QuoteBy Larry Hannan
The Jacksonville Transportation Authority’s efforts to construct bus shelters with advertisements was dealt another blow Monday when the only company to bid for the contract was rejected.
Streetscape Media Inc., a Fleming Island company, was rejected by JTA officials because they weren’t certain the company could do the job. The firm formed last year and has never built a bus shelter.
JTA spokesman Mike Miller said there was concern over the companies lack of experience and uncertainty over whether the company had the capital to build and maintain the shelters.
The transportation agency may wait for the economy to improve before seeking another vendor. It also may look into building the shelters itself and selling advertisements in-house, Miller said.
Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-06-14/story/jacksonville-bus-shelters-delayed-lack-interest
Now, if the JTA would just finish building the other sidewalk on Blanding Blvd. (North between Collins and Morse)
they would be good.
I'll give them credit, they did build a sidewalk going south with bus shelters, but they need to finish.
The only problem with the bus shelters is in locations with buildings close to the street. (Park & King, Blanding and San Juan) The shelters would block the businesses.
There need to be more "big" bus shelters like the one on Phillips Hwy. at Walmart. (going south)
If they would just put a glass in the middle it would protect from the rain.
I don't know about 99 degree heat!
In my world, when I'm elected dictator of JTA, bus stop audits will be conducted on a regular ongoing basis. ANY bus stop that reaches a certain plateau of passenger usage would go to a large model station, with AC/HEAT/WIFI/NEWSTAND/JTA HOTLINE PHONE/SEATING/LEASE SPACE FOR FOOD-DRINK VENDING MACHINES/TRANSIT PASS MACHINE (remember NO FARE collection on buses when I take over).
The upgraded stations would also apply where JTA interlines with another carrier such as the St. Johns County "SUNSHINE BUS SYSTEM" that interchanges at the Avenues and/or Ponte Vedra. hee hee.
BTW, no turnstiles either!! Have these folks have never heard of optics? scanners?
Q. If you owned a convenience store and you could make $1.00 or more on every weekly-monthly-yearly trip pass you sold, would ridership increase in your area? What if you owned 20 stores? What if you made .25 cents on EVERY single trip pass you sold? What if this was available to any business, club, residential community, group fund raisers?
OCKLAWAHA
Gee Ock! Tickets selling like your saying might even take the place of "Advertising"? JTA , like usual, has managed to drop the ball just one more time! This is getting to be a habit with them or maybe just business as usual............where is their Plan B? So they went to all of the trouble to get the Sign Amendment changed to suit them, one company bid, they did not get the bid and now we are back to square one again! So-called transportation professionals and this is the best that they can do? I have an idea, lets fire all of the upper management right now and start over! I have a dollar to wager, that none of the JTA Command personnel has ever rode any bus..............are there any takers?
Can I say "I told you so!"? Go back and read the bus shelter ad posts by myself and some of the JTA lackeys that lurk here and see who predicted this outcome.
JTA did this all wrong. Total lack of up front homework and due diligence. I questioned from the beginning whether this was a viable business model and I don't even work for JTA. It's called common sense. Mass transit experience be damned. They had no firm numbers on costs, never showed what the business plan was supposed to be (i.e. anticipated revenue streams vs. expected costs), no clear definition of who was doing what, picking the shelter design without consulting with the ad company bidders, vagueness on which shelters would be built where and how ads would be sold at low traffic stops, etc. Add the conflicts of interests, lack of transparency, and deliberate dissemination of misleading numbers to get approval and this is what you get: Another JTA fiasco.
Look, bus shelters should be as integral to running the bus system as buying a bus. Budget for them and provide them in the same manner. Any ad revenue is gravy but it is not going to pay for the core of a transit system. No more than the lottery pays for education. JTA isn't doing their job right and the ad controversy was a side show to distract from that.
Ok I'll take my medicine.
