Elements of Urbanism: Kansas City
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/968126126_wL2e4-M.jpg)
Kansas City boasts over 100,000 office workers, 16,000 residents, and $4 Billion in investment in their downtown. Check out the current state of Kansas City.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-sep-elements-of-urbanism-kansas-city
KC is a very nice city. I have to ask did the picture of the lady(I use that loosely) holding the sign about Homosexuality have to be used in this? I know it's her freedom of speech, but to see that picture in this just hits me the wrong way this morning. >:( Just my thoughts. ::)
I didn't really have any religious motive for including it. Reading them now, I think the majority of America is on this list for at least one thing (including the sign holder). I snapped a ton of shots (that one while driving) and when I created the article, my interest was the park and urban space she was in, moreso then the messages of her two signs.
.I concur!
Quote from: thelakelander on September 01, 2010, 06:20:56 AM
I didn't really have any religious motive for including it. Reading them now, I think the majority of America is on this list for at least one thing (including the sign holder). I snapped a ton of shots (that one while driving) and when I created the article, my interest was the park and urban space she was in, moreso then the messages of her two signs.
Sorry to be so sensitive. I do understand where your coming from. We here in little Key West have a sign guy that holds them up all over town. He even stands at the entrance to Key West and all the vistors get to see him. The funny thing is he is a gay man. Anyway Have a great day!
Man those first few picture made kansas city look desolate.
Kansas City...one of the most underrated cities in America.
God I love that town...
Just wish they had the obligatory picture of Arthur Bryant's BBQ!
What a vivacious, dense, and well proportioned looking downtown! If there is any city's downtown and/or skyline that I've seen in pics or in person that I think Jacksonville should look like, it's Kansas City. I wouldn't want our downtown or core to look like any of Florida's major cities either. It also looks like there is plenty to do in Kansas City. Looking at how small Jax's city limits was prior to consolidation, we had quite a lot of people packed in our city limits before consolidation and before the loss of most of our people and buildings within those city limits back then. Kansas City has quite a lot of land area for a non-consoldiated city, but not a lot of people it seems within those city limits. All in all I like the look and the picturesque feel of Kansas City. Good looking city.
Quote from: ben says on September 01, 2010, 08:46:33 AM
Kansas City...one of the most underrated cities in America.
God I love that town...
Just wish they had the obligatory picture of Arthur Bryant's BBQ!
Great meat and huge portions. Went there but did not include it in the article:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Kansas-City-August-2010/P1380498/968123389_gZ47Y-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Kansas-City-August-2010/P1380497/968123314_L6oFq-M.jpg)
I love Duval County to death.. I'm Duval bred til I'm Duval dead.. BUTTTT!... Everybody Downtown is better than our Downtown.. We soooo far behind
The majority of KC's DT seemed pretty dead to me, although they do have the benefit of a ton of historic building stock still being in place. The inner city neighborhoods like the Crossroads, River Market, Country Club Plaza, Westport, 39th Street, etc. seemed to be the urban spots to be. However, DT's Power & Light District was pretty nice.
RE: Power & Light District
If the same tiresome chains are located in everybody's renovated downtown, what's the point? I guess the days of each city being a unique entity are long gone.
I might like this city more than St. Louis now (I have only been to St. Louis so I can't really tell), but wow! This is a better photo thread of KC, MO than I have seen on any number of other sites!
QuoteI guess the days of each city being a unique entity are long gone.
I don't think so. Kansas City's urban core is very unique once you hit the surrounding urban districts. I continue to believe this is an issue where we really fall short in living up to our urban development potential. There's too much focus on our DT's, imho. Vibrant isolated DTs aren't what makes walkable cities unique and inviting places to be. It's the ability of having seamless connectivity and synergy between several distinct walkable districts that combine to form one vibrant large scale unique urban product. For both Jacksonville and KC, the unique pieces are there. The question to me is how do you pull them together to make that seamless walkable connection?
KC is my hometown and is a great town. If it weren't for the weather, I would consider moving back one day but unless Global Warming makes it warmer, I'm Jacksonville forever.
I was being hyperbolic. Of course differences exist once you get out of downtown. But that just underlines my point. Go back and look at most of the "renovated downtown urban entertainment districts" that have been featured in the various photo-essays on MJ. Can anybody really tell the difference from one to another? If someone blindfolded you and then dropped you into the Power & Light District or 4th Street Live or The District or Laclede's Landing or Over-the-Rhine's, etc. etc. could you tell the difference? Is this what we want for our own DT?
