Expect the cruise ship terminal debate to probably heat back up this year. Can a cruise ship terminal and Mayport co-exist?
QuoteCity Needs Cruise Terminal at Mayport
Submitted by Abel Harding on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 01:25.
It's time for Jacksonville to restart the discussion over the future of a cruise terminal.
The existing, temporary terminal sits on the future site of South Korean shipper Hanjin's new terminal and the agreement reached by the company and the International Longshoremen's Association has thrust the issue back to the forefront.
The new Hanjin terminal is slated for a mid-2013 opening, which leaves plenty of time for a hearty dialogue.
JaxPort purchased property in Mayport and had hoped to build a new cruise terminal on the site. Faced with vocal opposition and a sagging economy, the board tabled the idea last year.
JaxPort CEO Rick Ferrin has repeatedly highlighted the profitability of the industry and the revenue it generates for port operations.
"We are committed to keeping the cruise business in Jacksonville," JaxPort spokeswoman Nancy Rubin said as the city welcomed the return of Carnival cruise ship Fascination last week.
Florida's sour real estate environment has driven home the need for a diversified economy. A thriving cruise terminal could lure tourists to an area of the state that hasn't traditionally attracted many of them.
Strategically, a Mayport site for a cruise terminal makes the most sense. East of the Dames Point bridge and power lines, the location could attract the larger ships that are beginning to dominate the industry.
The Mayport Waterfront Partnership, an advisory group that counsels City Hall on Mayport issues, has fought the proposed terminal. It has also lodged code violation complaints with the city, objecting to what it termed a "blighted" chain-link fencing that encompasses JaxPort's property.
Luring code enforcement officers to a fishing community dotted with abandoned cars and distressed properties may not be in the best interest of the group.
Driving around the fishing community founded in 1562, it's hard not to envision how a properly constructed cruise terminal could revitalize it.
David Kulik, the new chairman of JaxPort's board, says the city needs to identify a new site by late 2012.
Kulik said the board is open to other options, but that Mayport remains at the forefront of the sites being considered.
Citing the investments Charleston, S.C., has made to attract cruise ships and the interest by the Georgia Ports Authority in attracting cruise business, Kulik says he hopes the city can get behind a new location.
"If we went back [to Mayport] and had an open discussion, we'd probably have more people responding," he said.
Ultimately, the City Council should make the decision based on what benefits the city as a whole, not necessarily what pleases a few property owners.
If the port can design a terminal and adjacent parking garage that adds character and nostalgia to Mayport, along with a smattering of retail, why shouldn't the community get behind the effort?
South Carolina and Georgia are working to capitalize on our dithering.
In 2009, 185,000 passengers boarded cruise ships at Jacksonville's current terminal. Identifying a permanent home for the terminal would only help position the city to attract even more.
Let's start the conversation.
http://jacksonville.com/interact/blog/abel_harding/2010-02-07/city_needs_cruise_terminal_at_mayport
Mr. Kulik knows not what he speaks off! Going back today and opening a discussion again would get the same responce that took place last time. Vesco (John Rood) bought up waterfront property delibertly, not only to build more condo's but to build a Cruise Terminal. If Mayport is so enthused why have they not said.....oh yes we want a cruise terminal and all the traffic that goes with it and yes we want our water front bought up so we can become like Neptune and Jax Beach denied acess to what was our beaches. Mayport does not seem very enthused at all.........but Jaxport sure is! What is wrong with this picture?
Can a middle ground be found? Both have needs. JaxPort needs a cruise terminal site east of the Dames Point and Mayport needs an economic shot in the arm. It may be possible through good design and coordination with the community to develop a product that makes both sides winners.
Mayport already is a navy base, so would a cruise ship terminal really harm the "historic" parts of Mayport? By making Mayport a destination; in other words, embracing the cruise ship terminal, opening small B&B's, more restraunts and small stores so that the cruise ship people like to come early and/ or stay that extra day, as we do when we go on a cruise, then Mayport wins. And so does all of Jacksonville. I would think that the shrimpers some worry about need to collectively bargain their needs to insure they benefit from the terminal that would potentially hurt them, but that would be something the promoters of the cruise ship terminal should be more than willing to do.