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I knew this was going to happen. Another great move. Keep up the good work city of Jacksonville LMAO
How suprising that JTA received ALL that stimulous money and they are going to "wait until the economy improves" before choosing another vendor. This city is really joke. So to all bus rider, shelters coming anytime soon. So get used to standing up in the sun or sitting down on a bench that falling apart.
I truely feel sorry for bus riders. Its bad enought they have no car, but that have to suffer in all heat.
The Landing is getting parking and the Tiro is getting revived. I guess we cant have everything our way.Atleast something is going in the right direction for a change.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on June 15, 2010, 02:04:06 PM
I knew this was going to happen. Another great move. Keep up the good work city of Jacksonville LMAO
I could be wrong on this but isn't JTA a State agency. Funded by the state. So the city of Jacksonville would have very little involvement in how the JTA operates and does business, would it not?
What would be the process for dismantling JTA?
Quote from: jbroadglide on June 15, 2010, 02:14:02 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on June 15, 2010, 02:04:06 PM
I knew this was going to happen. Another great move. Keep up the good work city of Jacksonville LMAO
I could be wrong on this but isn't JTA a State agency. Funded by the state. So the city of Jacksonville would have very little involvement in how the JTA operates and does business, would it not?
You know honestly I have a clue, but they need to get their act together. Things that happen in the city PERIOD are a utter mess, whether its a state agency or not.
I don't see how JTA had those 3 bus shelter rendering options if a supplier/installer had not already been chosen? I'm sure there is a hungry supplier in this market. Atlanta is putting in new bus shelters all over the city, maybe JTA should find out who is supplying those.
From the article:
QuoteStreetscape Media CEO William Fritz expressed surprise when informed by the Times-Union on Monday that his bid had been rejected.
"I can understand their concern about our lack of experience," he said. "But I'm very disappointed because this was something we wanted to do."
The company had hoped to build the shelters and use that as a springboard to doing work in other cities, Fritz said. He said the company had sufficient financial resources.
How hard is it to build and maintain a bus shelter? After all, it's not a nuclear power plant. Why not give the local guy a chance and building and maintaining a limited number of shelters to see how it goes. Even that is better than people roasting in the sun until the economy improves in a couple of years.
Here is an article on the the new Atlanta Bus Shelters. It looks like this is from Jan 2008 and they are just installing them now. I guess they take as long there as in Jax to push things through.
http://notify.itsmarta.com/legacy/newsletter/2008/january.html
JTA = COJ = JEA theres really no difference. lol round that to the nearest number and u get Jacksonville.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 15, 2010, 04:17:08 PM
From the article:
How hard is it to build and maintain a bus shelter? After all, it's not a nuclear power plant. Why not give the local guy a chance and building and maintaining a limited number of shelters to see how it goes. Even that is better than people roasting in the sun until the economy improves in a couple of years.
My sentiments exactly. How not one person of consequence in an entire "Agency" thought of this makes my inner child cry.
And had JTA gone with the unproven company, and the shelters were poorly built and not maintained, everyone here (me, too) would be screaming that they were fools to give it to a brand new company with no experience. Didn't the article say the RFP required one year experience, and this firm is only a few months old? Haven't we been there with contracts from the Mayor's Office to start up, unqualified companies?
Oh, and JTA is a state agency, but gets City money (see the discussion about the local gas tax and sales tax). Their Board has 3 appointed by the Mayor, 3 by the Governor, and the 7th is the head of the DOT regional office. Sort of a hybrid.
Quote from: stjr on June 15, 2010, 12:09:59 PM
Can I say "I told you so!"? Go back and read the bus shelter ad posts by myself and some of the JTA lackeys that lurk here and see who predicted this outcome.
