Annie Lytle School Purchased

[Timkin]

Is Timkin aware of this??  I figured he'd be blowing this thread up.  This sounds like bad news.

I'm sure he is by now. I've emailed him.

I was aware, but thank you , Heather for keeping me in the know   U rock !!!

[duvaldude08]

MAn this is sad and pure Khasos. We should have never let this building go into such despiar. And the fact nobodys want to anything into it is kind of sad. I almost to point of saying, "tear it down". That seems like the most logical thing right being that NO ONE wants to do anything to the property. It is such a beautiful structure and would love to see in renovated. However, Im starting to think its NEVER going to happen.

[vicupstate]

While I understand duvaldude08's sentiment, I think it is best that even if saving the building is impossible, demolition is not the best answer. 

The best answer would be to let the building deteriorate day by day, little by little.  That way it will serve as an icon of just what kind of city Jacksonville has become, or maybe, always has been.

[fieldafm]

The group that acquired the building via the tax lien sale is not interested in rehabbing it... they are property flippers.
Seeing as though Milne's group replatted the parcel, interested buyers would basically be held hostage by him with any plans they have with the building... it dissolves him from the costly building liability and makes his potential profit much greater.  Shrewd move.  The old girl is going to need a special kind of buyer/developer.

The building still has great potential, IMO

[Timkin]

At this point , I would settle for a 3 wall facade-ectomy of the School.. That way, the most important architectural features of the School are preserved... incorporate this into a new structure....

In my heart, I do not believe this will be the outcome.


It boils down to economics... Someone would have to acquire the building and the land from , now, 2 different entities.  My bet is the purchase price would be at least 2 million just to do that.  Then the renovation costs...10 million conservatively.  Then what to do with the building... something has to recoup these enormous costs.   When you look around and see so much vacant commercial property, and more closing everyday, its pretty disheartening.

As to the cleanup effort, Im simply not physically able to do it alone anymore.  And that is disheartening.

Until it falls, I remain with hope that an answer will come forth.. I humbly suggest (only) to each and every one of you who wish to see it spared, to  contact the owner..contact your council people. At least lets get some more time on its side, as the group from Springfield are doing so well with the historic structures there

[Victor711]

This is really not good.. I was not expecting this to ever come, but in a world like this, things are inevitable. I hope a miracle comes around, god please bring one. I love this school very much, it was the first thing to catch me when I moved to Jacksonville 6 years ago. Everything about the school is just amazing. The architecture most of all. The inside, pretty quiet from the ugly and monstrous highway in front of it.

THIS CITY HAS MONEY!! But choose to spend it on pointless things that we do NOT need!! Streets that need no repair? Sidewalks with a small hole? Parks with nothing wrong with them? Or how about AN OVER BUDGET COURTHOUSE?!?! That will forever look disgusting to me.

[Timkin]

MAn this is sad and pure Khasos. We should have never let this building go into such despiar. And the fact nobodys want to anything into it is kind of sad. I almost to point of saying, "tear it down". That seems like the most logical thing right being that NO ONE wants to do anything to the property. It is such a beautiful structure and would love to see in renovated. However, Im starting to think its NEVER going to happen.

Duvaldude ..... "WE"  did not let this building go into such disrepair. "WE" never owned the building.  It belonged to DCSB until the late 70s ...According to Doug Milne, The building was in need of roof replacement at the time of acquisition. Seems to me it would have been A HELL OF ALOT less expensive to maintain it, by doing the repairs then..and boarding more securely than was done so as to preserve the building..much like we see many vacant automobile dealerships around town ,done.  For whatever reason, he/the Ida Stevens Foundation./Foundation Holdings IV  NEVER  (that I can identify on the building) put one dime of money towards any reasonable building maintenance ...IE  Roof to keep water out. That was key...What we look at today is a domino effect of not putting the money into keeping the building up. over time it would have been significantly less...Today "WE" face a monumental amount of money to save it.   Vandals have done their share of damage to the building....but Vandals are not the reason the Auditorium roof became part of the Auditorium Floor in 2000. and the decay continues.  Where I do see that Mr Milne /Foundation Holdings probably spent significant money was in the continual and in vain task of securing the building.....That very point brings us to where we stand with it now.. NOW that it has a different owner, IMO even though code enforcement "looked the other way" for decades, the "New" owner will pay the piper...