We are not talking about taking up beach property here CS. The property that we speak of is old docks along the riverfront that need replacing anyway. Shrimp boats, the ferry, and Singleton's are the tenants in the area we speak. If done properly, all can still coexist with Cruise ships, albeit in a cleaner, safer, more aesthetically pleasing environment. It is my humble opinion that these "residents" are one of three things: not so bright, a little misguided, or want to remain in the poorhouse. They could be all three, actually. If it comes down to it, the port and city council should just use imminent domain in this case and not include any of the old in the new. That will really get them upset haha! No seriously, I love Singleton's, used to go in there all the time (traveled by boat), and the shrimp boats, while a dying industry already, are cool. What would be cooler is a nice new cruise port, a few condos across the street, a revamped marina, a rebuilt SIngleton's that still retains its character (could also be a tourist draw), same thing with Safe Harbor, and a rebuilt area for the shrimp boats. The ferry can be part of the draw/operation. These people that cannot see how all of this could hugely line their pockets and/or help them out should not be taken into consideration in the proposals if all they want to do is keep progress out and offer no legitimate explanation as to why.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 07, 2010, 09:20:25 AM
Can a middle ground be found? Both have needs. JaxPort needs a cruise terminal site east of the Dames Point and Mayport needs an economic shot in the arm. It may be possible through good design and coordination with the community to develop a product that makes both sides winners.
A middle ground will be found as soon as the Nimbys realize this one is happening. All pretense of there being some debate about that is window dressing.
Now the sooner the residents change tactics and start demanding this and that to allow the terminal to come the more they will get out of the deal. IMO the locals should be able to determint their own fate on this one(even though they are wrong not to want this). However they will lose this fight and should start thinking get what I can out of this.
Forgive me Mayport, but you have become so depressed it's painful to drive through your little hamlet. I really love the foundations of the old buildings that line the waterfront. With such a small population and a major allergy against development and taxes, you will surely only deteriorate to the point of being a complete ghetto. God forbide the ferry ever closes down. Save the handfull of historic sights. Boost the economy of everyone. Wake up Mayport. You can't bring back the past and you don't have the economy to stop the continual depressed condition of you little village.
Quote from: CS Foltz on February 07, 2010, 08:34:56 AM
Mr. Kulik knows not what he speaks off! Going back today and opening a discussion again would get the same responce that took place last time. Vesco (John Rood) bought up waterfront property delibertly, not only to build more condo's but to build a Cruise Terminal. If Mayport is so enthused why have they not said.....oh yes we want a cruise terminal and all the traffic that goes with it and yes we want our water front bought up so we can become like Neptune and Jax Beach denied acess to what was our beaches. Mayport does not seem very enthused at all.........but Jaxport sure is! What is wrong with this picture?
Nothing at all CS, we are Mayport! Mayport is simply a community within Jacksonville, which could easily have exited the City they love to trash, back in Consolidation. Traffic? What traffic? The Port is already talking building new access roads to Mayport and who knows, if the village pushed it, perhaps a streetcar from Downtown Atlantic and Neptune Beaches to Mayport... Meanwhile the cars come in over a day, they park, stay a few days to a few weeks, then drive off as the ship disembarks, no rush hour conditions need prevail.
History Lesson For Mayport Mills...
Hanging on to the Mayport waterfront like Atlantic or Neptune Beaches is really a bad comparison. The US Coastal Defense had a battery at "May Port Mills" in the late 1850's. By 1861 this became Fort Steele, enlarged, enhanced, and abandoned by the Confederate State Troops. In 1862 The Federal invaders created a US Naval Coaling Station at May Port. By 1893, the village was served by three railroads, The Jacksonville and Atlantic; The Jacksonville, Mayport and Pablo Beach; and The Mayport Terminal Company, and by 1900 the Navy was joined by the railroads in creating one vast coal dump at Mayport. Hardly the French Riviera, by the end of WWII the Navy had it's own facility east of Mayport, and the railroads had converted to bunker fuel oil or diesel. This left a few old wharves and a railroad depot on stilts to sag and rot into the river, but not before it was claimed by a large post war Shrimping Fleet. Today the commercial fishing industry is on the skids in the Southeast, and our new fearless leader in Washington, seems bent on killing off whatever is left of the commercial industry and is now starting to cut deeply into the sport fishing industry.
With the military having sought out it's own quarters, the coal ships long gone, and the fishing industry drying up, just what part of the community should we save? By and Large, it's GONE and the residents who live there are largely transplants attracted to cheap housing offered in a depressed area. JPA has gone FAR, FAR, above what would be offered by most States or Ports in this country and Mayport still spits and hisses. Imagine a chance at a real "main street," a hotel or two, some retail and better housing and it costs you nothing!