I agree that this is kind of sad...but a few comments:
1. You previously noted that JTA was going to build these shelters...and would beon the hook when the ad $ didn't come in...I mentioned that this was not the case and if it wasn't profitable for private companies, no one would respons to the bid
2. Someone did respond to the bid (btw not getting enough qualified responses is quite common)....and as Charles has noted, many would have complained strongly if a nopn-qualified company was selected
3. As others have noted, it has taken ATL more than 2 yers to implement their new shelters...anyone who thinks transit projects happen quickly doesn't know much about transit.
QuoteWhy not give the local guy a chance and building and maintaining a limited number of shelters to see how it goes.
Would this be possible? Could a new company purchase shelters specified by JTA from a proven manufacturer? That would eliminate the idea of a poorly built structure and leave it up to the private company to maintain. If he can't maintain a small limited number, then so be it. It just seems that even with a newcomer, safeguards could be put in to protect JTA's interest. By outright rejecting the only bidder, the people who continue to suffer the most are the riders. It has been pretty toasty the last few days. Shelters would have been nice regardless of whether they are maintained by John Doe, Lamar or CBS Outdoor.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 15, 2010, 10:16:25 PM
3. As others have noted, it has taken ATL more than 2 yers to implement their new shelters...anyone who thinks transit projects happen quickly doesn't know much about transit.
That was pretty quick. We've been on this shelter thing for something like five years now.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 15, 2010, 10:26:17 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 15, 2010, 10:16:25 PM
3. As others have noted, it has taken ATL more than 2 yers to implement their new shelters...anyone who thinks transit projects happen quickly doesn't know much about transit.
That was pretty quick. We've been on this shelter thing for something like five years now.
true...but the anti-ad people convinced City Council to vote against it twice
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 15, 2010, 10:16:25 PM
1. You previously noted that JTA was going to build these shelters...and would beon the hook when the ad $ didn't come in...
Tufsu, I recall that I raised the question about who was building the shelters and who would be on the hook if JTA built them and an ad company didn't show up to pay for them. JTA never made clear what the actual business plan was so I could never conclude for sure who was building them.Quote
2. Someone did respond to the bid (btw not getting enough qualified responses is quite common)....and as Charles has noted, many would have complained strongly if a nopn-qualified company was selected
Fact appears to be that NO QUALIFIED companies (i.e. meeting JTA specs) applied. That's a big zero, Tufsu.
Quote3. As others have noted, it has taken ATL more than 2 yers to implement their new shelters...anyone who thinks transit projects happen quickly doesn't know much about transit.
Hmmm...apparently, City Council proponents, as well as some posting on MJ, thought we would have shelters popping up during this summer. Excuses, excuses.... JTA misleads and disappoints again. Nothing you say Tufsu can change that.
By the way, found this post of mine from October 27, 2009 (post #71, http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,5738.60.html):QuoteI expect a decent probability of JTA disappointing and/or looking foolish when all the details come out on this. I noticed they didn't publicize in the press any examples of shelters to be funded or the amount of proceeds per shelter they expect to get.
And this from November 11, 2009 (post #102, http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,5738.90.html):QuoteHow does the revenue brought in from ads match up with the expenses of building and maintaining the shelters? For all we know, this could just be a JTA pipe dream. "Show us the money!"
...JTA isn't shooting straight with us. Starting with the fallacious bus stop and maintenance numbers and relying on an attorney with a conflict of interest to disregard outside experts about billboard issues. And, continuing on with the above. The number of gullible and unquestioning public officials we have is why Jax can't ever dig out of some of these holes.
So, where to go from here? I repeat one of many possibilities (January 12, 2010, Post #136, http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,5738.135.html):QuoteSo, JTA had about $85 million in cash (non-depreciation, for Tufsu) operating expenditures ($68.5 million for buses) and another $174 million in governmental fund expenditures in 2007/08. And, they can't find less than $500,000 for bus shelter maintenance in support of a core mission of bus service? That's less than 1% of just the bus system cash expenses, taken alone. Really, now, less than 1%. How hard could that be?
