Baptist Medical Center Seeks Signage Exception

[CS Foltz]

What ever happened to just plain old common sense? I don't have a problem with anyone advertising for whatever, but Code appears to have a different take on things! This is due to disconnected government ,not really the taxpaying public! I could point out the bus's with their advertising platered all over...........yeah we get lots of money from that........something like 3% of JTA's revenue stream, but nothing is said about that! Gotta have advertisments on any "Bus Stop" to pay for the silly things and since there are only 10% with add's that only leaves the other 1800 stops with just a sign post............good job JTA.....did you enjoy your Christmas Bonus's? If this is government for the people, time to round file them all and start over!

[ChriswUfGator]

Good point, CS I hadn't thought about that...

Why doesn't JTA's advertising-supported bus shelter proposal violate the signage ordinance?

Why can't a merchant put up a sign or a sandwich board, but JTA can put up bus shelters plastered with advertising from stem to stern in the same location? Anybody?

[Charles Hunter]

JTA's proposed shelters do violate the sign ordinance; that is why JTA fought for - and got - an exception, and Brinton fought against it.

[urbaknight]

I guess in lue of fancy neon signs that all cities have, the assholes at Clear channel has decided to have 6 minuet commercial breaks. 

I don't know about all of you but, I'd rather get my propaganda by looking at signs on buildings and/or in front of shops, not to be bombarded by ads on tv.

At least with signs, we have no real interruptions or inconvenience. We have a choice not to be interrupted with the ad, we can just keep on going on with our lives, unlike tv, where we have to sit through that crap!

[Captain Zissou]

Ralph W, I found this hilarious comment from one of your linked articles:

"Chip Fu wrote:What's up with all the Debbie Downer comments? Jeez. You all need to find some joy in your lives. The screens will be fun and make downtown more lively. This is another small move of many that is helping to revitalize downtown and change Denver from the asphalt parking lot wasteland of the 1980's that was a ghost town at 5 PM on Friday into something more bright and interesting."

I don't think there could be a better, more direct parallel to the Jacksonville of the 80s and 90s (and today??).

On the other hand, many of the other comments sound like what Jacksonville residents must have sounded like back when the sign ordinance was passed. I guess it isn't just Jacksonville.

In a semi-related note.  When Denver was redoing their sports complexes in the 90's, they gave small businesses grants to develop in their downtown so that patrons of the complex would have reasons to be and stay downtown outside of games.  An entrepreneur used the grant to open a microbrewery (Great Divide Brewing Company) in the heart of downtown Denver.  That brewery now produces 20,000 barrels a year (more than 10 times the capacity of Bold City) and is internationally known and respected company.  Imagine if we had done that during the BJP, we'd have far more than the revolving door building next to the Arena that can't keep a tenant.  That's just the difference between progressive leadership and....Jacksonville 'leadership'.

I was just in Denver last week and spoke to an employee of the brewery, who said the only reason they exist was that grant.  Imagine how many great businesses could be in DT Jax if they had an opportunity like that.

[Bativac]

JTA's proposed shelters do violate the sign ordinance; that is why JTA fought for - and got - an exception, and Brinton fought against it.

I thought about this as I sat in the rain this weekend at the "picturesque" corner of Atlantic and University Boulevards. Two people sat on a bench, getting soaked, waiting for the bus. Surrounding them were crooked utility poles pockmarked with nails and old staples; overgrown sidewalks strewn with litter; and pickup trucks blasting some kind of angry growling music as if trying to compete with the engines of nearby motorcycles for "most aggressive loud noise."

I thought, "why would anyone want to spoil the native beauty of all this with a BUS SHELTER that included ADVERTISEMENTS? For BUSINESSES?!"

[Bativac]

In a semi-related note.  When Denver was redoing their sports complexes in the 90's, they gave small businesses grants to develop in their downtown so that patrons of the complex would have reasons to be and stay downtown outside of games.  An entrepreneur used the grant to open a microbrewery (Great Divide Brewing Company) in the heart of downtown Denver.  That brewery now produces 20,000 barrels a year (more than 10 times the capacity of Bold City) and is internationally known and respected company.  Imagine if we had done that during the BJP, we'd have far more than the revolving door building next to the Arena that can't keep a tenant.  That's just the difference between progressive leadership and....Jacksonville 'leadership'.

Wait -- you mean small business grants? To encourage creative-minded entrepeneurs to locate in Downtown, instead of out in the suburbs? Perish the thought!!! Don't you think that money is better spent providing incentives for builders to construct half-finished condo towers or perhaps half-finished seafood restaurants.

I've said this before and I'll keep saying it: the city would do wonders if it would subsidize just the rent and utilities of a few small businesses for the first 6 months of their operation. Or, provide assistance with opening costs. Small grants of $5 to $10k, or even loans to be repaid after the first year. Nothing more than that. This thing of putting all the eggs into one basket isn't working. Pass some of those eggs out to us would-be entrepeneurs.

Some of us are trying to get something going business-wise and aren't even considering Jacksonville as an option. A little help getting started would sweeten the pot.

[Overstreet]

...........My problem with the sign ordinance is the unequal treatment. If you're some mega-Corp, you can do whatever you want. 40 foot high lighted letters? No problem! Joe Schmo wants to put a sandwich board out on the sidewalk to attract one of the pathetically few people Downtown? $200 fine............

The problem is Joe Schmo wants to put out a temporary sign and "A-Frame" sign specifically mentioned in the ordinance.  

http://www.coj.net/Departments/Planning+and+Development/Building+Inspection/Sign+Laws.htm#11


In the burbs the small businesses get around this by hiring a sign holdern(person) to hold the sign. Seems like in the 30s and 40s sandwich boards used to be worn by "sign holders". They's stand in-between the boards and walk the streets or stand outside the business.

[simms3]

Here is a very interesting/telling photo thread that details Denver's downtown signs in their LoDo District.

Urban Denver - 16th Street Mall Signs

Apparently there is a law requiring 3-dimensional signs for businesses in that area.  It looks very good.

[urbanlibertarian]

Nice link, simms3.  Can we all agree that the signage shown in those photos are NOT visual pollution?

[Keith-N-Jax]

The answer is to vote out the current leadership.

I don't think enough people in this city actually care about downtown or don't even know we have one.

[Dog Walker]

"Downtown? Downtown?  You mean the St. John's Town Center, right?"

[fsujax]

nice signs...I think the Town Center actually has signage like that! maybe one day DT Jax will too!

[hightowerlover]

here's your sign.

[iMarvin]

here's your sign.