Over-The-Rhine would stand out because it's a uniquely preserved 19th century neighborhood with an organically grown nightlife component. The others are entertainment oriented shopping centers that are owned by a single company. I get your point, but it really comes down to fake vs organic. One follows the ideology for shopping mall development (thus the chains needed to make the numbers work) and the other forms naturally by a number of urban pioneers opening complementing uses in close proximity of each other. The later typically happens outside of DTs because cheaper land, buildings and lease rates in districts that are just as walkable are available and more feasible for local businesses to open in.
This is why Jax gets no respect and joked on by national media. I used to live in KC back the mid 80's when I was 10years old. We used to take Greyhound from KC to Jax. I remember how awesome their Greyhound station so nice and big. We come to Jax and see that crap we have now. My eyes used to light up when went downtown KC. Crown Center was lit up. We're so behind other similar, major cities and we're known for nothing. We need to be known for something good, something special. Why can't they build a mini amusement park at the Shipyards? This connected to East Bay Street will jump start alot of activity down there. I read in Jaxdaily that the StJohns towncenter developer was in talks with mayor about a amusement park there. Why is that so hard to get done around here? Is it the major, city council. I don't know man. I love this town but I'm sick of the slothfulness
Quote from: thelakelander on September 01, 2010, 11:13:27 AM
The later typically happens outside of DTs because cheaper land, buildings and lease rates in districts that are just as walkable are available and more feasible for local businesses to open in.
But it's happening in our DT on East Bay St. and instead of encouraging it and doing everything it can to help it along, our city squanders it resources worrying about which same-old, same-old chain it can get to open in the Landing.
QuoteVibrant isolated DTs aren't what makes walkable cities unique and inviting places to be. It's the ability of having seamless connectivity and synergy between several distinct walkable districts that combine to form one vibrant large scale unique urban product. For both Jacksonville and KC, the unique pieces are there. The question to me is how do you pull them together to make that seamless walkable connection?
I think Im finally beginning to FULLY understand this point. I had somewhat of a revelation on Saturday driving from my house, to the Landing to pick up 100 wings from Hooters, then to Kernan to a buddy of mine's house to watch the Jags game.
Our DT really is cutoff from every surrounding urban neighborhood... and this was done so intentionally, not organically or by any natural borders. Hence there is a lot of dead space seperating these neighborhoods and no one has an incentive to cross the no man's land.
Quote from: finehoe on September 01, 2010, 12:14:56 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 01, 2010, 11:13:27 AM
The later typically happens outside of DTs because cheaper land, buildings and lease rates in districts that are just as walkable are available and more feasible for local businesses to open in.
But it's happening in our DT on East Bay St. and instead of encouraging it and doing everything it can to help it along, our city squanders it resources worrying about which same-old, same-old chain it can get to open in the Landing.
It's only happening because of the drastic drop in real estate values, which is a great side effect of the economic bust. These organic uses are now feasible start ups. A couple of years ago, they were not. Nevertheless, I don't think the city is discouraging this. In fact, they've spent millions to facilitate it in terms of public infrastructure upgrades.
Quote from: fieldafm on September 01, 2010, 12:43:59 PM
QuoteVibrant isolated DTs aren't what makes walkable cities unique and inviting places to be. It's the ability of having seamless connectivity and synergy between several distinct walkable districts that combine to form one vibrant large scale unique urban product. For both Jacksonville and KC, the unique pieces are there. The question to me is how do you pull them together to make that seamless walkable connection?
I think Im finally beginning to FULLY understand this point. I had somewhat of a revelation on Saturday driving from my house, to the Landing to pick up 100 wings from Hooters, then to Kernan to a buddy of mine's house to watch the Jags game.
Our DT really is cutoff from every surrounding urban neighborhood... and this was done so intentionally, not organically or by any natural borders. Hence there is a lot of dead space seperating these neighborhoods and no one has an incentive to cross the no man's land.
This is one of the major reasons I've jumped on the fixed mass transit bandwagon. Projects like streetcars and LRT have a strong history in this country of spurring the type of sustainable development needed to not only help revitalize DT but also spur the needed infill in dead zones like Brooklyn, LaVilla, the Cathedral, Sports Districts and other economically challenged neighborhoods.
During my visit to KC, their MAX (BRT) is a pretty nice bus line. However, it was clear that it has not stimulated the type of development that new american streetcar lines have along their corridors in its five years of operation. I would hate to see Jacksonville and JTA repeat the same mistake by not looking at the entire picture when it comes to making mass transit investments. It really is about a lot more than moving mass transit riders from point A to B. It's a form of "community building".