By the way, we are still waiting for JTA's 2008/2009 annual report. Any JTA lovers here have the answer why it's still not posted on JTA's web site?
The whole snafu is found in the following quote from The Lakelander.Quotespecified by JTA
JTA is such a dinosaur that it specified everything but the bolt size and thus if there is ANY failure the onus falls back on the "Idiot that designed them." The new school would have JTA specify ONLY the expected result or benefit from the shelters with a few broad guidelines, nothing more.
How does it work?
EXAMPLE:
MJ orders a motor coach to use in travel and covering the city's news... We specify every nut, bolt, washer, watt, resistor, cam, piston, etc...
When it's delivered it is a colossal failure, when we call the factory they are going to say, "HEY WE BUILT IT TO YOUR SPECS!"
MJ orders a motor coach to use in travel and covering the city's news... We specify the benefits we expect from said coach, ie: powerful AC more then enough to wipe away 112 degree days, snack and coffee bar, lounge, recliners etc...
When it's delivered and the AC fails to keep it cool, we can go back to the factory and say "HEY WE TOLD YOU heavy duty AC, nice try but it doesn't meet our implied specs?"
In effect move the ball to their court and the smaller company wouldn't have made such a difference. When I become burgermeister of JTA, we'll use RESULT DRIVEN SPECS AND BIDS, rather then OUR OWN SPEC DRIVEN BIDS.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: stephendare on June 16, 2010, 12:11:26 AM
Is it a surprise that after holding up construction of these shelters for the entire duration of the High, until the very last gasp of the economy lay panting in the worst downturn since the great depression, that there isnt enough advertising dollars to make it work right now? Of course not.
Yet the very people who are the most to blame for not getting some built while there were funds available to do it are the ones crowing over their 'victory'.
Disgusting.
Stephen, another night of nasty spinning and sulking, huh? And, more mixing apples and oranges when logic fails you.
The only "victory" is that JTA predictably bungled another of its core responsibilities proving its critics once again correct in questioning the competency of JTA in nearly everything JTA does. If shelters are not built, only JTA is to blame, not those concerned about protecting our hard-fought-for sign ordinance. It was, after all, JTA's plan that was approved, JTA's promises to deliver, and JTA's job to execute JTA's approved plan.
But, rather than hold JTA accountable, it appears you are conducting your irrelevant sideshows again, suggesting that those who opposed changing the advertising ordinance to allow bus shelter ads and not endanger our billboard and other sign restrictions are against bus shelters. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth and you offer not one shred of evidence to back up your inferences. All you know is that some people don't agree with you and that's an excuse for another tantrum and the irrational demonizing of those who differ with you.
After joining others in declaring ads as the great salvation of bringing bus shelters to Jax bus riders, you are suddenly not surprised that it failed? Well, I warned you last October that JTA was headed for disaster, and that was after they were well on their way to running roughshod over their "ADversaries" to get approval for ads. The only reason for failure is none other than your friends at JTA. This whole program was never properly researched, vetted, and planned, plain and simple. Just as I suggested all along.
Stjr, the idea of ads on shelters aren't the problem here. That's a proven method that has been applied in a ton of communities across the country. I'd be more interested in taking a closer look at JTA's specs and decision makers. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lack of creativity on multiple fronts.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 16, 2010, 06:08:39 AM
Stjr, the idea of ads on shelters aren't the problem here. That's a proven method that has been applied in a ton of communities across the country. I'd be more interested in taking a closer look at JTA's specs and decision makers. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lack of creativity on multiple fronts.
lake.........I have to agree with your take on this one! JTA has proven over and over, management lacks vision or a plan for something as simple as a "Shelter"! Going the MIL spec route is not only redundant but violates the mandate under which Jacksonville Transit Authority is supposed to operate under! I can understand why they did, but do not agree with that concept! The disconnect between JTA and the taxpayers is just exaggerated...........I guess I should point out, just how many companies actually bid on this, advertising not withstanding?