TECO Line Streetcar

[ChriswUfGator]

Oh that Tampa convention center still gives me hives at the sight of it (bar exam).

And we all know how much you love convention centers...

You know, maybe there's some deep-rooted psychological reason behind my hatred of the convention center proposal, since I endured so much torture inside one. Didn't dawn on me till' now...lol. You've got a good eye.

[Ocklawaha]

They also have some other type of trolley that operates during the day and night. Two different tracks though.

Correction iMarvin, they have a REAL TROLLEY on real trolley (railroad) track and we don't, simple as that. Two tracks? or two rails? (it's hard to balance the train on just one!)  Generally the TECO streetcar or trolley line is one track, but their are passing tracks here and there to allow the cars to get around each other. Did you ride on it? AWESOME.

OCKLAWAHA

[iMarvin]

They also have some other type of trolley that operates during the day and night. Two different tracks though.

Correction iMarvin, they have a REAL TROLLEY on real trolley (railroad) track and we don't, simple as that. Two tracks? or two rails? (it's hard to balance the train on just one!)  Generally the TECO streetcar or trolley line is one track, but their are passing tracks here and there to allow the cars to get around each other. Did you ride on it? AWESOME.

OCKLAWAHA

Sorry, I confused myself and thought that the in town trolley was an actual trolley on a railroad. When I went to the one of the stations I was a rail line so I thought the trolley(not TECO) was also on rail. Guess they shared a station, my mistake... Oh, and yeah I rode the TECO. I just thought it was the in town trolley.

[thelakelander]

Something to keep our eyes on as we plan our own streetcar system:

Board agrees to slash Tampa streetcar budget
By TED JACKOVICS | The Tampa Tribune
Published: June 15, 2011

TAMPA --
Tampa Historic Streetcar Inc. board members agreed today to slash next year's operating budget by 29 percent or $608,000.

To achieve its proposed budget of $1.5 million, streetcar service Mondays through Thursdays will begin at noon rather than 11 a.m. On Fridays and Saturdays, the cars will run every 20 minutes instead of every 15.

Street car staff will be trimmed from 24 positions to 17. The positions will be eliminated either by attrition or reallocating employees to the Hillsborough Area Regional Transit Authority.

The board is scheduled to vote on the budget at its September meeting.

The board also agreed to consider a $1.36 million operating budget for fiscal 2013, trimming 9.8 percent or $148,390 from the fiscal 2012 budget.

The budget reductions primarily are a result of the streetcar system exhausting a $5 million endowment established in 2006.

The money came from a Beneficial Corp. agreement with the city of Tampa to end its contract for service on a "People Mover" between Harbour Island and downtown.

Streetcar ridership from October through May is down 8.3 percent to 265,148.

Officials of HART, which operates the streetcar, attributed the decline in ridership to fewer events in Ybor City, Channelside and the St. Pete Times Forum.

http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-news/2011/jun/15/1/board-agrees-to-slash-tampa-streetcar-budget-ar-237616/

[acme54321]

It seems like Tampas streetcar line is much like our own skyway.  It starts downtown and basially ends downtown (correct me if I'm wrong).  I think this shows that the streetcar needs to start off in one of the core neighborhoods and do into town.  I'd like to see the line start in avondale and be built all the way in to at least the berkman to start.

[JeffreyS]

I am glad I am not one of the businesses who invested in the area with streetcar as one of the factors.  Government is so funny we need more riders let's cut the hours.

[tufsu1]

Government is so funny we need more riders let's cut the hours.

there's always a trade-off in meeting budgets...and for transit, this is often the case...right now systems all over the country are having their budgets trimmed as gas prices and passenger demand rises.

Note...in this case, the streetcar is operated by the local transit agency under an agreement with a non-profit board.....so it isn't really a "government thing".

[thelakelander]

It seems like Tampas streetcar line is much like our own skyway.  It starts downtown and basially ends downtown (correct me if I'm wrong).  I think this shows that the streetcar needs to start off in one of the core neighborhoods and do into town.  I'd like to see the line start in avondale and be built all the way in to at least the berkman to start.

Tampa's streetcar is exactly the opposite of our skyway.  It starts a mile away from downtown in Ybor City, runs through the Channel District and terminates at the convention center, which is a good four block walk through surface parking lots from the south section of downtown Tampa (where the actual building fabric exists).  Earlier this year, they extended the line north four blocks but it still does not truly penetrate downtown Tampa.  Here's a map.

