Are we losing our rights in the name of safety?

[vicupstate]

For a different take on all this...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-11-22/tsa-body-scan-pat-down-policy-sparks-media-frenzy/2/

[cityimrov]

In all reality, what happens to the TSA will be determined by the next terror attack.  If people act in a calm, rational way and not point fingers everywhere, then the TSA role is going to be smaller.  If people blame the government for not doing everything they can to stop it, the TSA will expand or it's ugly stepchild will appear making life miserable.  

Right now, if TSA reduces ANY screening method, the terrorist will more likely attack - not really because there is less security but they know if they attack when TSA is being shrunk, there's a chance the people will panic.  This will make them smile since they have to do very little work to get the results they want.  The government with the request of the people will do it for them.

At work, people call this "Cover Your Ass".  Whenever people start doing that, nothing useful get's done since everyone is so worried about protecting themselves from the "boss". 

What happens next is completely up to us!   If we turn into the finger pointing, blame government "why didn't you do everything you could to stop it?" crowd, the TSA won't go away anytime soon.  If we don't turn into that, TSA has a chance of being gone.  

[BridgeTroll]

Security at Isreal's Ben Gurion Airport

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gurion_International_Airport#Security_procedures

Security procedures

All cars, taxis, buses and trucks go through a preliminary security checkpoint before entering the airport compound. Armed guards spot-check the vehicles by looking into cars, taxis and boarding buses, exchanging a few words with the driver and passengers. Armed security personnel stationed at the terminal entrances keep a close watch on those who enter the buildings. If someone arouses their suspicion or looks nervous, they may strike up a conversation to further assess the person's intent. Plainclothes armed personnel patrol the area outside the building, and hidden surveillance cameras operate at all times.[39]Inside the building, both uniformed and plainclothes security officers are on constant patrol. Departing passengers are personally questioned by security agents even before arriving at the check-in desk. This interview can last as little as a minute, or as long as an hour if a passenger is selected for additional screening. Luggage and body searches may be conducted. After the search, bags are placed through an X-ray machine before passengers proceed to the check-in counters. Occasionally, if security have assessed a person as a low risk, they will pass them straight through to the check-in desks, bypassing the main x-ray machines.

Until August 2007 there was a system of color codes on checked luggage but the practice was discontinued after complaints of discrimination.[40]

[ChriswUfGator]

Security at Isreal's Ben Gurion Airport

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gurion_International_Airport#Security_procedures

Security procedures

All cars, taxis, buses and trucks go through a preliminary security checkpoint before entering the airport compound. Armed guards spot-check the vehicles by looking into cars, taxis and boarding buses, exchanging a few words with the driver and passengers. Armed security personnel stationed at the terminal entrances keep a close watch on those who enter the buildings. If someone arouses their suspicion or looks nervous, they may strike up a conversation to further assess the person's intent. Plainclothes armed personnel patrol the area outside the building, and hidden surveillance cameras operate at all times.[39]Inside the building, both uniformed and plainclothes security officers are on constant patrol. Departing passengers are personally questioned by security agents even before arriving at the check-in desk. This interview can last as little as a minute, or as long as an hour if a passenger is selected for additional screening. Luggage and body searches may be conducted. After the search, bags are placed through an X-ray machine before passengers proceed to the check-in counters. Occasionally, if security have assessed a person as a low risk, they will pass them straight through to the check-in desks, bypassing the main x-ray machines.

Until August 2007 there was a system of color codes on checked luggage but the practice was discontinued after complaints of discrimination.[40]

All of that also takes place at US airports. Notably, I see no mention of nude searches and rubbing people's crotches. Most people sail through after having their low risk level accurately assessed, instead of this "hassle everyone" approach. Frankly, we should subcontract security out to the Israelis. Despite being the most targeted country, they don't have the issues we have with airline-based terror attacks, and it's because of their national intelligence services, which actually use the information available to them, and their intelligent secutiy protocols.

[uptowngirl]

+1000 Chris. I doubt they would stand for the molestation of children and women if they protested color coding of their luggage......

