Rebuild Monroe Street, Why Bother?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/890994659_mj3fW-M.jpg)
Here are five reasons why Monroe Street should not be reconstructed in front of the new Duval County Courthouse.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-oct-rebuild-monroe-street-why-bother
I agree, there is no need to build the road.
Agree as well. The St Louis photo above is a great example of what to do.
Trees, trees, trees, and more trees! Maby some setaside on the corners for dining and retail structures...
Lake...could you remind me why in the HELL you aren't running for office?
How about tennis and basketball courts mixed in there? It would be a nice ammenity for the people who live downtown. Make it accesable via keycards only with option to get a day pass for visitors or people who want to enjoy them on their lunch hour..
Is rebuilding Monroe the current plan? Is there some debate at city hall going on about what to do with the space?
I certainly like the options presented here.
Rebuilding Monroe was assumed to be a part of the plan but it's not budgeted. Now that the courthouse footprint has changed from the original configuration, it's being debated if rebuilding Monroe is necessary or not.
Quote from: kells904 on October 08, 2010, 09:13:44 AM
Lake...could you remind me why in the HELL you aren't running for office?
No desire. I don't think Jax is really ready for me or that I'm ready for the politics.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 08, 2010, 10:16:34 AM
Quote from: kells904 on October 08, 2010, 09:13:44 AM
Lake...could you remind me why in the HELL you aren't running for office?
No desire. I don't think Jax is really ready for me or that I'm ready for the politics.
Chris, Stephen, Steve, and Lunican should run for office, then appoint Ennis and Bob to key positions within JTA and/or their administration. Watch the sh*t get done after that!!
I think it would also be unsafe to have a traffic lane pass that close to a courthouse.
if they create a great pedestrian space the courthouse might make up for that giant campus .
I'm sure the building is hardened, but after Kansas City and the federal building I thought the standard was to leave a "blast zone" between active streets and target buildings like courthouses.
Quote from: stephendare on October 08, 2010, 10:29:34 AM
Thanks Dr. K.
We would be a great team, and at least provide a lot of satisfaction for the voters. If only because there would actually be some accountability back into the process.
Can you imagine JTA or JEA having to answer to a special City Council Committee with the six of us on the panel?
I wouldn't endorse it if I didn't believe in it. Conversing with you here and once or twice in person has convinced me.
Besides, no other city could claim to have a cunning linguist for Mayor.
I'll even haul out the old campaign slogan for ya...
"
Dare to be Bold!
Dare to be Great!
Dare to make a difference!"
It's so full of double entendres that it makes you giddy inside!
Still not sure why there was no planning for wheelchair access? I guess no one thought of that? It would seem to me that aspect is direct violation of Federal Law?
None at all? Are you sure??
You can't get a building permit with being ADA accessible. I don't know where information that the courthouse is not wheelchair accessible is coming from. However, I can say that it is most likely wrong.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 08, 2010, 12:03:28 PM
You can't get a building permit with being ADA accessible. I don't know where information that the courthouse is not wheelchair accessible is coming from. However, I can say that it is most likely wrong.
I raised the handicap issue previously. Not, per se, within the confines of the building, but in terms of a drop off area and the distance from that point to a publicly accessible entry point into the building. I commented that it looked like a good block from any street curb to the front door if you remove Monroe in front of the building and don't replace it with some sort of driveway access. Lake, you actually bantered with me on this at the time. Do you know of another public access to the building from one of the remaining immediately adjacent streets?
curbside lane in blastzone portico for loading and unloading only_
not possible to add a stacking lane to Adams?
hmm
an extended overhang jutting out over a side lane scaled similarly to the Omni entrance tucked away off Water could be an easy retrofit.
thus providing a easy in for those scoot seat bound?
Quote from: stjr on October 09, 2010, 12:05:06 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 08, 2010, 12:03:28 PM
You can't get a building permit with being ADA accessible. I don't know where information that the courthouse is not wheelchair accessible is coming from. However, I can say that it is most likely wrong.
I raised the handicap issue previously. Not, per se, within the confines of the building, but in terms of a drop off area and the distance from that point to a publicly accessible entry point into the building. I commented that it looked like a good block from any street curb to the front door if you remove Monroe in front of the building and don't replace it with some sort of driveway access. Lake, you actually bantered with me on this at the time. Do you know of another public access to the building from one of the remaining immediately adjacent streets?
I have not seen the plans up close but I would assume that this complex will have at least three entrances since there are three buildings (new courthouse, old post office and the Ed Ball Building). As far as a drop off lane goes, in front of the new courthouse this can easily be done with drop-off lane at Adams & Clay, similar to the drop off circle at the Prime Osborn. Through good design, this can be incorporated into the green space and would cost a lot less than rebuilding Monroe.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/755529032_uJLK2-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/941975224_VLiUz-M.jpg)
Notice the old terminal's circular drop off area, extending west of the Lee and Water Street intersection. Something similar could be done for the front of the courthouse from the intersection of Adams & Clay. Throw a water feature in it, integrate it with the two block green space and it could be a pretty nice focal point.
