Anybody planning on voting for this fraud?
Anybody else sick of his commercials yet?
Yuck, disgusting! >:(
Judging by the response, it doesn't seem like he has many supporters on this site.
Shocking.
nope, no thanks
I'm all for it if he makes McCollum work/spend money in the primary
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
This guy's a total bottom feeder. He and his McMedical Care are the biggest jokes in Florida.
Even if Alex Sink was running as a republican, I'd vote for her before the other two, one a puppet and the other just Jeb Bush light.
I think with her not running any ads yet is actually a good thing, she doesn't have to resort to attacks and other crap yet to get her name out there.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on May 13, 2010, 03:21:30 PM
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
AAAAAAAAAH Someone likes ZeroPunctuation!!
You don't have to vote for a rep or a dem. http://www.johnwayne4gov.com
John Wayne?
I figure the Dem's will be in serious trouble the day the Rep's figure out that the message "cut - chop - eliminate" doesn't sell as well as real idea's and programs. The ideas and programs could even be "party line" but they must sell a product and a negative is not a product.
Don't blame me, I voted National Socialist.
OCKLAWAHA
I love this guy's commercials because they are just so stupid.
Can't be any worse the Green's commercials where he wearing a smirk that says "I just farted".
Quote from: Shwaz on May 25, 2010, 05:31:47 PM
Can't be any worse the Green's commercials where he wearing a smirk that says "I just farted".
hmm, I was thinking pedophile. Funny thing is that he used to be a Republican.
The big thing that makes me against Scott is that he has a background as a lawyer, and they're all just bad news in politics.
Bill McCollum's chickens have come home to roost. He did not mind when Rick Scott spent $$$ to prevent health care reform from passing. Now that Rick Scott is running in the GOP primary for governor, Scott has outlived his usefulness to McCollum. Now, we are supposed to believe that health care executives are not to be trusted? LOL @ McCollum.
Question: Rick Scott for Governor?
Answer: H-to-the-E-to-the-L-L-NO!
Can money always trump negative baggage in politics? Looks that way. The disgraced Rick Scott is pulling ahead of McCollum. What does that say about us, never mind what it says about Rick Scott?
QuoteYou would never know it from the barrage of attack ads, but Bill McCollum and Rick Scott agree on many of the core issues GOP voters care about. Smaller government and lower taxes, they argue, are the key to Florida's future.
It's too bad the campaigns are mired in the past, casting them as if they are total and complete opposites.
McCollum, who is currently the state's elected attorney general, visited the FOX 13 studios Friday to discuss the topsy-turvy, increasingly negative campaign for Florida governor. He said Scott's late entry into the race came as a surprise.
"I certainly didn't expect a guy to come into the race who's come out of nowhere, who's a millionaire spending already almost $20 million of his personal wealth," he said. "I did not expect that.â€
Recent polling from Quinnipiac University shows Scott is pulling ahead of McCollum. 44% of likely GOP voters chose Scott; 31% said they would vote for McCollum.
McCollum said he is very well aware of the anti-incumbent attitude shared by many voters. Scott has sought to seize on the McCollum's tenure in congress and portray him as an insider.
"If you want a career politician, go with McCollum," he said in a recent ad. Another Scott campaign commercial links McCollum's votes in congress to the housing crisis.
McCollum is undeterred.
"I'm very proud of the public service that I've done," he said Friday.
McCollum has fired back at Scott, highlighting that federal government levied its largest-ever fraud fine on Columbia/HCA, where Scott was CEO. In a new attack ad, McCollum ties that period in Scott's life to abortion, which is consistently a top issue for stalwart GOP primary voters.
"Rick Scott, let's get real," McCollum says. "While your hospitals profited from abortions, I voted 100% pro-life."
On Friday McCollum was unapologetic for the ads.
"I've been attacked ad after ad, dollar after dollar," he said.
McCollum, who is accepting public funding for his campaign, must adhere to a roughly $25 million spending cap. Scott, on the other hand, who is self-financing his campaign, can spend as much as he chooses.
Scott can continue buying a ton of airtime on TV and radio. But McCollum has one tool Scott will not win: Jeb Bush's endorsement.
"Support my friend Bill McCollum, the kind of leader Florida needs," Bush said in a recent video. The former Governor holds a lot of clout with Florida Republicans.
Some polling indicates Bush has the highest approval rating of any Florida politician, and, if he had chosen to again run for Governor, he would have easily won.
McCollum says he is confident his campaign will prevail, despite the negative campaign. Ultimately, he predicts, voters will look past the mudslinging.
“They will see the issues and look for experience,†he said. "At the end of the day we will win because the public is going to want somebody who is a known, trusted conservative."
"I'll cut taxes to create jobs." Oh yeah, great idea, drive the state deeper in the whole.
Is it ever reasonable to cut taxes?
What about cutting spending?
No fan of Rick Scott here, but overtaxation is a burden on the economy.
I'd like to see someone propose a (FL) constitutional amendment eliminating property taxation.
I should not be leasing what I own from any government.
Get rid of property tax, hello serious income tax. Either way, I'm outta here in 2 weeks and if Rick Scott becomes governor, it'll be an even bigger blessing moving out west.
What services would you cut, or how would you replace the lost property tax revenue? And, please, "cut waste" doesn't cut it.
Quote from: buckethead on June 26, 2010, 02:28:50 PM
No fan of Rick Scott here, but overtaxation is a burden on the economy.
except that America's overall tax burden in 2009 was the lowest it had been since 1950.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 26, 2010, 06:24:07 PM
Quote from: buckethead on June 26, 2010, 02:28:50 PM
No fan of Rick Scott here, but overtaxation is a burden on the economy.
except that America's overall tax burden in 2009 was the lowest it had been since 1950.
Not that I doubt you word...
Rick Scott was an opportunist at HCA. Looks like he would be one as governor. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Democrats secretly hope he gets the Republican nomination. Would likely drive the sane electorate, i.e. mostly moderates, to the Democrats, unless they do the same with their nominee.
Extreme and grossly unqualified candidates from both parties tend to scare voters in the middle. It's why Crist has a chance by running in between Rubio and Meek.
The end of the Florida Mass Transit renaissance... Elect this guy and invest in BP stock!
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: stjr on June 26, 2010, 09:42:14 PM
Rick Scott was an opportunist at HCA. Looks like he would be one as governor. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Democrats secretly hope he gets the Republican nomination. Would likely drive the sane electorate, i.e. mostly moderates, to the Democrats, unless they do the same with their nominee.
Extreme and grossly unqualified candidates from both parties tend to scare voters in the middle. It's why Crist has a chance by running in between Rubio and Meek.
I'm not sure why I didn't get the HCA reference earlier.
It was one of my duties (while employed by the evil health insurance industry) to recruit providers into a PPO, HMO, and/or NPFFS network.
I had dealings with HCA, and learned that they want higher reimbursement rates than virtually any other health system, while providing the most mediocre facilities.
I'm not sure how Rick Scott plays into it all, but HCA facilities in Florida were once known as Columbia (Memorial Hospital on University BLVD), whose higher ups (Bill Frist?) had a run in with the Clinton regime.
Of course, Bill Frist is a very accomplished Heart Surgeon so what could he possibly know about health care or health insurance? ... I digress.
All tolled, HCA has a rocky history in the world of politics, whether deservedly or due to political vendetta, is for you to decide, and all you really need to know is which party the group is more affiliated with... right?
My guess is Rick Scott earned his stripes by getting what HCA wanted as well as positioning himself to be greatly rewarded. Corporate executives are rarely the benevolent philanthropists they try to portray themselves to be, but neither is anyone else.
I suppose it's time to actually do some research and get some facts. So far there have been few in this thread, other than comments on personalities and campaign ads.
I just want to ask him this: "What makes you think you're qualified to run for the highest office in the State of Florida?"
Quote from: reednavy on June 27, 2010, 10:45:14 AM
I just want to ask him this: "What makes you think you're qualified to run for the highest office in the State of Florida?"
Agreed. He needs to demonstrate some extensive experience and success as a community organizer before applying to such a lofty position.
I have always believed that there are 3 sides to every story but since Scott admitted to defrauding Medicare I don't think he should be given an opportunity to represent the same public that he once defrauded.
Quote from: Cricket on June 27, 2010, 04:23:47 PM
I have always believed that there are 3 sides to every story but since Scott admitted to defrauding Medicare I don't think he should be given an opportunity to represent the same public that he once defrauded.