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

'Accurately assessing' risk levels is the same as 'profiling', racial or otherwise; and when mentioned in the states, causes nearly as much uproar as grabbing people's crotches.

[ChriswUfGator]

'Accurately assessing' risk levels is the same as 'profiling', racial or otherwise; and when mentioned in the states, causes nearly as much uproar as grabbing people's crotches.

Since when are terrorists a protected class?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Just a theory...

White Male, 6'2", Typical Business Class looking fellow is boarding a plane in Israel.  One of their 'profilers' asks a few introductory questions, feels the need to further their inquiry in a back room, and after a few hours pass, let's said man go.  Will this make the front page of Israel Today?  No.  Will Rev. So-and-So and Representative Horsegobble and the ACLU come crashing down on that airport with the fury of the Apocolypse?  No.  It's just another routine Q&A with someone who 'appeared' out of place.

If the same happened here, all of those outlandish things could very likely happen.

Not saying that it isn't a better way of doing things, because it is if done correctly, but we, as a country, have kinda tied our hands behind our backs on this one.

[KenFSU]

It all boils down to one simple question for me:

What kind of man is such a terrified wimp that he allows a government employee to see his wife undressed, or to place their hands on her vagina and breasts?

What kind of mother is so petrified by overblown "terror" threats that she allows the government to place their hands on her child?

Is this really how sniveling and cowardly we have become as a nation?

Mindlessly submitting to the most personal of physical invasions without a single second thought about it?

It's embarrassing.

[JeffreyS]

Your characterization of the TSA employees as a bunch of Perverts getting off Looking at anonymous pictures of passengers and gleefully copping feels is way off base.  I know a manager at the Jacksonville TSA and none of the employees wants to work the pat down line.  The pat downs are not molestations and you are free to not have them.

BTW I have come to believe that most of the enhanced security we have invested in is a big waste of money. The best upgrades we have made are secure cockpits and passengers who will resist.

[ChriswUfGator]

Your characterization of the TSA employees as a bunch of Perverts getting off Looking at anonymous pictures of passengers and gleefully copping feels is way off base.  I know a manager at the Jacksonville TSA and none of the employees wants to work the pat down line.  The pat downs are not molestations and you are free to not have them.

BTW I have come to believe that most of the enhanced security we have invested in is a big waste of money. The best upgrades we have made are secure cockpits and passengers who will resist.

He's not charachterizing the TSA employees as perverts, he's criticizing the whole approach. And rightly so.

I don't think they want to grab my balls anymore than I want them grabbed. The process is the problem.

[Shwaz]

It all boils down to one simple question for me:

What kind of man is such a terrified wimp that he allows a government employee to see his wife undressed, or to place their hands on her vagina and breasts?

What kind of mother is so petrified by overblown "terror" threats that she allows the government to place their hands on her child?

Is this really how sniveling and cowardly we have become as a nation?

Mindlessly submitting to the most personal of physical invasions without a single second thought about it?

It's embarrassing.

Swingers? Cuckolds?

[BridgeTroll]

Your characterization of the TSA employees as a bunch of Perverts getting off Looking at anonymous pictures of passengers and gleefully copping feels is way off base.  I know a manager at the Jacksonville TSA and none of the employees wants to work the pat down line.  The pat downs are not molestations and you are free to not have them.

BTW I have come to believe that most of the enhanced security we have invested in is a big waste of money. The best upgrades we have made are secure cockpits and passengers who will resist.

I agree Jefferey.  Constantly referring to "crotch grabbing" "breast fondling", "ball groping/grabbing," "nude photos", "vagina touching" and all the other hysterical terms used for an full body pat down certainly do not add any gravitas to their concerns.  The poor bastards who now have to perform these checks because someone is opposed to the scan certainly do not relish the scorn and disdain being heaped upon them.  They are everyday folks... happy to have a job... even if they have to deal with people who are upset with the "process".

In addition... I find the people who may be planning "protest searches" on the busiest travel day of the year designed to gum up the system extremely selfish.  

[Dog Walker]

According to the news today air travel is proceeding smoothly and normally for such a busy day.  The "Opt Out Day" protest doesn't seem to be having any impact.

[BridgeTroll]

That is good news...