[Doctor_K]

It seems like Tampas streetcar line is much like our own skyway.  It starts downtown and basially ends downtown (correct me if I'm wrong).  I think this shows that the streetcar needs to start off in one of the core neighborhoods and do into town.  I'd like to see the line start in avondale and be built all the way in to at least the berkman to start.

Tampa's streetcar is exactly the opposite of our skyway.  It starts a mile away from downtown in Ybor City, runs through the Channel District and terminates at the convention center, which is a good four block walk through surface parking lots from the south section of downtown Tampa (where the actual building fabric exists).  Earlier this year, they extended the line north four blocks but it still does not truly penetrate downtown Tampa.  Here's a map.

A) I noticed that it says Phase IIa.  Is there a Phase IIb in the works at all that we know of?  I wonder if they shouldn't try to extend it to at least the Performing Arts Center through the downtown core.

B) Am I right that it appears that there is practically no resdiential area served by this?  Ybor is more of a destination than anything, IIRC, and then it goes past more 'stuff to do' and one hotel before dead-ending in the middle of seemingly nowhere near downtown.

[thelakelander]

A). There is a plan to eventually loop the streetcar through downtown and Tampa Heights to connect back with Ybor on the north end.  However, there is no funding or timeline for this to happen (sort of like Jax's plan to extend the skyway down Riverside Ave or to the stadium).

B). Tampa's streetcar is basically a tourist circulator.  It does not serve that everyday downtown commuter or urban core resident.  The only residential along the line is in the form of Transit Oriented & Adjacent Development (TOD and TAD) that has popped up paralleling the streetcar.

[Doctor_K]

B). Tampa's streetcar is basically a tourist circulator.  It does not serve that everyday downtown commuter or urban core resident.  The only residential along the line is in the form of Transit Oriented & Adjacent Development (TOD and TAD) that has popped up paralleling the streetcar.

Would that be along Channelside?

[thelakelander]

There's mixed-use residential TOD in the Channel District and TAD in Ybor.

[acme54321]

It seems like Tampas streetcar line is much like our own skyway.  It starts downtown and basially ends downtown (correct me if I'm wrong).  I think this shows that the streetcar needs to start off in one of the core neighborhoods and do into town.  I'd like to see the line start in avondale and be built all the way in to at least the berkman to start.

Tampa's streetcar is exactly the opposite of our skyway.  It starts a mile away from downtown in Ybor City, runs through the Channel District and terminates at the convention center, which is a good four block walk through surface parking lots from the south section of downtown Tampa (where the actual building fabric exists).  Earlier this year, they extended the line north four blocks but it still does not truly penetrate downtown Tampa.  Here's a map.

Ok, I meant that it was similar to the skyway in that it does not start or end in a neighborhood where people live.  You are right it's to move tourists.  It goes from one entertainment destination to another, not from where a sizable amount of people actually live to the entertainment centers.

[tufsu1]

More trouble for Tampa's streetcar

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/port-authority-pulls-funding-for-downtown-tampa-trolley/1186253

[thelakelander]

None liked the idea of using port-generated revenues for a service that has little, if anything, to do with the shipping business. But Mayor Bob Buckhorn and others argued the community can't let the trolley fail.

"Its endowment has been drained; it's been poorly run," he said. "But we've put tens of millions of dollars into it. I have to do everything I can to make it succeed. It serves the greater good."

If I'm the port, I'd cut giving a poorly operated and run service free money annual too, especially when it doesn't promote my core mission, which is to ship goods in and out of Tampa.  As for Jax, here is the lesson I'd take from Tampa's experience:

1. We have a poorly operated mass transit system (buses and skyway) that needs to be completely scaled down and revamped.  Consider letting the gas tax expire to force needed change, restructuring and public discourse.

2. For a streetcar O&M, cut your costs by providing "no-frills" service.  Btw, this should be done with BRT, the skyway and local buses as well.

3. For a streetcar's route, make sure you design a system (no matter how large or small) that appeals to all segments of society and a diversified ridership base.  Part of Tampa's struggles is that's basically a tourist train and unfortunately, Tampa isn't Disney.

4. For ridership purposes, run it as a transit spine.  If you're going to invest in fixed transit, why in the world would you not integrate it into your existing transit network and run it as a spine?  Just because its a streetcar doesn't mean it has to operate as a slow moving tourist circulator, forcing the continued operation of bus service in the same area.

5. Also, for O&M, consider volunteer service to cut costs.  Dallas seems to have a decent model in place worth studying.