There we go... Specifics.
Any sources to back that up?
Captain of the ship. "The buck stops here." etc.
If a CEO cannot see the details of how his corporation is so profitable, should we trust him to run our corporation? Has any corporation offered him a job since he was forced out of HCA?
Quote from: buckethead on June 27, 2010, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Cricket on June 27, 2010, 04:23:47 PM
I have always believed that there are 3 sides to every story but since Scott admitted to defrauding Medicare I don't think he should be given an opportunity to represent the same public that he once defrauded.
There we go... Specifics.
Any sources to back that up?
What better source than the horse's mouth.
Talking horses aside.
HCA, isn't that the owner of some of the worst hospitals in town?
HCA reminds me more of those creepy degree mill places rather then a good hospital center like Mayo. I like companies like Google and Microsoft and GE and Comcast! which talk about their research and advancement of their field. HCA... just look at their website http://www.hcahealthcare.com/
Quote from: buckethead on June 27, 2010, 07:42:55 PM
Talking horses aside.
There you go dissing the talking horse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLR4iZJLgc4
Quote from: Cricket on June 27, 2010, 07:01:48 PM
What better source than the horse's mouth.
Are you sure you have the right end of the horse? :D
Quote from: stjr on June 26, 2010, 09:42:14 PM
Rick Scott was an opportunist at HCA. Looks like he would be one as governor. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Democrats secretly hope he gets the Republican nomination. Would likely drive the sane electorate, i.e. mostly moderates, to the Democrats, unless they do the same with their nominee.
Same as when Katherine Harris was the nominee for Senate. She had no chance but won the nomination. The party tried to get Joe Scarbrough to run against her but he declined.
There is something about Rick Scott that I cant put my finger on..but I dont like it at all. When his commercials come on I turn the station.
Quote from: reednavy on May 25, 2010, 05:29:19 PM
I love this guy's commercials because they are just so stupid.
+1
Quote from: duvaldude08 on June 28, 2010, 09:08:48 AM
There is something about Rick Scott that I cant put my finger on..but I dont like it at all. When his commercials come on I turn the station.
Something just screams douchebag to me.
Arrogance.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D rick scott is a Joke and he should have done Prison Time for what he did. Voting for this Joker would be a lot like putting a Fox in Charge of the Hen House!
Quote from: reednavy on June 28, 2010, 10:44:38 AM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on June 28, 2010, 09:08:48 AM
There is something about Rick Scott that I cant put my finger on..but I dont like it at all. When his commercials come on I turn the station.
Something just screams douchebag to me.
But SINCERE douchebag! LOL!
That does it!
I'm voting for Rick Scott just because of the unsupported hearsay in this thread.
Not even 1 link to the numerous allegations.
Quote from: buckethead on June 28, 2010, 07:55:50 PM
That does it!
I'm voting for Rick Scott just because of the unsupported hearsay in this thread.
Not even 1 link to the numerous allegations.
As if we're supposed to give a damn and do the research for you, Google is your friend, see below.
http://politifact.com/florida/statements/2010/may/20/alex-sink/rick-scott-healthcare-ceo-faces-questions-a/
LOL.. I think his reputation speaks for itself.
I like how he says his hometown is Naples, yet records show he is from Illinois.
His latest add is has a great line: "I come from the business world." Well that should set off an alarm right away. Running the 4th most populous state, likely 3rd after this census, is a whole different beast than running a healthcare company. If that is what he thinks, then this state is kinda f*cked.
Quote from: reednavy on June 28, 2010, 09:02:40 PM
Quote from: buckethead on June 28, 2010, 07:55:50 PM
That does it!
I'm voting for Rick Scott just because of the unsupported hearsay in this thread.
Not even 1 link to the numerous allegations.
As if we're supposed to give a damn and do the research for you, Google is your friend, see below.
http://politifact.com/florida/statements/2010/may/20/alex-sink/rick-scott-healthcare-ceo-faces-questions-a/
You do care!
When making an allegation, or stating facts, sources (evidence) should be included. If it is hearsay, that fact should be mentioned.
Let's suppose my googler has E.D.
After reading the rather scathing essay, I am less convinced. The Columbia/HCA prosecution was a political witchhunt, according to a former Memorial Hospital executive I happen to be very familiar with.
An investigator can examine claims from any Hospital/facility/practice and produce evidence of "fraudulent" claims.
It appears HCAs biggest downfall was in owning Home Health Care providers which had been made illegal by congress. (Anti Kickback laws mentioned in the essay). Medicare laws and regulations are a shifting maze of political favors and personal interest. I would challenge the brightest legal minds to endeavor to master them. (ignorance/misinterpretation being no excuse in the eyes of the "law")
The more I read, the more I believe my friend's account of a Frist/Clinton Universal Healthcare showdown with Frist/ColumbiaHCA ending up on the losing side. Not the last corpse to be left in the wake of the Clinton regime.
All tolled, I still don't see any reason to vote for Scott, but this particular claim doesn't carry much weight IMO.
Scott is trying to buy the election by making McCullum look like an idiot, its working. No matter that Scott wants to run the state like a business....hmmm...where did we hear this in Duval County....forget the fact that he has no experience with public life. Not that McCullum is really coming out fighting, Sink is a disaster so far, her campaign is as exciting as looking at old graffitti on PS4.
I wouldn't underestimate Sink. She is smart, savvy, and going to appeal to a lot of moderates and women. If Mr. Right, Rick Scott, represents the Republicans, Sink will fare far better than against McCollum. Sink will also benefit from McCollum and Scott "sinking" each other. ;) Sink probably won't come into focus until the general campaign.
Here's the biggest question here. What happens if Rick Scott wins? What would you guys do? What would happen to this state?
Almost every politician and every smart person and the majority of armchair politicians I find know there's something very wrong with this guy.
However, there are people I know who don't belong to the above who well, love the guy. He's telling them everything they want to hear and they won't listen to anything else except what they want to hear. (Unless Alex Sink starts talking about rounding up every "illegal" and tossing them out of the country.)
Quote from: cityimrov on June 30, 2010, 04:02:41 PM
Here's the biggest question here. What happens if Rick Scott wins? What would you guys do? What would happen to this state?
Almost every politician and every smart person and the majority of armchair politicians I find know there's something very wrong with this guy.
However, there are people I know who don't belong to the above who well, love the guy. He's telling them everything they want to hear and they won't listen to anything else except what they want to hear. (Unless Alex Sink starts talking about rounding up every "illegal" and tossing them out of the country.)
It will be no different than when Katherine Harris won the Republican nomination and handed Bill Nelson a victory. Rick Scott might be able to fool enough people in the primary but he is not winning the general election.
Sink is taking the right approach right now, sit back and watch Scott and McCollum bash each other into the earth. People are honestly tired of attack politics and want to hear their plan, and so far, Rick Scott has only said cut taxes to create jobs and have some form of an illegal immigration bill put up. Ok Rick, we get it already, now tell us what else you plan on doing. I've said it before, what makes him think that because he was a CEO with ZERO political background that it makes him a good candidate for governor? So far, he has only campaigned in wealthy areas like Ponte Vedra, Naples, and other locations. He has yet to even try and go to the average Floridian in places like Marianna and Leesburg, or the farmer in either Hastings or Okeechobee County. Seriously this guy just screams arrogant douche that cares only about his wealthy friends and trying to run this state like a multi-billion dollar corporation. It is funny that he is trying to sweep the HCA thing under the rug, bitch, it is a HUGE deal!
I agree with the concensus......it (the HCA issue) is a big deal and he has no practical experience at government! I have allready seen what happens when a "City is going to be run like a business" and am not impressed one bit! We don't need another business person (so called) trying to run things, we need someone with a vision and a plan............not to mention some thoughts on how to fund it!
So what happens if Rick Scott really does wins?
Quote from: cityimrov on July 03, 2010, 05:40:50 PM
So what happens if Rick Scott really does wins?
Well, he won the GOP nomination. Not surprisingly, his numbers in Duval county were extremely strong.
This registered R has decided a vote for Rick Scott is out of the question. The alternatives weren't too appealing either.
Alex Sink seems to be a bit of an insider as well, but I guess I need to do some research.
QuoteThis registered R has decided a vote for Rick Scott is out of the question. The alternatives weren't too appealing either.
Same here. I am so disgusted with the current state of politics as a whole... I declined to vote for the first time in a very long time. Looks like I am unlikely to vote in November either... >:(
You should at least write in a fictitious name. Let them know they have lost your vote.
