JTA Bumps Vatican Says Monaco is Next

[Ocklawaha]

It will be a sad day in Heaven when JTA ultimately trumps Christianity.

Well its official folks the massive mile long "JRTC" project with the addition of the current lot, and Skyway facility adds up to around 15,000,000 square feet or a little over 1/2 square mile of our city. The Vatican City is only .2 square miles and Monaco at .7 is too close to call.

Could it be that the plan that Steve Arrington and company says won't change is thus larger then 2 European Countries?  Great job fellows, a intermodal station larger then two countries!  This is a plan they call centralized or one-stop transit, though it more properly looks like spaghetti thrown at a sheet of paper.

Come on boys, lets compact the "JRTC" (more properly called THE JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL...Damn people read the inscription over those 14 giant sandstone columns).

Monaco by the way is about 3,000 feet by 20,000 feet in length... Ici nous venir.


OCKLAWAHA

[dougskiles]

Well, unfortunately the precedent seemed to be set with the courthouse.  Land downtown is so cheap that vertical construction just isn't worth the cost.  Or so it would appear.

I can't remember if it was you, Ock, or Stephen that I was talking to yesterday about why do we really need a board governing transportation in our city?  Could it not be handled as a department of the mayor's office?  I haven't done any research about the pros and cons of this, but I imagine that you and others have and would like to know your thoughts.

[tufsu1]

remember that JTA is a state-enacted body....so it would require an act of the Legislature to turn its functions over to the City (or some other entity).

[Ocklawaha]

remember that JTA is a state-enacted body....so it would require an act of the Legislature to turn its functions over to the City (or some other entity).

Just like JAA couldn't be split from JPA?  TU you KNOW that mass transit and highway builders go together about like oil and water...  As long as Florida has State run local transit, and "authorities" that build or promote highways, we'll all be singing "The streets are fields that never die!" This is how a state like Florida has dozens of BRT "We'll save the day," projects!

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Ashes to ashes...   

Dust to dust...

Asphalt to asphalt...

WELCOME TO FLORIDA, The hard surfaced - gas guzzling - fuel poor - air polluting - water poisoned - SUNSHINE STATE!

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

to my knowledge, JAA and JPA are locally designated authorities....JTA is a state-designated authority....apples and oranges.

As to Stephen's point, why would the City try and set up a department to do the same things JTA is charged with....and don't you think JTA and/or the Legislature would have something to say about it?

[fsujax]

speaking of JTA seems like someone asked for money to continue commuter rail efforts here locally. The question is will Nelson stick to his request?

From the TU

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/matt-dixon/2010-12-15/dems-spending-plan-includes-6-million-jacksonville

[ChriswUfGator]

As to Stephen's point, why would the City try and set up a department to do the same things JTA is charged with

What else would you do when you have a bunch of incompetent people constantly screwing things up and there is no other way to get rid of them?

[Ocklawaha]

to my knowledge, JAA and JPA are locally designated authorities....JTA is a state-designated authority....apples and oranges.

As to Stephen's point, why would the City try and set up a department to do the same things JTA is charged with....and don't you think JTA and/or the Legislature would have something to say about it?

DAMN TU! READ THE POSTS! Though you MIGHT want to dodge the subject if your employer has contracts consulting for paving the last mile of Florida...  Hummm?  OIL AND WATER!

Just like JAA couldn't be split from JPA?  TU you KNOW that mass transit and highway builders go together about like oil and water...  As long as Florida has State run local transit, and "authorities" that build or promote highways, we'll all be singing "The streets are fields that never die!" This is how a state like Florida has dozens of BRT "We'll save the day," projects!

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

Ok...I'm getting really annoyed with folks that tink I can't have my own personal opinion just because of contracts my firm has....for example, we're involved in nuclear power....doesn't mean I agree with it.

In fact, I've risked quite a bit with my job in making some of the posts I have on this site...not everyone knows who I am, but enough do.

As far as highway and transit builders not going together....I disagree....some of the biggst road building contractors in Florida are also interested in building rail lines....same thing with the engineering/design firms.

[tufsu1]

I have never once made a connection between his own opinions and the company he works for....in fact, I have no idea what he does for a living.

[Ocklawaha]

"To PACIFIC ELECTRIC RAILWAY, with love.... GENERAL MOTORS."

TU it is pretty common knowledge what caused the Streetcar Holocaust...