Quote from: thelakelander on September 01, 2010, 01:23:26 PM
It really is about a lot more than moving mass transit riders from point A to B. It's a form of "community building".
Amen to that.
I think we have discovered the secret of a truly great downtown!
A really cool, old fashioned.
WESTERN AUTO STORE
But of course darling, we blew our up!
Oh well, at least we can take comfort in the fact that KC has a transit agency and government transit policy worse then ours.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 01, 2010, 09:43:44 PM
I think we have discovered the secret of a truly great downtown!
A really cool, old fashioned.
WESTERN AUTO STORE
But of course darling, we blew our up!
Oh well, at least we can take comfort in the fact that KC has a transit agency and government transit policy worse then ours.
OCKLAWAHA
LOL, b/c a Western Auto has worked SO well for Starke's DT resurgence!
I was just in Nashville and spent an evening in the downtown, which was jumping. And w/in shouting distance of the downtown there was activity in The Gulch area where lofts and apts are available along w/ commercial stuff. It has taken awhile but Nville has figured out what people want in a downtown and has focused on meeting that need. The city has virtually no mass transit BTW and we walked about 5 blocks from the parking garage to the restaurant but there was some much to look at that it didn't seem like much of a walk.
They do have the Music City Star commuter rail line. Nashville has done a great job of integrating and clustering a variety of pedestrian friendly uses within a compact setting in downtown over the last couple of decades. If they could get the mass transit equation worked out, that scene would advance to another level if tied together (streetcar or LRT perhaps?) with spots like East Nashville, Hillsboro Village, Vanderbilt and West End.
You can use this link to access several images from an article we did on urban Nashville last year:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jun-elements-of-urbanism-nashville
Nashville is a lot like Orlando's DT. Everything is clustered together within about a 10-12 block radius and very pedestrian friendly.
I guess you can run comparisons all day long with similar aspects of any other city and find ways to give examples witch might work for downtown Jacksonville. For awhile the post on your blog supported the need for a parking garage for the Landing, well you got it and now we shall see. The Prime Osborne Ctr. was originally planned with a Hotel and expansion of the Downtown footprint. Provide businesses with a 20yr or more property tax avoidance and you can expect to have multiple inquires competing for existing space or new developments. Gear it to housing and corporate office units.
Just to set the record straight, the support on this site was for the establishment of dedicated parking through better utilization of an existing parking lot. That is completely different from the idea of supporting the construction of a new parking garage. Have they even closed on the property yet? With that said, give it six months after the property is in ownership, before passing judgement on whether dedicated parking improves the Landing's chances on attracting more tenants. Business deals don't happen overnight you know.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 02, 2010, 10:55:43 AM
...give it six months after the property is in ownership, before passing judgement on whether dedicated parking improves the Landing's chances on attracting more tenants.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
You would die if you tried.
impressive
I just spent a few days in KCMO with friends and went down into the Crossroads neighborhood to help with the homeless for Christmas.
As we drove through I recognized some of the recent upgrades through this MJ article.
The one thing I noticed is that KCMO has not been as extensive in tearing down older buildings in the urban core. They have done a better job at getting them re-purposed into new use, either lofts, office/research or grills/bars. However, you can see where they have pretty much decimated their legacy manufacturing districts west of the city center. Lots of vacant, run down, weed choked lots.
But there are much more signs of reinvestment in the core than there are here. The overpasses on the rebuilt freeways aren't using the FHA generic "green steel & concrete" but have taken on a french colonial style design (also seen in St Louis as well) with older streetlight designs that improve the asthetics significantly. I applaud MoDOT for at least trying to improve the look. The Sprint Center, Kaufmann Performing Arts Center, all great additions to bring people into the core.
Country Club Plaza is a St Johns Town Center on steroids. It leverages its setting next to Brush Creek really well, and of anyone says its too cold to have a mall outside, 18 degrees wasn't swaying the crowds I saw. It's proximity to UMKC Campus and the many parks surrounding it, make it a great setting.
Never got to use local transit, perhaps next time.
QuoteCountry Club Plaza is a St Johns Town Center on steroids.
Comparing CCP to SJTC is like comparing the Effiel Tower to a cell phone tower. CCP is a completely urban design with very little surface parking.
^ that was built in the 1920s
Looking at the Country Club Plaza's directory, I'm not overwhelmed by no means; I'd argue that SJTC's goes toe to toe with it directory-wise. Then again, I'm supposed to believe that everything is about decorative towers, charm, pedestrian layouts etc....
I was in KC over the weekend. They have an excellent downtown setup. Kansas City Live! is a cool spot.