that streetcar system would be and what it would connect to.  If you are talking about a streetcar system in San Marco, I would vote for the Skyway extension because of the issues with the railroad tracks.  If we are talking about Riverside or Springfield, I would vote for the streetcar.  I don't see why it has to be only one?  A functional transit system consists of many types - hence the name 'multi-modal' that we keep talking about.  As we get farther from the core, the system has to change to be effective.

[dougskiles]

How we handle the mass transit issue in this city has less to do with transportation and a lot more to do with community building, neighborhood revitalization, enhancing educational opportunities, job creation and economic development.

Exactly.  And yet, by having a separate transportation authority that is in no way connected to these other elements of our community, we have gotten where we are today.  Can we pull the transit element of JTA's operation away from them and start over with a more integrated approach.  Something so critical to the fabric of our community should not be operating as independently as they seem to be doing.

[peestandingup]

He doesnt use mass transit of any form and you are simply not going to change his mind.  His sole raison d'etre on this subject is to see the skyway torn down, and he is going to conduct his one man crusade on this until we can get it properly extended and better utilized.

I suspect that he is simply anti transit, given the fact that he doesnt use any form of it, but I wouldnt actually place money on it.

Tell me you're not suggesting that if someone living in Jacksonville FL doesn't use the city's crappy mass transit system that they're automatically against all mass transit.

[acme54321]

Saying that someone is totally anti-transit just becasue they don't use the skyway or busses is ridiculous.

[dougskiles]

Doug, dont mind STJR.

I don't mind.  I find him both challenging and entertaining.  I also agree that his participation is an asset to this forum in many ways.

Keep it coming, STJR!

And, thanks for the encouragement, Stephen.

[Ocklawaha]

Saying that someone is totally anti-transit just becasue they don't use the skyway or busses is ridiculous.

It's kind of funny if you think about it, for all practical purposes - WE ALL DRIVE CARS, yet many of us hate them and the road they came in on. On the other hand, many people ride mass transit, and though they may bitch about a wait, or bumpy ride, they'll go to the polls and support mass transit initiatives every time.

Sort of makes you wonder doesn't it?

OCKLAWAHA

[simms3]

^^^Hmmm, I know there are plenty of supporters, but I wouldn't say that in most places there isn't a struggle at the ballot for people to approve any sort of local funding measures or tax increases for a transit system.  Even in Charlotte right now there are probably more people against expanding LYNX than for expanding it.

That, and we don't all hate our cars.  I love good public transit, but I also love my car.  It has a great sound system, leather seats, and privacy .

[thelakelander]

I'm a fiscal conservative.  I don't hate my truck or roads.  I hate not having a choice of viable mobility options while being forced to subsidize the most expensive form of mobility, knowing it means taking more money out of my pockets to keep it afloat.  

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I personally use both frequently.  I don't have the major problems that others seem to have with JTA, but I do see major need for fixes.

Example - I can catch the bus in for work WS-2 or WS-52(express) and it takes about 10-15 minutes to get from my stop to DT (about the same as driving, it's a pretty straight shot), but the problem arises when it has to make so many stops, Water St, AT&T Bldg, Landing, etc.... so my 15 minute trip downtown now takes an additional 25 minutes to get to my transfer at Rosa Park - all of these stops are withing 1/8 mile of a Skyway station (less than the 1/4 mile that seems to be the RoT)  Why, JTA, why?  Especially the express bus - it should be a point to point service.  If even just one of these buses would go straight to the Rosa Park Terminal and let everyone feed from there to their destinations, I'm talking to you Skyway, then I can say without a doubt that you just increased the SW ridership by about 25 ppl/day.  Not very much, but how many instances does this happen?  Not only would you increase that ridership, you also just subtracted 30 minutes from the route by bypassing all of the DT stops - so you can run those busses effectively every 30 minutes instead of every hour without adding any expense other than gas.