Why? It would show that I cared enough to show up. I do not anymore. I seem to have not much in common with Democrats... same with Republicans...ugh...
Democrats/Replublicans
Same Crap/Different pile.
Hopefully that mindset does not lead to that crook Rick Scott getting elected governor of this fine state. He should be in jail for what he did.
It just shows that the mindset of people like us here on MJ doesn't translate to the mindset of the general population. Elections are not won, they are bought and the only winners are the media outlets. The networks had their biggest paydays in this election. There are exceptions though like Meek but that was because Greene was so far out in left field even with his big bucks. We think we have the best electoral system in the world when it may be all a sham. Politicians can be notoriously bad and still get elected. Never overestimate the analytical intelligence of people when it comes to slick ads and repetitive bullshit on the airwaves.
Quote from: buckethead on June 27, 2010, 09:52:39 AM
Of course, Bill Frist is a very accomplished Heart Surgeon so what could he possibly know about health care or health insurance?
LOL. Probably about as much as he knows about persistent vegetative states:
QuoteBill Frist (R-Tenn.), a renowned heart surgeon before becoming Senate majority leader, went to the floor late Thursday night for the second time in 12 hours to argue that Florida doctors had erred in saying Terri Schiavo is in a "persistent vegetative state."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48119-2005Mar18.html
Demagoguery does not make the man an idiot. He was using it to push an agenda. :OH MY!:
Quote from: buckethead on August 25, 2010, 02:50:18 PM
Demagoguery does not make the man an idiot. He was using it to push an agenda. :OH MY!:
And his views on health care and health insurance weren't pushing an agenda?
No more than any other demagogue. In fact, I'd bet he intended to be a champion/advocate/demagogue advancing an agenda for health care providers, rather than insurers as Dear Leader did.
Quote from: buckethead on August 25, 2010, 03:03:45 PM
I'd bet he intended to be a champion/advocate/demagogue advancing an agenda for health care providers, rather than insurers
I'm sure you're right, since he received $1,289,685 from the health care providers and only $247,346 from the insurers.
http://www.opensecrets.org/
Quote from: buckethead on August 25, 2010, 03:03:45 PM
No more than any other demagogue. In fact, I'd bet he intended to be a champion/advocate/demagogue advancing an agenda for health care providers, rather than insurers as Dear Leader did.
I wouldn't mind if he championed heath-care providers like Cleveland, Mayo, Johns Hopkins, or even Shands. Creating a hospital system like that in the State of Florida would turn this state into the medical research capital of the world. It would be like having Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Princeton move in here. Imagine the PR if people like the Pope or Nelson Mandela or the President of Russia or some famous people came here for treatment. I mean these hospitals work on trying to find cures for the next diseases in the world. They also attract the best of the best of doctors, researchers, scientists - even nurses, aids, and management!
Now if he was championing McDonald-style health care here (like for example, HSA) then I would be very very afraid. In those places cost control, turnover at any cost, and profit is king. That would be like attracting more Phoenix, ITT Tech, DeVry, Apollo, and other shady schools to move in here.
A lying thief for a governor....hm mm sounds like Florida...to be such an destination state we sure have put out some of the worst political characters. It just amazes me how right wing conservative this state is. They'll vote in a poisonous snake if it had a bunch of money and was against what they were told to hate. This man took what wasn't his and alot of it...and I'll bet you every right wing crazy is going to be out to get him elected just so a democrate wont get it...even if that democrat would be an awesome gov...I'm just boggled sometimes...well...I'm gonna go pick some beans...have a good afternoon.
Quote from: CS Foltz on June 30, 2010, 08:06:28 PM
I have allready seen what happens when a "City is going to be run like a business" and am not impressed one bit!
Don't forget that this was the CEO President George W. Bush's governing philosophy as well. And we see how that worked out...
Stephen is right. Sink will be our next governor. Even if Scott wins, we survived Claude Kirk and will survive him. Kirk was a crazy as a sprayed roach.
Quote from: stephendare on August 25, 2010, 12:33:25 PM
Alot of republicans stayed home on this one, they can't stomach more of the same that destroyed the national party. Even more of them will stay home on Election Day.
That would be describe me to a tee. I didn't vote in the primary yesterday b/c neither Republican candidate amounted to a hill of beans IMO.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on May 13, 2010, 06:21:20 PM
You don't have to vote for a rep or a dem. http://www.johnwayne4gov.com
Biznump
Get past the unfortunate name and read the page. I think you'll find some things you'll like.
Voting libertarian may indeed be a vote for Sink. It's also a message to the other major party.
I didn't vote for McCain, which was a defacto vote for Obama. I don't regret not voting McCain. I also don't regret voting.
"Libertarianism is basically the Marxism of the Right. If Marxism is the delusion that one can run society purely on altruism and collectivism, then libertarianism is the mirror-image delusion that one can run it purely on selfishness and individualism." -Robert Locke, The American Conservative
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2005/mar/14/00017/
Whatever happened to Bud Chiles?
Interesting, but any pure ideology is tyrannical when applied as an absolute. I'm not surprised you are opposed to libertarian ideals.
Quote from: buckethead on August 25, 2010, 04:43:38 PM
I'm not surprised you are opposed to libertarian ideals.
Ideals, maybe, but not all of their
ideas.
Therein lies the problem with any political philosophy when crouched in" absolute" terms! Idea's can come from anywhere and should be viewed with a jaundiced eye!
Quote from: cityimrov on August 25, 2010, 04:42:25 PM
Whatever happened to Bud Chiles?
he is running as an independent
I heard this as hearsay from someone so I haven't verified this.
Several years ago, France elected a very smart socialist for President. This president, during his tenure, he implemented some of the most conservative and libertarian laws during his tenure. Why? Is he a sell out? During that time - France was heading toward bankruptcy due to various social programs overburdening the government. This President figured out that whatever France was doing before didn't work. So he figured out something which worked. By figuring out what worked, he saved France from financial collapse.
I think his name was Mitterrand and this story isn't verified by me as true but the idea behind it makes sense to me.
If I was a conservative, I would want a smart genuine honorable liberal as my leader. If I was a liberal, I would want a smart genuine honorable conservative as my leader. Why? Because true, real smart people realize when their ideas aren't working!! They change minds on those ideas and try to find out what actually works to fix the problem!
Quote from: buckethead on August 25, 2010, 09:34:32 AM
This registered R has decided a vote for Rick Scott is out of the question. The alternatives weren't too appealing either.
Alex Sink seems to be a bit of an insider as well, but I guess I need to do some research.
Buckethead, check her out and you may be surprised. She's a fiscal conservative with impressive business experience/expertise who never held or ran for public office before her successful campaign to become Florida's Chief Financial Officer. I believe she'll take Florida in the right direction and I know a lot of prominent Republicans who agree.
She also has a very interesting family history.....I certainly hope she'll join her relatives in the Guiness Book as first female governor of Florida!
Don't despair y'all, if SCOTT get's elected I've got family at Avianca and can easily arrange a charter flight to Bogota, Medellin or Cartegena. Let me know if you might be interested in Ocklawaha's Ark.
OCKLAWAHA
I am still trying to figure out one substantive thing to come from Rick Scott's mouth. He is selling fluff and it shows how much of our electorate is seduced by overly simplistic thinking. Separately, we live in a global economy and there isn't much any governor of Florida can do to influence what happens in this state job-wise when faced with a tsunami recession created by factors beyond the State's control. Any candidate who promises to deliver significant jobs is overselling their powers.
The good thing is that only about 6 to 8%, at best, of all registered voters actually voted this guy into the GOP nomination. That means up to 90+% may still deny him the job. We can only hope.
Those who may not be inclined to support a Democrat still need to consider what damage Scott can do to this state if elected and at least consider a defensive vote to keep him out of office. YOUR VOTE DOES COUNT. Failure to use it is to let your fellow (and maybe less informed) voters decide for you. While none of the options may be optimal, we still have a responsibility to pick the best option available.
Could we setup a voting system where we don't have to vote for anyone if we do not like the candidates, but instead of our vote not counting, we could add a negative vote to 1 candidate?
A governor absolutely CAN affect economic development and jobs. SC Governor Carroll Campbell wrote the deal that landed the BMW plant on a napkin while entertaining the BMW Chairman at the Governor's Mansion pool. He was deeply involved in every detail of the process that landed that palnt and several others. Today that plant employs 5,500 and it's suppliers employ about 25,000.
