Congresswoman Giffords, Others Shot/Killed in Arizona

[ChriswUfGator]

Look at the hand engraving on this winchester as an example;



Or this middle eastern tribal hunting rifle;



I guess to each their own, but I find a lot of elegance in these designs. Or you mean the act of shooting someone is inelegant? I'd agree with that, I've never shot anybody and doubt I'll ever have to.

[NotNow]

So you have no problem with semi auto pistols and rifles or high capacity magazines.  And no opinion on private ownership of fully automatic weapons, or crew served weapons.  Good.  Thanks.

I really don't.

I believe Americans have the right to be armed, for many of the same reasons that you do.  As I believe that I stated when we first opened up the conversation.

I do not personally carry a gun.  They literally make my flesh crawl to be in the same presence with them.  I have been at gunpoint a number of times in my life, and do not like them.

I have never fired a gun, nor do I plan on learning how to do so.  They are an inelegant and cold blooded weapon in my opinion.  However, like cigarette smoke, pot, too much jesus, too little education or cheap vodka, I strongly believe that people have the right and more importantly the privilege to indulge and carry them if they like.

I havent made up my mind about rapid fire automatic weapons.  I have been holding out to decide if there really is a circumstance where the Citizen really has a need for these.

So why do you support the illegalization of WMDs?

Well, thanks for the burst of honesty.  I support the restriction of fissile material to the government.  

As a law enforcement officer, fully support the laws as currently written.  

My personal opinion is that the tragic occurrences such as Columbine and Tucson are not the result of any gun or weapon problem, but are rooted in other problems in our American society.  I believe we should quit wasting time with this debate and move on to those other problems.

I trust the American public and I believe in freedom.  I believe that the founding fathers had more brains in their pinkies than our current crop of DC politicians, and I have studied and believe in the principles that they founded this country on.  In a NotNow world the Federal government would be limited to its clearly enumerated responsibilities.  A NotNow world would be MUCH less regulated, and yes, citizens would be welcome to defend themselves and denounce any person or government they wanted.  I am not advocating the return of any of the evils of the past such as slavery or child labor, and I am not condemning any past generation.  I am for returning to the freedom envisioned by the founders of this nation.  

I think we should encourage the citizen soldier.  And issue government weapons to those that serve.  I advocate a return to common sense and common vision.

[NotNow]

Assault weapon?  What does that mean?  

I have to say, I think of firearms as tools and have no interest in antiques, or "collections".  I own a few "hunting" arms.   But what I own is for personal defensive carry or offensive long guns.  And trust me StephenDare!, there are LOTS of situations where you want all of the gun you can carry.

[NotNow]

So why do you support the illegalization of WMDs?

What does that mean?

[NotNow]

What is an "assault weapon"?

[ChriswUfGator]

When I say that I mean an auto or semiauto that by design or modification holds more rounds than what would ever be reasonably necessary in any given situation outside of a mass-killing.

[NotNow]

So why do you support the illegalization of WMDs?

What does that mean?

StephenDare!, there are enough chemicals in your house to kill tens or more of people in minutes.   An automoble can be a WMD in just five minutes using nothing but the vehicle and what it carries.  What you guys are not getting is that the problem is NOT the weapon, a weapon is easy.  The problem is the person who wants to kill, either singly or in mass.  THAT is where your concern should lie.

[NotNow]

What is an "assault weapon"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

Assault weapon is a non-technical term referring to any of a broad category of firearms with certain features, including some semiautomatic rifles, some pistols, and some shotguns. There are a variety of different statutory definitions of assault weapons in local, state, and federal laws in the United States that define them by a set of characteristics they possess. Using lists of physical features or specific firearms in defining assault weapons in the U.S. was first codified by the language of the now-expired 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban.[1]

Very generally speaking, a semi-automatic firearm is defined by these laws as an assault weapon if it has both a detachable magazine and a pistol grip, sometimes in conjunction with other features such as a folding stock or a flash suppressor. Assault weapons are often similar in appearance to military firearms, but are capable of firing only once each time the trigger is pulled.

Which was the joke of the 1994 law.  A semi auto weapon is a semi auto weapon, regardless of a "grip".   Almost all semi auto pistols have a detachable magazine, as do many sporting arms.  A folding stock and a flash suppressor never hurt anyone.  The truth is that there is absoluly no difference between an AR-15, which has a pistol grip and flash suppressor and looks exactly like a military M16, and a mini-14, which has neither the pistol grip or suppressor and "looks" like a sporter but fires exactly the same bullet in exactly the same way as the AR-15.  There is no logical basis  for such a distinction.

[ChriswUfGator]

Well NotNow, these nut bags could decide to blow up a kitchen with chemicals or run someone over with a car, but they don't, they always walk into a public meeting or a public school and shoot the place to hell. That is the real, not hypothetical, M.O. Or is your point just that if it weren't done this way, they'd find another way? Wouldn't it at least be more difficult if regulations on high capacity magazines were stricter? What other purpose does someone need that for?

[NotNow]

So why do you support the illegalization of WMDs?