I also agree; downtown Jax is more concrete than anything else, un-pedestrian friendly, and maybe if we had more green ingrained within the concrete for people to congregate (pedestrian friendly and don't bring the homeless issue up!), then I think we'd really be on to something. Great thread.
"HU"
To be honest...........have no idea as to wheeled access! But not really evident from what I have seen regarding Main Entrance! Maybe there is a side entrance that covers that, but not really evident from renderings.....main entrance is stepped, so maybe someone in the know might be able to address this question?
You can't build a non ADA accessible building from scratch today. I have not seen the plans up close but I'm in 100% belief that the main entrance is ADA accessible.
lake if you say so..............will take your word for it! Just not really evident and not really pedestrian friendly from what I have seen.
It's not going to be evident unless you look at the actual floor plans up close. You're going to have a hard time identifying ADA compliant ramps, door openings, etc. from conceptual renderings posted on sites like this.
From Times Union(Ron Littlepage):
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400601/ron-littlepage/2011-01-08/monroe-street-grand-entrance-doomed (http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400601/ron-littlepage/2011-01-08/monroe-street-grand-entrance-doomed)
QuoteMonroe Street as one of the grand entrances to downtown is kaput.
You remember the grand entrances idea, don't you?
A couple of decades ago, Chamber of Commerce types groused about how embarrassing it was to bring business prospects to downtown via what was a very shabby LaVilla.
Those coming from the airport were often taken past downtown and over the Fuller Warren Bridge so they could enter downtown over the Main Street bridge.
Then along came the River City Renaissance.
Most of LaVilla was bulldozed, and the streets running through it were redone.
For motorists coming from the south and exiting off Interstate 95, Monroe Street was to be one of those grand entrances with its new sidewalks, faux historic street lights and stately palm trees.
Today, there's a problem, a rather large one.
A sizeable chunk of the new county courthouse now under construction sits in the middle of Monroe Street.
Actually, there are two problems.
The ordinance approving construction of the courthouse requires that Monroe Street remains open.
That made sense at one time, but the design of the courthouse changed and it now blocks Monroe.
One option would be to curve Monroe Street around the courthouse.
That, however, is not practical because the curved road would have to go either smack dab up against the entrance to the courthouse or smack dab up against Adams Street.
Ron Barton, the executive director of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, is arguing that instead of rerouting Monroe Street, the area between the courthouse and Adams Street should become a public plaza.
That make sense, and the ordinance requiring an open Monroe Street needs to be amended by the City Council to allow it.
If you haven't seen the new courthouse, the first description that comes to mind is huge, really huge. Having open space in front of it will provide some breathing room.
And no matter what you think of the courthouse - a lot of folks aren't too keen on it, and you can count me in that group - it's reality now, and as a signature public building in downtown, it needs to be done correctly.
Besides, creating the plaza likely would be cheaper than redoing the road.
As for those motorists getting off I-95 who want to get to the heart of downtown, the right signage could direct them from Monroe to Jefferson Street to Forsyth Street.
That's not exactly a straight shot, but it would get the job done.
It also might help if some of the one-way streets that turn downtown into a confusing mess for those who don't frequent it often were made into two-way streets.
There is a study under way to determine what traffic patterns would work best for downtown. There has to be a better way than what's there now.
As for Monroe Street, it is what it is - a grand entrance to a grand, $350-million (ugh) courthouse.
LOOK MOM NO STREET!!
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SO WHAT IF WE DID AWAY WITH THE STREET BUT KEPT THE STREETCAR LINE?
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SEND IT THROUGH A PRETTY PLAZA
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MAYBE A TRANSIT ONLY BOARDING ZONE?
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TSoksl7QnII/AAAAAAAADeI/0_TRvth6rck/s800/STREETCAR_AMERICAN-PLAZA.jpg)
LIKE THIS UNIVERSITY'S SIDEWALK CAFE?
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TSolFhVJFKI/AAAAAAAADeo/lRwRQooUJn4/s800/STREETCAR_portland-streetcar.jpg)
MAYBE TAKE A PAGE FROM TAMPA'S SOUTHERN TRANSPORTATION PLAZA?
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TSolYk8BHfI/AAAAAAAADe8/hKb7XP4XR6k/s640/STREETCAR_TampaAug08GrecoPlazaDomeCarstop.jpg)
A COZY ALL WEATHER STATION THAT COMPLIMENTS THE COURTHOUSE? MAYBE ENOUGH PILLARS TO PUT IT JUST THIS SIDE OF THE PARTHENON?
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TSolFyq7doI/AAAAAAAADe0/_066Ct0FHvk/s800/STREETCAR_TAMPA.jpg)
OR KEEP IT SIMPLE LIKE MC GRAW SQUARE IN SEATTLE + ICE CREAM TRUCK!