Without BMW there would be not be an ICAR campus devoted to Auto Research. It is still in the early stages, but already boasts about 700 jobs, with several more projects in the pipeline, even in this recession . The average wages at ICAR are about 400% of the area average.
Governors can also bring a state a bad name (ie Mark Sanford, Blago).
Quote from: jandar on August 26, 2010, 08:38:08 AM
Could we setup a voting system where we don't have to vote for anyone if we do not like the candidates, but instead of our vote not counting, we could add a negative vote to 1 candidate?
Voters should be able to choose "None of the above" and if "None of the above" gets the most votes the election should be done over again with different candidates.
Quote from: finehoe on August 25, 2010, 04:41:32 PM
"Libertarianism is basically the Marxism of the Right. If Marxism is the delusion that one can run society purely on altruism and collectivism, then libertarianism is the mirror-image delusion that one can run it purely on selfishness and individualism." -Robert Locke, The American Conservative
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2005/mar/14/00017/
This shows the woeful inadequacy of the linear political spectrum which has Marxism on the extreme left and fascism on the extreme right. Draw a third axis from the center of that line with anarchy at the extreme end and libertarians would be somewhere along it.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on August 26, 2010, 06:43:09 PM
Quote from: jandar on August 26, 2010, 08:38:08 AM
Could we setup a voting system where we don't have to vote for anyone if we do not like the candidates, but instead of our vote not counting, we could add a negative vote to 1 candidate?
Voters should be able to choose "None of the above" and if "None of the above" gets the most votes the election should be done over again with different candidates.
Nevada has had this in place for many years. I don't think 'None of These' has ever won though.
It is too bad "Write In's" are not allowed! If enough votes were counted for Mickey Mouse/none of the above......it would be nice to have another election...........but when you have the choice between a cup cake or a slice of pie............where is the choice?
I don't think even write in's will stop someone like Rick Scott from being governor. I forgot the link to these results so I'm just using my memory. If I remember the map correctly, I think 55% of Duval County GOPers voted for Scott. I believe it was over 60% in Clay. Some panhandle counties gave him over 70% of the vote. From these results, it looks like Jacksonville will be Rick Scott's HQ for finding people willing to campaign, give money, and just support him. The only place were McCollum got major support is South Florida where over 60% of the GOP voted for him over there.
Even though most of this message board doesn't like him, the rest of the city has basically thrown their support for Rick Scott as governor for our state. I think his main theme of running the state as a business has won over most the people here in Jacksonville (well, the GOP side of Jacksonville at least).
Quote from: cityimrov on August 31, 2010, 03:50:15 PM
I think his main theme of running the state as a business has won over most the people here in Jacksonville (well, the GOP side of Jacksonville at least).
Maybe $50 million of superficial brainwashing ads for the weak sheep didn't hurt either? :D
Why is it so quiet here about the governor's race? News is reporting polls are saying it's going to be a tight race.
Only people making out right now are the Advertising Agency's!
Both of the candidates are awful choices. Florida will not be a winner from this election. This creates apathy. Is there really no one better? Most of the political candidates every level leave a lot to be desired. Keep in mind our best president over the last 3 decades was impeached. Think about that for a moment and then tell me if that explains how we got here.
Quote from: St. Auggie on October 10, 2010, 07:58:42 PM
Both of the candidates are awful choices. Florida will not be a winner from this election. This creates apathy. Is there really no one better? Most of the political candidates every level leave a lot to be desired. Keep in mind our best president over the last 3 decades was impeached. Think about that for a moment and then tell me if that explains how we got here.
There's always better people but for the most part they don't want to run or if they do run they don't get pass the primaries.
QuoteI think his main theme of running the state as a business has won over most the people here in Jacksonville (well, the GOP side of Jacksonville at least).
Peyton, someone with virtually no experience in government (like Rick Scott), ran on that platform 8 years ago. How did that work out?
Quote from: St. Auggie on October 10, 2010, 07:58:42 PM
Both of the candidates are awful choices. Florida will not be a winner from this election. This creates apathy. Is there really no one better? Most of the political candidates every level leave a lot to be desired. Keep in mind our best president over the last 3 decades was impeached. Think about that for a moment and then tell me if that explains how we got here.
Also keep in mind that we elected one of our worst presidents in decades, not once but TWICE. Our leaders are not elected on the basis of who we consider the best qualified. Money, connections, and skilled campaigning are all that count. Scott will most likely be the next gov of Florida and we will all be sitting here wondering how the hell did that happen.
Quote from: St. Auggie on October 10, 2010, 07:58:42 PM
Both of the candidates are awful choices. Florida will not be a winner from this election. This creates apathy. Is there really no one better? Most of the political candidates every level leave a lot to be desired. Keep in mind our best president over the last 3 decades was impeached. Think about that for a moment and then tell me if that explains how we got here.
The 'pox on both of your houses' attitude reminds me of the Richard Pryor film, "Brewster's Millions." While it would be great to have a "None of the Above" option on your ballots, our rising apathy does nothing to fix the root problems of our system.
Those who have good ideas for good government are not going to try to run for office. It is far too expensive and negative of an atmosphere for them. And, when we turn our backs on the political process, our passive aggressive approach to politics doesn't prevail. We just happen to give more power to those who are willing to hold their noses and participate.
Seems like we are all in agreement. The best candidates do not run for many different reasons. So how do you change the culture/enviroment to get the best involved? Obviously a multiyear/decade fix, but ya gotta start somewhere...
^^ To answer your question St Auggie, when negative ads stop working, they will stop running.
Start asking candidates to back up the claims in their negative ads, and vote against the ones you do them the most. That is the best place to start.
Quote from: St. Auggie on October 10, 2010, 07:58:42 PM
Both of the candidates are awful choices. Florida will not be a winner from this election. This creates apathy. Is there really no one better? Most of the political candidates every level leave a lot to be desired. Keep in mind our best president over the last 3 decades was impeached. Think about that for a moment and then tell me if that explains how we got here.
Both candidates? Below are all the candidates on the ballot:
Rick Scott (R)
Health Care Executive, Attorney & Navy Veteran
& Jennifer Carroll (R)
State Rep. & Retired Navy Officer
Alex Sink (D)
State CFO & Ex-Bank President
& Rod Smith (D)
Ex-State Sen., Ex-State Attorney & '06 Gov. Candidate
Peter Allen (Independence Party)
Electrical Contractor & State Party Co-Founder
& John Zanni (Independence Party)
Locksmith & State Party Co-Founder
John Wayne Smith (Libertarian)
Libertarian Activist, Awning Installer, Army Veteran
& J.J. McCurry (Libertarian)
State Party Chair & '08 Orange County Soil and Water Commission Candidate
Michael Arth (Independent)
Landscape/Urban Designer & Home Builder
& Al Krulick (Independent)
Investment Banker, Writer, Community Activist & '96/'98 US Rep. Candidate
Daniel Imperato (Independent)
Businessman & '08 Presidential Candidate
& Runningmate Not Yet Named
Farid Khavari (Independent)
Businessman & Economist
& Darcy Richardson (Independent)
Historian, Author, Financial Consultant & '88 US Sen. Candidate
C.C. Reed (Independent)
Businessman
& Larry Waldo Sr. (Independent)
Josue Larose (Write-In)
Realtor, Businessman
& Runningmate Not Yet Named
Quote from: cityimrov on August 31, 2010, 03:50:15 PM
I don't think even write in's will stop someone like Rick Scott from being governor. I forgot the link to these results so I'm just using my memory. If I remember the map correctly, I think 55% of Duval County GOPers voted for Scott. I believe it was over 60% in Clay. Some panhandle counties gave him over 70% of the vote. From these results, it looks like Jacksonville will be Rick Scott's HQ for finding people willing to campaign, give money, and just support him. The only place were McCollum got major support is South Florida where over 60% of the GOP voted for him over there.
Even though most of this message board doesn't like him, the rest of the city has basically thrown their support for Rick Scott as governor for our state. I think his main theme of running the state as a business has won over most the people here in Jacksonville (well, the GOP side of Jacksonville at least).
Wonderful. So if he runs it like he ran his own business, the taxpayers will get fleeced for billions. Sweet.
Alex Sink's new ad is very good, showing how he always runs away from the press or refuses to answer any questions outside of his normal crap he spews.
If the image of his face at the end of that ad it supposed to creep the hell out of me, mission accomplished.
Sink is ahead by 17 points among independents in the latest polling.