What does that mean?

StephenDare!, there are enough chemicals in your house to kill tens or more of people in minutes.   An automoble can be a WMD in just five minutes using nothing but the vehicle and what it carries.  What you guys are not getting is that the problem is NOT the weapon, a weapon is easy.  The problem is the person who wants to kill, either singly or in mass.  THAT is where your concern should lie.

I assume you are also against using those household chemicals to make bombs, right?

And would gladly arrest anyone you caught making a tide bomb or a fertilizer bomb?

Im just asking you why you support laws making personal nuclear weapons illegal.

Yes, of course.  I support the current laws, remember?  You can read back on the nuclear weapon, I'm tired of repeating myself.  

I thought you wanted to be honest, but you like games too much.  This is a subject that you are not familiar with, and is too important to play word games with.  

Have a good night.

[ChriswUfGator]

What is an "assault weapon"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

Assault weapon is a non-technical term referring to any of a broad category of firearms with certain features, including some semiautomatic rifles, some pistols, and some shotguns. There are a variety of different statutory definitions of assault weapons in local, state, and federal laws in the United States that define them by a set of characteristics they possess. Using lists of physical features or specific firearms in defining assault weapons in the U.S. was first codified by the language of the now-expired 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban.[1]

Very generally speaking, a semi-automatic firearm is defined by these laws as an assault weapon if it has both a detachable magazine and a pistol grip, sometimes in conjunction with other features such as a folding stock or a flash suppressor. Assault weapons are often similar in appearance to military firearms, but are capable of firing only once each time the trigger is pulled.

Which was the joke of the 1994 law.  A semi auto weapon is a semi auto weapon, regardless of a "grip".   Almost all semi auto pistols have a detachable magazine, as do many sporting arms.  A folding stock and a flash suppressor never hurt anyone.  The truth is that there is absoluly no difference between an AR-15, which has a pistol grip and flash suppressor and looks exactly like a military M16, and a mini-14, which has neither the pistol grip or suppressor and "looks" like a sporter but fires exactly the same bullet in exactly the same way as the AR-15.  There is no logical basis  for such a distinction.

Wasn't the original intent to target fully automatic weapons, and those that could easily be converted back?

[NotNow]

Well NotNow, these nut bags could decide to blow up a kitchen with chemicals or run someone over with a car, but they don't, they always walk into a public meeting or a public school and shoot the place to hell. That is the real, not hypothetical, M.O. Or is your point just that if it weren't done this way, they'd find another way? Wouldn't it at least be more difficult if regulations on high capacity magazines were stricter? What other purpose does someone need that for?

No, they don't always walk in and shoot the place up.  Many weapons are used in such crimes.  Autos, bombs, knives, hammers.  The point, once again, is that we should focus on what drives the killer, not the tool.

I have to get up in the morning, have a good night.

[NotNow]

What is an "assault weapon"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

Assault weapon is a non-technical term referring to any of a broad category of firearms with certain features, including some semiautomatic rifles, some pistols, and some shotguns. There are a variety of different statutory definitions of assault weapons in local, state, and federal laws in the United States that define them by a set of characteristics they possess. Using lists of physical features or specific firearms in defining assault weapons in the U.S. was first codified by the language of the now-expired 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban.[1]

Very generally speaking, a semi-automatic firearm is defined by these laws as an assault weapon if it has both a detachable magazine and a pistol grip, sometimes in conjunction with other features such as a folding stock or a flash suppressor. Assault weapons are often similar in appearance to military firearms, but are capable of firing only once each time the trigger is pulled.

Which was the joke of the 1994 law.  A semi auto weapon is a semi auto weapon, regardless of a "grip".   Almost all semi auto pistols have a detachable magazine, as do many sporting arms.  A folding stock and a flash suppressor never hurt anyone.  The truth is that there is absoluly no difference between an AR-15, which has a pistol grip and flash suppressor and looks exactly like a military M16, and a mini-14, which has neither the pistol grip or suppressor and "looks" like a sporter but fires exactly the same bullet in exactly the same way as the AR-15.  There is no logical basis  for such a distinction.

Wasn't the original intent to target fully automatic weapons, and those that could easily be converted back?

Any semi auto can be converted to auto.  It has nothing to do with the magazine, the grip, the stock, or any flash suppressor.  Your P220  and Mk III can be converted to fully auto easily.

[ChriswUfGator]

Yeah I know there has been a proliferation of conversion kits, but there's a difference between a full auto that accepts a 100 round drum and one using a normal 8 or 10 round clip, no? I mean, just comparing the destructive potential, one's clearly more dangerous than the other, no? I thought that was the intent behind that 1994 law, it was going after the high-capacity full autos. In any event, that law was a compromise that pleased nobody and failed at everything, I'm not defending it at all, I was in my early teens and don't remember much about it besides for my Dad complaining about it and running out to buy a full auto Uzi before it went into effect.

[Dog Walker]

Stephen,  Don't you think the wording of the second amendment limits the kinds of weapons that are legal for civilians to those that can be "borne"?  That is only those that can be carried.