 I am certain that if Tarpon knew they were buying a School Building that was structurally ,fairly sound, but in need of Millions in repairs and it was completely landlocked, they probably would have passed on the purchase...but the price was too attractive.....or so they thought ,until they had all of the details.

To me , one of two possibilites now face them:  A:  They will have no choice but to bring the building into compliance...whatever compliance means.  Because bringing it into compliance would help dramaticly with its ability to market, this is the most hopeful Avenue.

OR   B:  They will be forced to demolish it.  I have no idea what that would cost , but am fairly certain , it would cost far less than to bring the building into compliance.  DW is correct.. The Land Value below the building probably is not greater than the cost of demo and its certainly not greater than  the cost of rehab...  Tarpon has probably had many more gains than losses in their purchases... This one , I think will be a loss for them.

 If I had to spend the time I have on the School over again, knowing what I now know, I still would have done it... It is a beautiful , incredible building.  Its just unfortunate that the almighty dollar prevails and economics are cost-prohibitive as far as I can tell, in this instance.

Im sure sooner than later,  Time will tell.  and whatever the outcome, I am at peace with it.

[Noone]

I'm sure sooner than later,  Time will tell.  and whatever the outcome, I am at peace with it.

C'Mon Man!!!!!!!   JACKSONVILLE

Timkin, I feel for you man. I'll always remember the 1000's of posts that you had on Jaxoutloud on Annie Lytle. I was close to making a cleanup to just meet you and appreciate your efforts on a real piece of history.

This legal maneuver to land lock the building just cries out that a new law needs to be enacted called the "Let me buy a strip of land around a building whether its a foot circumference or 20' then be forever forgiven when the new people buy it in foreclosure and will now pay me super big bucks for all the fines and taxes that I didn't have to pay." C'mon Man!

How to invest in Jacksonville's Future.

This should highlight to everyone the magnitude Of Shipyards/Landmar and the immediate reason why the 680' Promised Downtown Public Pier needs to be separate. The Public Trust has been destroyed in this community.

Timkin, whatever the outcome you should be at peace. Disappointed yes. Then again its still standing. It hasn't been blown up. 

[CS Foltz]

I feel you pain Tim! Something that occured to my was .....just how the property was basically split up? This smacks of something that someone like Paul Harden would be involved in. Maybe not since he is not cheap but that property had to have been rezoned for this to take place? Not really sure how one could do something like that without a zoning change being approved by the Zoning Commision!

[vicupstate]

Zoning would not be a factor in whatever was done from a platting/legal aspect.  The USE of the property has not changed.  I am wondering how a tract of land can be platted that is land-locked.  Although, a building can be sold without the land underneath being sold (ie The Landing).  That wasn't the case here though, the land underneath did convey with the building, yet the parcel is landlocked? 

Any attorneys with answers on that?

[duvaldude08]

MAn this is sad and pure Khasos. We should have never let this building go into such despiar. And the fact nobodys want to anything into it is kind of sad. I almost to point of saying, "tear it down". That seems like the most logical thing right being that NO ONE wants to do anything to the property. It is such a beautiful structure and would love to see in renovated. However, Im starting to think its NEVER going to happen.