Quote from: copperfiend on October 12, 2010, 03:26:01 PM
Sink is ahead by 17 points among independents in the latest polling.
The Independents will be the key on this .....methinks!
Ladies and Gentlemen!
I give you...
your new Governor...
without further ado...
Ladies and Gentlemen....
RICK SCOTT!
I have no doubt. America loves a scoundrel.
Both are spewing bile, but I can say the bile being spewed on Sink is mostly complete BS. The references to "her company" (which was not HERS at all) being investigated is complete BS, yes there is/was an investigation of a company the company she works for purchased (CW). But the add is VERY misleading, like it was her decisions that caused the issue. I do not think there is anyone decent to vote for personally. I hate negative adds and wish they would just talk about what they can do not about how much the other candidates suck.
Read today's Jacksonville paper about comments against Scott from Nancy Argenziano who resigned from the PSC to speak her mind freely. She minces no words.
Three words:
John Wayne Smith
Quote from: Jumpinjack on October 13, 2010, 08:00:48 AM
Read today's Jacksonville paper about comments against Scott from Nancy Argenziano who resigned from the PSC to speak her mind freely. She minces no words.
It should be pointed out Nancy Argenziano is a registered republican also.
Uptown, I know Alex Sink personally and can assure you that her character is beyond reproach. She has tremendous integrity, extensive business experience and fabulous ideas.
Please, Florida - prove to the rest of the country that we are not a state full of the kind of people who would elect someone like Rick Scott to be our governor! We are better than that.
Forgive me if this has been covered already, but what are Scott and Sink's stand on Mass Transit, including High-Speed Rail. Which one seems to 'get it' on urban issues?
Don't know about Sink but here's what Rick Scott said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/us/05rail.html
QuoteIn Florida, Bettina Inclán, a spokeswoman for Mr. Scott, the Republican candidate, noted that the state already paid to operate a commuter rail system and added that “we cannot afford to be subsidizing the bullet train as well.â€
Quote from: Jumpinjack on October 13, 2010, 08:00:48 AM
Read today's Jacksonville paper about comments against Scott from Nancy Argenziano who resigned from the PSC to speak her mind freely. She minces no words.
I can't find the story, got a link?
Here's the story from the Tallahassee Democrat. I couldn't find it on the T-U website.
QuoteTuesday, October 12, 2010
Argenziano quits Florida PSC to support Alex Sink for governor
Nancy Argenziano announced Tuesday she is resigning from the Florida Public Service Commission to support Democrat Alex Sink in her race against Republican Rick Scott for governor.
Argenziano -- who was elected as a Republican state senator -- told reporters she is resigning to speak out against what she considers to be a "catastrophe" facing the state if Scott is elected. State law prohibits commissioners from endorsing or supporting political candidates and causes, she said.
If Scott is elected, Argenziano said there would be no balance of power or check on the Republican-led Legislature. And she said Scott was scheming to raise electric rates on residential customers effectively by seeking to lower commercial rates and increase utilities' earnings.
"I do not know that I can effectively portray the immensity of the danger of a marriage between the clowns, cowboys and crooks of the current Republican-led state Legislature and Rick "the Fifth Amendment" Scott," she told reporters, reading from a prepared statement.
Argenziano was scheduled to leave office in January because she was passed over for re-appointment by the PSC Nominating Council in June. But she said her speaking out is not because of "sour grapes," rather she is angry at the corruption that she sees with the influence of utilities over the Legislature and the PSC.
Scott campaign spokesman Joe Kildea responded to Argenziano's endorsement by saying, "It's amazing that anyone would publicly support CFO Sink as reports are simultaneously emerging about her authorizing felons to work in the insurance field and access the sensitive and personal information of Floridians."
The Sink campaign issued a statement saying, "Alex Sink is proud to receive the endorsement of a proven consumer champion with a record of standing up for Floridians." Sink herself told reporters that the authorizing of people to work in insurance was required by state law.
Argenziano spoke to reporters for 45 minutes, firing criticism at, among others, the Republican Party of Florida, Senate President Jeff Atwater, incoming Senate President Mike Haridopolos, PSC Commissioner Lisa Edgar and Sen. Mike Bennett, R-Bradenton and chairman of the PSC Nominating Council.
A spokesman for the Republican Party of Florida had no immediate comment nor did a spokesman for Atwater. Haridopolos declined to comment through a spokesman in the Senate president's office.
Later Tuesday, Argenziano said she also was endorsing "for equally good reasons" Gov. Charlie Crist, running as an independent for U.S. Senate, along with Democrats Dan Gelber for attorney general and Loranne Ausley for state chief financial officer.
Argenziano pointed out that she was giving up three months of her $130,036 annual salary to speak out against Scott and the Legislature. She said she will return to her home in Citrus County but added that she has no employment plans.
A spokesman for Crist said the PSC Nominating Council would have to recommend a replacement for the remainder of Argenziano's term. Julie I. Brown, an associate legal counsel for the First American Corp., was named by Crist last month to fill Argenziano's seat in January when her term was set to expire.
(Story provided by the Florida Tribune. Story and photo copyrighted by Bruce Ritchie and FloridaEnvironments.com
Thanks for the information Jumpinjack! Just one more nail in his coffin I am thinking...............could be wrong, been wrong before but on this one, I am calling it right.............Scott is not the one!
What do you think the chances of Rick Scott winning?
From what I've seen, all the people in the red counties are very motivated to go to the polls in droves - they will have a strong showing. How about the moderates and blue counties, are they going to have a strong showing too?
I have no idea, I'm still waiting for my absentee ballot!
reednavy...........the missus got hers about 2 weeks ago, so you might want to look into it unless your planning on going to the polls!
No way in hell am I driving 600 miles to vote. I'll be calling the Elections Office tomorrow morning and get it straightened out. I will do what it takes to make sure Sink and Crist get my vote.
People need to pay attention to what Rick Scott is saying - and not saying - in this race. I was talking to a friend who worked for the State who was thinking about voting for Scott (he usually votes the Republican ticket). I don't know why any State employee would vote Scott for Governor, with his promise to reduce the number of state employees. If a state worker votes for Scott, they must agree there are too many state employees. The only logical thing for them to do is resign - and thus reduce the burden on state taxpayers. To do otherwise is hypocritical and arrogant - thinking they are so important that "they" won't be part of the purge...
When I put it like that, he agreed to look into Scott's comments about the budget and State employees. This knee-jerk "I'm a Republican so I'm voting for Scott" stuff is not in the longterm best interests of our state...
I'm a republican and I'm voting for Sink. Scott is as corrupt as any I've seen. It's hard to find an objective opinion on his actual policies because his side has spent so much money on ads and propaganda.
Florida has one of the lowest number of state workers per population. And Scott wants to cut it even more. Doesn't make sense.
Quote from: Live_Oak on October 21, 2010, 10:23:18 AM
Florida has one of the lowest number of state workers per population. And Scott wants to cut it even more. Doesn't make sense.
actually we are THE lowest
hee's a propoaganda website mentioned during last night's debate....the deposition video is disturbing on many levels.
http://www.whatisrickscotthiding.com/
Quote from: cityimrov on October 17, 2010, 07:07:26 PM
What do you think the chances of Rick Scott winning?
The latest polling still has Scott in the lead. It will be a dark day in this wonderful state's history if that crook is elected governor.
Quote from: copperfiend on October 21, 2010, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: cityimrov on October 17, 2010, 07:07:26 PM
What do you think the chances of Rick Scott winning?
The latest polling still has Scott in the lead. It will be a dark day in this wonderful state's history if that crook is elected governor.
I think he is going to win...
I will not be voting for him....don't know about the rest of yall!
I voted for Daniel Imperato.
The choice I wanted was not there. None of the above.
Quote from: JC on October 21, 2010, 11:54:34 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on October 21, 2010, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: cityimrov on October 17, 2010, 07:07:26 PM
What do you think the chances of Rick Scott winning?
The latest polling still has Scott in the lead. It will be a dark day in this wonderful state's history if that crook is elected governor.
I think he is going to win...
The sad part about the polling is Sink is leading among 'registered' voters but Scott is ahead among 'likely' voters.
The lead between Sink and Scott has flipped back and forth several times. All of the polling that I have seen in the last month, including the ones with Sink leading, have been 'likely voters' only.
Based on an average of all polls taken, Sink has a 1.2% lead.
This one is absolutely a toss-up.
Polls really mean nothing in the grand scheme of things, look how many were wrong in the primaries across the country.