In 1946 E. Quinby alerted transportation officials across the county to what he called "A careful, deliberately planned campaign to swindle you out of your most important and valuable public utilities, your Electric Railway System". General Motors and others were subsequently convicted in 1949 of conspiring to monopolize the sale of buses and related products via a complex network of linked holding companies including National City Lines and Pacific City Lines. They were also indicted, but acquitted of conspiring to monopolize the ownership of these companies. In the period from 1936 and 1950 they had been involved in the conversion of over 100 electric surface-traction systems that were converted to bus systems in 45 cities including Baltimore, Los Angeles (mainly the "Yellow Cars"), New York City, Oakland and San Diego.

The story has been explored many times in print, film and other media, notably in Who Framed Roger Rabbit (film), Taken for a Ride (documentary), and The End of Suburbia (documentary film).

The yearly battle for transit funding in Washington D.C. is another arena where the highway lobby has crashed the party. Certainly some road builders would like a piece of building a railroad grade or supplying concrete ties, etc... That doesn't take away from the fact that they are FIRST AND FOREMOST HIGHWAY PEOPLE. They contribute to associations and lobbyist to keep the fire burning under Congress and on a smaller field they fund CUTR and/or several dozen more "think tanks" of FREEWAY THOUGHT.

Maybe this will help...ENJOY!

http://www.youtube.com/v/XOXDrAk4tpc?fs=1&hl=en_US

You can call a skunk a rabbit if you want too TU, and you can tell me it can fly, but your not going to convince many that the highway side of transportation has the best interests of transit and rail at its heart. IT DOESN'T.


OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

never said it did Ock....and I know very well just how powerful the road-building lobby is....

but keep in mind that much of that power comes from the construction contractors, not the engineering/design firms.

and btw....companies like CSX have plenty of lobbying power too....and they haven't been too enthused about passenger rail either.

[Ocklawaha]

It would appear that JAA and JPA are STATE agencies... Just one more reason for local rule?
So it looks like ANY candidate for mayor could and should put JTA directly in their gun sights.

As TUFSU has stated, HIGHWAYS and MASS TRANSIT have been as far apart as the Atlantic and Pacific. This is what prompts me to making smart ass comments about engineers-consultants-planners and the lot (HEY and I ARE ONE!) but its hard to maintain a personal objective opinion when a government body has just padded your pocket with a million dollar contract. It is also at the root of many of Florida's growing transportation problems. When a major state university (USF) offers a transportation program and at the same time maintains the states official transportation think tank called the Center for Urban Transportation Research - supported with your state and federal tax dollars... and "invited industry members."



OCKLAWAHA

CUTR conducts $8 million in research annually for a variety of public and private sector sponsors in Florida and the United States, including the Florida Legislature, the Florida Transportation Commission, and state and local governments, agencies, and organizations. Areas of research include public transportation, transportation planning, intelligent transportation systems (ITS), transportation demand management (TDM), transportation economics and finance, geographic information systems, access management, alternative fuels, and transportation safety, among others.

CUTR houses the National Center for Transit Research, designated by the U.S. Congress in 1991 and reaffirmed in 1998 and in 2002, and the National Bus Rapid Transit Institute, sponsored by the Federal Transit Administration and in partnership with the University of California-Berkeley. Through NCTR and NBRTI, CUTR conducts research projects in rapidly growing urban areas to develop innovative, pragmatic approaches that will enable public transportation to better meet the evolving needs of U.S. citizens.

The Jacksonville Port Authority replaced the city's Department of Docks and Terminals[1] and was created in 1963 by Florida's Legislature to progress, preserve and promote the city's port facilities.[2] The Port Authority was chartered by the state, and intended to be a government entity that would operate like a business; however, it received 1.5 mils of property tax authority that generated nearly half a million dollars during 1963 (equivilent to $30 million in 2003).[1] Jacksonville airports were under the control of the Port Authority since its' inception, but in May 2001, the Florida State Legislature approved the restructuring of the Jacksonville Port Authority into two separate entities (City J-Bill-1104); the Jacksonville Aviation Authority (JAA) and the Jacksonville Seaport Authority effective October 1, 2001 [3]. In 2003, the act was amended to reinstate the name Jacksonville Port Authority instead of Seaport.

JAXPORT has an unpaid, appointed seven-member Board of Directors which provides policy guidance for the Authority. Four Board members are appointed by the Mayor of Jacksonville and three members are appointed by the Governor of Florida. Board members serve four-year terms and may be appointed to one additional term.

Board members meet once per month, and meetings are open to the public.

[tufsu1]

ok, so I was incorrect about the boards beig locally designated.

That said, the following quote from above....

"in May 2001, the Florida State Legislature approved the restructuring of the Jacksonville Port Authority into two separate entities"

....is consistent with my statement that any changes to JTA responsibilities would need to come from the Legislature.