Duvaldude ..... "WE"  did not let this building go into such disrepair. "WE" never owned the building.  It belonged to DCSB until the late 70s ...According to Doug Milne, The building was in need of roof replacement at the time of acquisition. Seems to me it would have been A HELL OF ALOT less expensive to maintain it, by doing the repairs then..and boarding more securely than was done so as to preserve the building..much like we see many vacant automobile dealerships around town ,done.  For whatever reason, he/the Ida Stevens Foundation./Foundation Holdings IV  NEVER  (that I can identify on the building) put one dime of money towards any reasonable building maintenance ...IE  Roof to keep water out. That was key...What we look at today is a domino effect of not putting the money into keeping the building up. over time it would have been significantly less...Today "WE" face a monumental amount of money to save it.   Vandals have done their share of damage to the building....but Vandals are not the reason the Auditorium roof became part of the Auditorium Floor in 2000. and the decay continues.  Where I do see that Mr Milne /Foundation Holdings probably spent significant money was in the continual and in vain task of securing the building.....That very point brings us to where we stand with it now.. NOW that it has a different owner, IMO even though code enforcement "looked the other way" for decades, the "New" owner will pay the piper...

 I am certain that if Tarpon knew they were buying a School Building that was structurally ,fairly sound, but in need of Millions in repairs and it was completely landlocked, they probably would have passed on the purchase...but the price was too attractive.....or so they thought ,until they had all of the details.

To me , one of two possibilites now face them:  A:  They will have no choice but to bring the building into compliance...whatever compliance means.  Because bringing it into compliance would help dramaticly with its ability to market, this is the most hopeful Avenue.

OR   B:  They will be forced to demolish it.  I have no idea what that would cost , but am fairly certain , it would cost far less than to bring the building into compliance.  DW is correct.. The Land Value below the building probably is not greater than the cost of demo and its certainly not greater than  the cost of rehab...  Tarpon has probably had many more gains than losses in their purchases... This one , I think will be a loss for them.

 If I had to spend the time I have on the School over again, knowing what I now know, I still would have done it... It is a beautiful , incredible building.  Its just unfortunate that the almighty dollar prevails and economics are cost-prohibitive as far as I can tell, in this instance.

Im sure sooner than later,  Time will tell.  and whatever the outcome, I am at peace with it.

You pretty much said the same thing I said in different terms. They are either going to do something with it (what ever something is) or demolish it.

[Cliffs_Daughter]

Here's a clearer look at the property lines.

[billy]

Maybe they platted it like a townhouse development, with a separate designation for the building footprint and the "open" area.

[Noone]

This is one for the property appraisers office. two separate tax bills. Two separate stormwater bills. When was it done?

[lowlyplanner]

I think that the split violates Section 654 of the City's ordinance code (the subdivision code).  It starts out:

"No land shall be subdivided nor a building or structure or a part thereof constructed in an area that is subdivided after the effective date of this Chapter, unless the subdivision conforms to the provisions of this Chapter." (654.104)

It goes on to say that

"The subdivision shall provide each lot with satisfactory and permanent access to a public street or approved private street." and also "The lot size, width, depth, shape and orientation and the minimum building setback lines shall be appropriate for the location of the subdivision and for the type of development and use contemplated. Lot arrangement and design shall be such that all lots will provide satisfactory and desirable building sites." (654.126)

Further, "No plat or plan of a subdivision of land shall be recorded by the Clerk of the Circuit Court until the plat has received final approval in accordance with this Chapter." and "No person or his agent owning land within a proposed subdivision shall transfer or sell or agree to sell a lot or parcel of land located within a subdivision by reference to, by exhibition or by any other use of a plat of the subdivision before the plat has been approved by ordinance and has been recorded, unless exempted by this Chapter." (654.139)

Violation "shall constitute a class C offense and, in addition, the offender shall pay all costs and expenses involved in the case. Each day the violation continues or recurs shall be considered a separate offense."

I really think that the General Counsel's office ought to be asked whether this was a subdivision of land as defined by the Code. 

You can search the code here:  http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=12174&stateId=9&stateName=Florida
Type "654" into the "Search" box and it will bring up the ordinance.