Wait for it...... :o
Quote from: copperfiend on October 21, 2010, 12:34:15 PM
Quote from: JC on October 21, 2010, 11:54:34 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on October 21, 2010, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: cityimrov on October 17, 2010, 07:07:26 PM
What do you think the chances of Rick Scott winning?
The latest polling still has Scott in the lead. It will be a dark day in this wonderful state's history if that crook is elected governor.
I think he is going to win...
The sad part about the polling is Sink is leading among 'registered' voters but Scott is ahead among 'likely' voters.
I am pretty sure he will ride the "populist" wave of tea party support all the way to Tallahassee.
If Scott gets elected it will provide scary evidence that a Hitler being put into power is still possible. Hitler was elected over single mindedness about jobs and the economy, all else be damned. Voters ignored all the other "warning signs" about how dangerous he was. With Scott, if voters favor him strictly because he promises jobs at all costs, they may be electing someone off the deep end in every other regard. Expect them to be surprised if he gets into office just how wacko he might get.
I might add it's hard enough for a president to "control" the economy and "create jobs". I really don't think the governor has that much influence. All these promises about jobs come down to whether a governor has the good or bad fortune of being in office during a swing in our economic fortunes for which the governor has no control over. It's all just rhetoric.
If anything, if Scott goes wacko, he will drive away jobs, economy up or down. Who wants to be associated with a scoundrel?
Quote from: Sportmotor on May 13, 2010, 06:06:30 PM
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
I like that answer :)
What does Rick Scott really want? What is his true agenda?
He's obviously basing his entire platform on the most popular poll topics and that's how he's getting ahead. However, his platform probably isn't his true agenda.
From what I can see though, he's going to give people exactly what they want. He'll sign the bills (immigration, tax cuts, etc) needed to keep his popularity up regardless if it helps Florida out long term or is even realistic. (i.e. If the people demand gold paved streets and a major cut in taxes and a bill reaches his desk asking for that, he might consider signing it!)
However, from what I can gander, he's trying to do something else that's he's not telling anyone about. What is it? Nobody spends this much personal money just to be a carbon copy of the polls. What's he up to?
Unfortunately, I get this feeling we're going to find out 5 years later what that is and it's probably not going to be pretty (though there is a small chance he could be planning to make FL the best state in the union).
I think he really wants to implement a State Income tax.
It's the only fair thing to do.
SOCIAL JUSTICE NOW!
Gah, sounds worse than a career politician in that video. Surprised he just didn't keep saying "I plead the fifth"....
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Sink just conceded.
This just sucks.
This is going to be an interesting/entertaining 4-8 years!
vive la revolution!
Quote from: copperfiend on November 03, 2010, 11:14:28 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Sink just conceded.
I don't know whether to scream or cry :(
Why not both?
Rick Scott will be entering the mansion on thin ice with almost no margin for error or any controversy to arise. The eyes of Florida will be on his back every single second until he leaves.
Quote from: cityimrov on November 03, 2010, 12:25:01 PM
This is going to be an interesting/entertaining 4-8 years!
If it's 8 years, I am moving to Vermont.
Quote from: copperfiend on November 03, 2010, 01:16:49 PM
Quote from: cityimrov on November 03, 2010, 12:25:01 PM
This is going to be an interesting/entertaining 4-8 years!
If it's 8 years, I am moving to Vermont.
Vermont? Please Im moving to south africia to join my ancestors. There will be no worries just sing, dance and chase lions all day. Anything to get away from Rick Scott! LMAO
duvaldude08 & copperfiend ...call me, I will help you pack! Give the guy a chance.
Quote from: dganson on November 03, 2010, 02:14:35 PM
duvaldude08 & copperfiend ...call me, I will help you pack! Give the guy a chance.
I agree we do not want to descend into the same name calling and obstructionist attitude the republicans took when the president was elected.
I'm just amazed at how lazy my fellow dems are....just plain laziness...we all just need to get ready for a good screwing from this guy and i'll blame the republicans and thier ilk for the entire deeeesaster. I wish for everything he tries to fail..just like he wished upon our president...down with the gov of the state of florida...i can't wait to see him screw this state....
Sink's "F" rating from the NRA didn't help her prospects.
It does not take much to garner a poor profile rating from the NRA.
One can be an avid,active law abiding gun owner or even "pro gun" in philosophy save, for instance,concerns over Gun Show Loophole and you are deemed off target by the NRA.
Charlie Christ enjoyed a strong "Pro Gun" endorsement when running for Governor.In campaign pieces he was pictured with a venerable bread & butter friendly field Remington Model 870 Shotgun slung over his shoulder.(Rather than say-the evil AK 47 style..............)
John Kerry did the same thing in his Presidential bid-in fact he held an 870 high over his head at the Remington factory but only republicans get to have traction on this type of stuff.
Jeb Bush was decidedly non outdoorsy but kept gun folk and the closely related outdoor/conservation constituency calm.
There was an unfounded hysterical rush to gun purchases as a result of the Obama Presidential victory.One notable gun ban threat projected to a wide audience was in fact nothing other than the proceedings from a Committee hearing years before.It took months for the truth to emerge.
Few or none of the Democrats gaining office in the past few years did so on an anti gun platform.
Perhaps the biggest danger from guns stems not so much from lawful gun possession and use,or even abuse but rather from the political fallout generated elsewhere- as in Sink's loss by thin margin.
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 03, 2010, 02:18:50 PM
Quote from: dganson on November 03, 2010, 02:14:35 PM
duvaldude08 & copperfiend ...call me, I will help you pack! Give the guy a chance.
I agree we do not want to descend into the same name calling and obstructionist attitude the republicans took when the president was elected.
Why not? That is what the republicans have done every time a Democrat gets into office and look what that gets them...put back into office to screw things up that the Dems tried to fix. MSNBC watches are left, but they are not blind followers that Faux News has. The republicans can always run a good campaign, but they are like a dog chasing a car...now that I got it, what do I do?
Quote from: Garden guy on November 03, 2010, 02:46:30 PM
I'm just amazed at how lazy my fellow dems are....just plain laziness...we all just need to get ready for a good screwing from this guy and i'll blame the republicans and thier ilk for the entire deeeesaster. I wish for everything he tries to fail..just like he wished upon our president...down with the gov of the state of florida...i can't wait to see him screw this state....
You should here whats being said about the bubba Georgia elected. Yesterday was just weird. Fox news is the media.
it is funny reading all these comments! bahahahaha. Fox News is the devil....hahaha
Quote from: cityimrov on November 03, 2010, 12:25:01 PM
This is going to be an interesting/entertaining 4-8 years!
Save save save!! Save your money!! No telling whats going to happen now.
Already,perhaps due to the fact that most "wins" have been only by thin margins.Many loyal Republicans and 'conservatives' voted for Sink- the first "D" to get their vote in a looooong time
Changing faces will not address the systemic problems and already now the call for 'compromise.Selfishly I say let the new faces have it all for a couple of years however the damage could be untold and besides,the power behind the new faces will no doubt manage to deflect responsibility in the comming years.Why not??
Quote from: north miami on November 03, 2010, 03:14:30 PM
Sink's "F" rating from the NRA didn't help her prospects.
It does not take much to garner a poor profile rating from the NRA.
One can be an avid,active law abiding gun owner or even "pro gun" in philosophy save, for instance,concerns over Gun Show Loophole and you are deemed off target by the NRA.
Charlie Christ enjoyed a strong "Pro Gun" endorsement when running for Governor.In campaign pieces he was pictured with a venerable bread & butter friendly field Remington Model 870 Shotgun slung over his shoulder.(Rather than say-the evil AK 47 style..............)
John Kerry did the same thing in his Presidential bid-in fact he held an 870 high over his head at the Remington factory but only republicans get to have traction on this type of stuff.
Jeb Bush was decidedly non outdoorsy but kept gun folk and the closely related outdoor/conservation constituency calm.
There was an unfounded hysterical rush to gun purchases as a result of the Obama Presidential victory.One notable gun ban threat projected to a wide audience was in fact nothing other than the proceedings from a Committee hearing years before.It took months for the truth to emerge.
Few or none of the Democrats gaining office in the past few years did so on an anti gun platform.
Perhaps the biggest danger from guns stems not so much from lawful gun possession and use,or even abuse but rather from the political fallout generated elsewhere- as in Sink's loss by thin margin.
Perhaps their voting record had something to do with it.....
