Abel Harding's 2011 Plan For Downtown

[ChriswUfGator]

Pretty sure this is the second time COJ has wound up with that parcel.

And however you slice it, getting $5mm worth of improvements done to a <$10mm piece of property all for the bargain price of $36.5mm was not exactly a no-loss deal. It was a total rip-off...

This is exactly why government should just focus on doing what it does with some modicum of competency, rather than trying to get into private business deals. The money would have been far better spent on mass transit, or being used to mothball vacant buildings downtown instead of tearing them down, or hell have you driven in Riverside lately we have potholes that will swallow your car whole.

It would be less irritating to me if they did what they were supposed to do and did it well, before branching out into harebrained development schemes that wind up being taxpayer cash giveaways, but they don't even do that much.

[ChriswUfGator]

Shipyards $36,500,000 of taxpayer money gone. This $30,000,000 single is the kind that is hit deep and hits the top of the wall and you thought it was a homerun but you'll take that single.

The Shipyards money was not exactly lost....the City got the land back...and an improved bulkhead to boot!

That said, I'm all for streetcar....just noting that it is a good chunk of money for a "single"...more like a 3-run bases clearing single.

We had the land to begin with. Now we're back to where we started, minus $36.5mm. How's that not "lost"?

well take a look at the pics fieldafm posted yesterday in another thread....see the concrete bulkhead....that wasn't there before...and then there's the environmental remediation

That bulkhead and fill dirt didn't cost $36.5mm, Tufsu. Let's admit it, we got ripped off...

[thelakelander]

Looking back, would it have really been a negative if the Spence family were allowed to develop a private port terminal at that location?

[fieldafm]

I thought TriLegacy owned the land when the original deal was put together years ago?  Before the city got involved, their original intentions was to redevelop the property as cold storage warehousing.

Right.  Delaney wanted to purchase the property as part of BJP and turn it into a massive riverfront park, but that never happened.  TriLegacy wanted to have warehousing facilities on the property before they were persuaded with carrots dangling in front to instead steer towards a massive residential development.

TUFSU is right about the bulkheads.  About 10 million or so was spent on the reinforcing the buikheads, so fortunately extending the riverwalk and connecting with MetroPark won't be terribly expensive(as that was the biggest expense line item)... and there was SOME environmental remediation done but the city definately lost some cash overall on the entire process.  

It's critical that proper planning and foresight gets put to use on the property.  The land is WAY more valuable to squander away again.

[thelakelander]

Considering the bulkhead is already in place, I wonder how much would it cost to finish the riverwalk?

[fieldafm]

Looking back, would it have really been a negative if the Spence family were allowed to develop a private port terminal at that location?

Sometimes you get an unexpected gift that changes your life.

I think this property is one of those gifts quite honestly.  I envision a public pier park, a revamped Hogans Creek/Klutho-Confederate Park Greenway, activated water sport uses with finger piers to mitigate tidal currents along the Hogan Creek basin that will allow kayaking and small sailing(think East Boston Pier Park), and mixed use development along the remainder of the property.

Our riverfront is currently an exercise in wasted potential.  Why can't we polish off this gem?

[fieldafm]

Considering the bulkhead is already in place, I wonder how much would it cost to finish the riverwalk?

Funny you ask Lake... I've been trying to research this for about a month comparing previous riverwalk improvements(which is a PIA to find).  I hope to have some hard numbers for when I have my Bay Street Pier Park renderings/vision done.  Keep in mind, Im not an architect/urban planner so I'm kind of learning Illustrator on the fly.

[vicupstate]

AMEN Fieldafm !  

The city should have bought the  property before the Spence's did, then they would have had complete control and could have sold it to a solid (not a novice like Tri-Legacy) developer early in the 2000's. There would be something there now, if that had happened.

Water under the bridge though.  

[JeffreyS]

Considering the bulkhead is already in place, I wonder how much would it cost to finish the riverwalk?

I have walked it and it looks like a 12' x 12' patch of concrete should get you to Metro park.

[dougskiles]

Sometimes you get an unexpected gift that changes your life.

I think this property is one of those gifts quite honestly.  I envision a public pier park, a revamped Hogans Creek/Klutho-Confederate Park Greenway, activated water sport uses with finger piers to mitigate tidal currents along the Hogan Creek basin that will allow kayaking and small sailing(think East Boston Pier Park), and mixed use development along the remainder of the property.

Our riverfront is currently an exercise in wasted potential.  Why can't we polish off this gem?

The potential we have with Hogan's Creek is amazing - and it is a gift.  I had the opportunity to spend some time with Noone that we talked about on another thread.  Here are some photos of our trip:

[letters and numbers]

hey Noone have you seen the hogans creek plan? they have a big print out of it in the spar building on Main st. man I hope it works out and id love to help out anyway I could. I heard it was going to be a very long project. man why couldnt this vision have been in place 5 years ago when there was money!! can you send me your contact info?

[billy]

great photos!
is Hogans Creek plan online?

[thelakelander]

Here is a link:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-nov-hogans-creek-park-master-plan

However, I think the Hogans Creek plan is limited to the portion of the creek that runs north of State Street.  The navigable part of the creek is east of Washington Street.

[Captain Zissou]

Here is a link:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-nov-hogans-creek-park-master-plan

However, I think the Hogans Creek plan is limited to the portion of the creek that runs north of State Street.  The navigable part of the creek is east of Washington Street.

Has there been any progress made since the first sketches were released?  Is this progressing or dying?

[dougskiles]

Zissou - very appropriate question for the origin of this post.

Develop a long-term plan and stick with it!