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TSomBjd-jDI/AAAAAAAADf8/sSXtzO68NvQ/s640/streetcarplaza_big.jpg)
MORAL: "YOU DON'T NEED PAVEMENT TO BE A BIG CITY, TIME TO PULL YOUR HEAD OUT JACKSONVILLE..."
OCKLAWAHA
You're in luck, Ock. JTA has a BRT stop on Broad Street that will be adjacent to this proposed public space. ;)
pavement free streetcar tracks make me randy
Your becoming famous Ennis!
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/editorials/2011-02-20/story/monroe-street-two-urban-wrongs
Quote
Monroe Street: Two urban wrongs
Posted: February 20, 2011
Mike Clark/The Times-Union
Monroe Street was supposed to provide a straight shot from Interstate 95 to the Hart Expressway.
Then something happened: A gargantuan courthouse was plopped right on Monroe Street.
From all appearances, Monroe Street dead-ends at Broad Street.
But some insist that Monroe Street connection across downtown ought to exist, never mind the courthouse in the way. To keep the street heading east, it must take a turn around the new courthouse.
As The Times-Union reported earlier, the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission supports the closure of Monroe Street.
City Council tabled the closure recently as Councilman Michael Corrigan said the issue deserves a community discussion.
Let's pretend
It shouldn't take much time. Extending Monroe Street is based on pretending that a massive new building isn't blocking the way.
The new looping, swerving Monroe Street will look like a service road, an invitation for people to drop off passengers, perhaps even a security issue.
Besides, the idea that drivers are being inconvenienced doesn't apply. The Forsyth Street exit downtown comes first for northbound traffic on Interstate 95 and is more convenient for drivers looking for the parking garage to the south of the courthouse.
In fact, eastbound drivers on Monroe Street would have to double back to reach the entrance to the courthouse parking garage.
Think of pedestrians
As urban planner Ennis Davis wrote on these pages Tuesday, the new Monroe Street design would give traffic priority over pedestrians downtown.
It's all about envisioning downtown as a livable neighborhood or just a place to escape from.
Closing Monroe Street would allow for a pedestrian park, more access to street-level retail, urban bicycle paths and other amenities. And it probably would be cheaper than building the road.
Besides, if most interior downtown streets become two-way, then many of the inconveniences of driving downtown are removed. Davis notes that one-way streets would be left around the perimeter of the downtown core, such as Broad-Jefferson and State-Union.
Turning Monroe Street into a winding path around the courthouse is like cramming a round street into a straight hole.
Downtown has more than enough concrete. That new courthouse could use some trees, some gardens and a parklike setting.
The time to protect Monroe Street was before the courthouse was built on top of it.
If it was a mistake to place the new courthouse on Monroe Street, then let's not make another one.
That winding street looks ridiculous. We have been getting along just fine with a closed Monroe Street.
If completed, it can only lead to that unofficial motto of urban planning known to Jacksonville residents:
What were they thinking?
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/editorials/2011-02-20/story/monroe-street-two-urban-wrongs#ixzz1EVsVHnQa
looks like the site visit w/ Mr. Clark paid off
Hey you know that article is right on!
Even though Ennis' letter to the editor and Mr Clark's editorial is great... you all still need to call your councilmen/women and let your voice be heard.
It literally takes 5 minutes. Heck, quoting this article is easy enough if you are uncomfortable about speaking intelligently on the subject.
Heard a blurb on NPR that council voted to "keep Monroe Street open"
What does this mean!?
Does anybody have a ballpark idea of how much the road would cost compared to a public plaza? Sorry if this was already covered, but I'd just like to know the numbers.
The JEDC claims $500k. However, I'm sure you could scrap expensive materials/amenities/palm trees, etc. and lay down some sod with oak lined regular sidewalks for less.
Quote from: ricker on January 11, 2011, 11:11:11 AM
pavement free streetcar tracks make me randy
Great, but be aware that streetcars come in two versions AC/DC...OCKLAWAHA
Well, it appears this issue isn't dead. Don Redman wants to open the discussion back up. Good for him.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=534113
Quote from: fsujax on July 26, 2011, 11:14:27 AM
Well, it appears this issue isn't dead. Don Redman wants to open the discussion back up. Good for him.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=534113
Yes, good for him! Email your council members and encourage them to support keeping Monroe closed.
Call and email your City Council rep. This needs to be brought back before City Council again.
Off of the topic at hand, but pulled from the Dailynews article, "
QuoteThe other holdover from June 28, a “live here, work here†measure that would require City employees, mayoral appointees and constitutional officers to live in Duval County is up for a vote. The change has been proposed by Council member Reggie Brown as a way to keep tax dollars provided to City employees through payroll within the area. "
Now I might be reading too much common sense into this issue, but shouldn't the ones who represent an area, and have authoritative power of an area be affected by the rules & regulations that they create/enforce? Someone who lives in St. John's or Clay county isn't affected by a millage increase in Duval nor are they affected by the underfunding of Duval schools or the lack of police presence. IMO, that person is unfit to represent an area that they have no vested interest in.