Scott has no, zero, nada experience in government or politics. He's either going to be owned by Thrasher and that crowd or try to run things like a mega-corporation which will get him exactly no where.
Going to be an "interesting" few years. Like the Chinese curse.
Quote from: stjr on October 23, 2010, 12:08:48 AM
If Scott gets elected it will provide scary evidence that a Hitler being put into power is still possible. Hitler was elected over single mindedness about jobs and the economy, all else be damned. Voters ignored all the other "warning signs" about how dangerous he was. With Scott, if voters favor him strictly because he promises jobs at all costs, they may be electing someone off the deep end in every other regard. Expect them to be surprised if he gets into office just how wacko he might get.
I might add it's hard enough for a president to "control" the economy and "create jobs". I really don't think the governor has that much influence. All these promises about jobs come down to whether a governor has the good or bad fortune of being in office during a swing in our economic fortunes for which the governor has no control over. It's all just rhetoric.
If anything, if Scott goes wacko, he will drive away jobs, economy up or down. Who wants to be associated with a scoundrel?
Not another one of those Hitler diatribes. No matter how much of a crook Rick Scott, he does not approach Hitler levels. Hitler killed 6 million people, Rick Scott was strictly financial corruption and greed. This kind of post is what makes someone lose credibility. Don't get me wrong, I am not his biggest fan either. This election was a great example of the lesser of two evils, which with most of you leaves nothing to the imagination of who you thought was more evil. You know you are in a rut when you have to choose between two corporate charlatans.
P.S. A president can actually "control" the economy when he puts in policies that actually help the people build the economy up instead of just making the fat cats richer. (This goes for both Bush and Obama)
Might be time to head back to the Andes for a few years y'all. I walked by the door of the rail planning office earlier today and listened to the crickets... :'(
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: NotNow on November 03, 2010, 03:56:30 PM
Quote from: north miami on November 03, 2010, 03:14:30 PM
Sink's "F" rating from the NRA didn't help her prospects.
It does not take much to garner a poor profile rating from the NRA.
One can be an avid,active law abiding gun owner or even "pro gun" in philosophy save, for instance,concerns over Gun Show Loophole and you are deemed off target by the NRA.
Charlie Christ enjoyed a strong "Pro Gun" endorsement when running for Governor.In campaign pieces he was pictured with a venerable bread & butter friendly field Remington Model 870 Shotgun slung over his shoulder.(Rather than say-the evil AK 47 style..............)
John Kerry did the same thing in his Presidential bid-in fact he held an 870 high over his head at the Remington factory but only republicans get to have traction on this type of stuff.
Jeb Bush was decidedly non outdoorsy but kept gun folk and the closely related outdoor/conservation constituency calm.
There was an unfounded hysterical rush to gun purchases as a result of the Obama Presidential victory.One notable gun ban threat projected to a wide audience was in fact nothing other than the proceedings from a Committee hearing years before.It took months for the truth to emerge.
Few or none of the Democrats gaining office in the past few years did so on an anti gun platform.
Perhaps the biggest danger from guns stems not so much from lawful gun possession and use,or even abuse but rather from the political fallout generated elsewhere- as in Sink's loss by thin margin.
*** Perhaps their voting record had something to do with it..... ***
One ardent gun owning friend commented today: "Screw the NRA!"
Thankfully for gun "rights" not all gun owners are beholden to a single political party or organization.
Quote from: Dog Walker on November 03, 2010, 04:06:48 PM
...try to run things like a mega-corporation ...
Rick Scott is, of course, best known as the disgraced former head of the Columbia/HCA health-care company that got caught up in a massive fraud scandal in the 1990s -- and nothing says victory in Florida like "Medicare fraud." Scott's firm later pleaded guilty to charges that it overbilled state and federal health plans, and agreed to pay $1.7 billion in fines, a record penalty for a health care company. The fines covered fraud perpetrated under Scott's watch, and he was forced out of his job as a result of the scandal.
More recently, Scott used his personal fortune to hire the Swiftboat liars' p.r. firm, and proceeded to launch a breathtakingly deceptive right-wing ad campaign in opposition to health care reform. He is, by the way, also at the center of an ongoing scandal stemming from his alleged fraud at a different health care company he created.
When the initial HCA scandal broke, and Scott was forced to give a deposition about his role, he pleaded the Fifth Amendment -- 75 times. After the second fraud scandal broke, Scott gave another deposition just days before he announced his gubernatorial campaign, but refused to let the public know what he said.
And despite his scandals and alleged crimes, and the fact that he's never held any public office and at any level, Rick Scot will now be the chief executive of one of the nation's largest states.
Interesting indeed.
Quote from: north miami on November 03, 2010, 03:53:00 PM
Already,perhaps due to the fact that most "wins" have been only by thin margins.Many loyal Republicans and 'conservatives' voted for Sink- the first "D" to get their vote in a looooong time
Changing faces will not address the systemic problems and already now the call for 'compromise.Selfishly I say let the new faces have it all for a couple of years however the damage could be untold and besides,the power behind the new faces will no doubt manage to deflect responsibility in the comming years.Why not??
I think Garden Guy a few posts above had it right...
QuoteI'm just amazed at how lazy my fellow dems are....just plain laziness...we all just need to get ready for a good screwing from this guy
A a couple hundred extra dem voters in each precinct and Sink would have won... Shame...
Gonna apply tomorrow to have my driveway widened to 4 lanes...
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Dog Walker on November 03, 2010, 04:06:48 PM
Scott has no, zero, nada experience in government or politics. He's either going to be owned by Thrasher and that crowd or try to run things like a mega-corporation which will get him exactly no where.
Going to be an "interesting" few years. Like the Chinese curse.
Exactly! Thrasher has already inserted his despicable hand into the puppet, per the TU. It is hard to believe that someone who spent $73 million dollars of his own money, will really be able to understand the average Floridian. I'm with Ock. I'm out of here. Education, gay rights, the environment, mass transit, the working middle class...all will be demolished within a couple of years. People might call me a Debbie Downer, but I really think FL is headed right off the cliff. I'm not about to be dragged along.
Don't be so quick to run, guys. Years ago we survived a term of Claude "Crazyman" Kirk. His wack job of a wife, Erica, provided entertainment during the interim.
The lawyers are going to make a lot of money in the next four years too.
We will get bruised, disgusted and discouraged, but survive.
We can scream all we want but the right wing nuts of this state have elected him and we can now and henceforth blame all of his ilk on them their thiers....i can't believe how low the republicans can get...how can they look at this man and think he's going to be a good governor...what have we become...."HE'S A THIEF"...so get ready to get screwed....
The cross over of republicans to democrat for Sink was pretty significant. Dems can only blame themselves for losing to Scott. Young democrats couldnt be bothered...
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 04, 2010, 08:23:49 AM
The cross over of republicans to democrat for Sink was pretty significant. Dems can only blame themselves for losing to Scott. Young democrats couldnt be bothered...
+1
I hate to enter this thread, but....I found this in the Miami Herald. Maybe it adds a little perspective.
Sink lost Flager, Volusia and Collier (albeit, Scott’s home), where Obama won. Relative to Obama’s margins, Sink's support was also weaker than Obama's in Miami-Dade, Broward, Hillsborough, Pinellas and Orange counties.
Read more: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2010/11/little-counties-pack-big-republican-punch-for-rick-scott.html?cid=6a00d83451b26169e20133f58d4830970b#ixzz14JkmUeeT
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 04, 2010, 08:23:49 AM
The cross over of republicans to democrat for Sink was pretty significant. Dems can only blame themselves for losing to Scott. Young democrats couldnt be bothered...
and the fact that independents swung strongly for Scott
Quote from: JaguarReign on November 03, 2010, 04:23:52 PM
Not another one of those Hitler diatribes. No matter how much of a crook Rick Scott, he does not approach Hitler levels. Hitler killed 6 million people, Rick Scott was strictly financial corruption and greed. This kind of post is what makes someone lose credibility. Don't get me wrong, I am not his biggest fan either. This election was a great example of the lesser of two evils, which with most of you leaves nothing to the imagination of who you thought was more evil. You know you are in a rut when you have to choose between two corporate charlatans.
Jaguar, I wasn't comparing Scott as a person to Hitler, just the way he performed as a candidate. Aside from Scott having been associated with questionable morals/behavior, he did not attempt to explain what he will do once in power (he refused to take questions from the press for the most part so he wouldn't have to elaborate his positions), relied on whipping the populace into an emotional frenzy over a single issue, jobs, for which he offered only platitudes, and exploited an overwhelming propaganda campaign via the mass media (a technique developed to an art form, by the way, by the Nazi's Goebbels who famously said that if a lie is repeated enough times the masses will believe it).
As to your comment, Hitler killed millions AFTER coming into office, not before, so I fail to see your comparison. My intent was to focus on the fact that Hitler was supported by the populace for his populist economic promises and slants and used this to launch and excuse his nationalistic and criminal ambitions once he gained power.
I stand by my fear that if we elect enough candidates that run campaigns like Scott in which a candidate essentially is elected on a single issue, remains an enigma, and demonizes their opponents through overwhelming mass media "advertising", the odds of putting someone in office that exercises extraordinary abuse or misuse of power remains uncomfortably large. Unfortunately, I see this happening more and more in our country and it makes me concerned for our future.
stjr, as despicable a character as Rick Scott seemed to most of us, I don't believe that we should target him for taking advantage of a system of electing our leaders that is as corrupt as Scott himself. Once we come to the conclusion that elections in this country are not necessarily won by merit but by how much money can be spent in a campaign then we can understand how men like Rick Scott can rise from depravity to the governorship of a state the size of Florida. Our free market mentality, endorsed by our wise and peremptory Supreme Court, says that politicians are free to outspend each other to reach their political goals and no one should object, not even the President in his State of the Union speech. We should learn from the British system. So let's not lay the blame at the feet of Rick Scott, he did what he had to do to get elected, he spent his millions because he could. And let's not blame the media either especially the networks, Scott was their cash cow for months.
As far as the electorate being hoodwinked or lulled into some kind of hypnosis by all of Scott's commercials, the American people are not drawn to politicians for their character or moral stances. If that were the case we would have drafted Billy Graham years ago for the White House. We admire shady politicians the way we admire criminals who are smart enough to break out of prison over and over again.
Quote from: Cricket on November 29, 2010, 08:58:30 AM
stjr, as despicable a character as Rick Scott seemed to most of us, I don't believe that we should target him for taking advantage of a system of electing our leaders that is as corrupt as Scott himself. Once we come to the conclusion that elections in this country are not necessarily won by merit but by how much money can be spent in a campaign then we can understand how men like Rick Scott can rise from depravity to the governorship of a state the size of Florida. Our free market mentality, endorsed by our wise and peremptory Supreme Court, says that politicians are free to outspend each other to reach their political goals and no one should object, not even the President in his State of the Union speech. We should learn from the British system. So let's not lay the blame at the feet of Rick Scott, he did what he had to do to get elected, he spent his millions because he could. And let's not blame the media either especially the networks, Scott was their cash cow for months.
As far as the electorate being hoodwinked or lulled into some kind of hypnosis by all of Scott's commercials, the American people are not drawn to politicians for their character or moral stances. If that were the case we would have drafted Billy Graham years ago for the White House. We admire shady politicians the way we admire criminals who are smart enough to break out of prison over and over again.
Money isn't everything. Just ask Meg Whitman. There's something about Rick Scott that people actually liked other than he spent millions on commercials.
Quote from: cityimrov on December 01, 2010, 08:25:16 PM
Quote from: Cricket on November 29, 2010, 08:58:30 AM
stjr, as despicable a character as Rick Scott seemed to most of us, I don't believe that we should target him for taking advantage of a system of electing our leaders that is as corrupt as Scott himself. Once we come to the conclusion that elections in this country are not necessarily won by merit but by how much money can be spent in a campaign then we can understand how men like Rick Scott can rise from depravity to the governorship of a state the size of Florida. Our free market mentality, endorsed by our wise and peremptory Supreme Court, says that politicians are free to outspend each other to reach their political goals and no one should object, not even the President in his State of the Union speech. We should learn from the British system. So let's not lay the blame at the feet of Rick Scott, he did what he had to do to get elected, he spent his millions because he could. And let's not blame the media either especially the networks, Scott was their cash cow for months.
As far as the electorate being hoodwinked or lulled into some kind of hypnosis by all of Scott's commercials, the American people are not drawn to politicians for their character or moral stances. If that were the case we would have drafted Billy Graham years ago for the White House. We admire shady politicians the way we admire criminals who are smart enough to break out of prison over and over again.
Money isn't everything. Just ask Meg Whitman. There's something about Rick Scott that people actually liked other than he spent millions on commercials.
I think it's got much more to do with California being a whole different animal than Florida, than anything else. California doesn't have as big of a giant population of zombies that will just vote straight ideaology without any real thought, no matter how badly the candidate stinks, like Florida does.
Quote from: stjr on November 29, 2010, 01:41:26 AM
The Nazi's Goebbels who famously said that if a lie is repeated enough times the masses will believe it).
As to your comment, Hitler killed millions AFTER coming into office, not before, so I fail to see your comparison. My intent was to focus on the fact that Hitler was supported by the populace for his populist economic promises and slants and used this to launch and excuse his nationalistic and criminal ambitions once he gained power.
I stand by my fear that if we elect enough candidates that run campaigns like Scott in which a candidate essentially is elected on a single issue, remains an enigma, and demonizes their opponents through overwhelming mass media "advertising", the odds of putting someone in office that exercises extraordinary abuse or misuse of power remains uncomfortably large. Unfortunately, I see this happening more and more in our country and it makes me concerned for our future.[/b]
(http://www.eucmh.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/afrika-korps.jpg)
You do realize the Nazi's had the cool uniforms and symbols don't you?
Some historical observations.
Hitler was probably as brilliant as he was mad. As time progresses we increasingly fail to see or understand the mentality of a highly refined and educated people (Germans) who transformed themselves into ravenous wolves.
To really understand, we have to UNLEARN a good deal of our 100-400 level history courses and appeal to our own gut instincts. Anybody here a Southron? Tell me Mr/Ms Southron, would you invite General Sherman over for Christmas dinner? Ever seen the photos of Richmond or Atlanta or Jacksonville or... at the end of the war?
Ever get that sick feeling in your gut when you think of battles lost?Now imagine all of that emotion, plus such economic failure and famine that cannibalism and anarchy erupted in the burnt out city streets. Top this with an international league of nations determined to punish your country for losing... The frustration at being COMPLETELY powerless, and totally hopeless was the state of the German People after WWI. QuoteFor four long years Hitler fought along the front line trenches of the Western Front's most furiously contested battlefronts. These apocalyptic conflicts included the names of places still renowned for their valor and sheer scale of lives lost. All grace the colors of many a regiment. Yser, Ypres, Flanders, Neuve Chapelle, La Bassee, Arras, Artuis, Somme, Fromelles, Alsace Lorraine, Aillette, Montdidier, Soissons, Rheims, Oise, Marne, Champagne, Vosle, Monchy, Bapaume.
In 1918,
about two months after winning the Iron Cross, Hitler was blinded by mustard gas during a battle.
During those terrible years the future leader of the German people displayed exemplary courage in a conflict that involved more than forty battles. He was wounded on 5 October 1916 and hospitalized for two months. Then he was back at the front until 15 October 1918 when he was hospitalized again, this time for gas poisoning.
Throughout the course of the war he was cited for valor and distinguished conduct in the field. He was awarded the Iron Cross 2nd class on 2 December 1914. He was also awarded the Bavarian Military Medal 3rd class with bar, and later the Iron Cross 1st class. He received, as did all wounded soldiers, the Cross of Military Merit.
Lieutenant Colonel Godin, in his official request that Hitler be awarded the Iron Cross 1st Class, stated:
He was a model of coolness and courage in both trench warfare and assault combat. He was always ready to volunteer for carrying messages in the most difficult and dangerous situations.
On awarding this recognition Colonel Anton Tubeuf further stated:
He was always ready to help out in any situation, always volunteered for the most difficult and most arduous, and the most dangerous missions.
A gifted speaker, as noted in his Army files, Hitler seized on the idea of laying blame for the failure of Germany to achieve victory on a defenseless people. When it was simply a minor political party raving about why Jews, Homosexuals, hyper-Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses, and mentally defective peoples were to blame, nobody paid much attention. When the party became the political force and the voice of the government, the people believed it just as American's today believe our own highly twisted versions of history... The Government says it and the lemmings all run off the cliff together...
Anyone want to start a thread on the MANY black owned plantations along the St. Johns River in Antebellum Florida? No? Yeah, I didn't think so, it just doesn't fit our story does it?
OCKLAWAHA