We should all have such a problem!OCKLAWAHA
What is the population of Mayport. I drove there every day to work for 7 years. All that is there is a few cinder block building and a few shacks. If there is anything historical left it could be Incorporated into the terminal
The population of the actual village cant be more that 50 to 100. The village is miles from the rest of mayport
Gentlemen.........I am really in a quandary about this one! The thought of losing another Historic Shrimping Community does distress me..........one more slice of old Florida disappearing! More condos and water front apartments and a Cruise Terminal to boot? What do the inhabitants get out of the deal...........jobs at the Terminal? Most Terminals I have been to are kind of self contained except for power and waste! Other than that a standalone entity! Shrimpers could band together, but for what.......a place to turn around outside of the channel or maybe new docks or maybe jobs at Jaxport? Something is wrong with this picture and I just can't put a finger on the issue other than it feels wrong for some reason. I don't think a Rood run empire in that area would be conducive to Mayport continuing to exist in any fashion and the use of eminent domain would be a curse that would affect Jacksonville for quite some time! Eminent domain should be a last resort not a first resort and if used, the only ones that get what they want would be the Cruise Terminal and that is flat out wrong!
Money will prevail and all that will remain of Mayport in a few years is the name. Take pictures now, it will be gone before 2014. Money and power will push it off the map.
Quote from: CS Foltz on February 07, 2010, 03:52:11 PM
Gentlemen.........I am really in a quandary about this one! The thought of losing another Historic Shrimping Community does distress me..........one more slice of old Florida disappearing!
Why does it have to be either or? Why can't history be preserved and strengthened with good well designed integrated infill?
QuoteMore condos and water front apartments and a Cruise Terminal to boot? What do the inhabitants get out of the deal...........jobs at the Terminal?
There's no market for condos, so that idea may be DOA. However, with JaxPort funding a new terminal the inhabitants could get new shrimping docks, park space, retail space and more tourist visiting the area out of the deal. These things could also help save the ferry from eventually disappearing and also strengthen the dying shrimping/seafood industry there. If I were a resident of the area, I would be trying to get as much out of JaxPort as possible to not only preserve the remaining history but also improve the quality, atmosphere and economic conditions of the community.
QuoteMost Terminals I have been to are kind of self contained except for power and waste! Other than that a standalone entity!
Check out Tampa's terminal. There's a retail/entertainment complex, floating ship museum and an aquarium adjacent all connected to DT and Ybor City by a streetcar.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/brt/other_cities/tampa/DCP_9438.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/brt/other_cities/tampa/DCP_9430.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/brt/other_cities/tampa/DCP_9406.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/brt/other_cities/tampa/DCP_9409.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/brt/other_cities/tampa/DCP_9408.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/brt/other_cities/tampa/DCP_9442.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/tampa/Channelside-cruise.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/tampa/Channelside-2.jpg)
QuoteShrimpers could band together, but for what.......a place to turn around outside of the channel or maybe new docks or maybe jobs at Jaxport?
Just to toss out a few ideas......how about new docks, supportive facilities (ex. cold storage,etc.) and a fresh seafood market at the terminal to sell their catch to the new tourist?
QuoteSomething is wrong with this picture and I just can't put a finger on the issue other than it feels wrong for some reason. I don't think a Rood run empire in that area would be conducive to Mayport continuing to exist in any fashion and the use of eminent domain would be a curse that would affect Jacksonville for quite some time! Eminent domain should be a last resort not a first resort and if used, the only ones that get what they want would be the Cruise Terminal and that is flat out wrong!
Instead of drawing the line in the sand and getting ran over in the process, it may be to Mayport's best interest to identify the vision for their community (assuming they don't already have one) and work with JaxPort and JaxPort's money to help finally get them there.
lake ...I agree to a point! Give me an example of "good well designed integrated infill"? Not being sarcastic big guy but none come to my mind right out of the blocks! Proposed Transportation Center really bites the big one so that is not one...........Prime Osburn is not a convention center persay nor is it a train station any longer. River Walk on one side is bricks and concrete and the other side is nothing but rotted wood and I won't say anything about the $kyway! In Jacksonville not much comes to mind and based on that Mayport would probably get the short end of the stick also! Several people have issue's with Jaxport and the management there (all live in Mayport by the way)ranging from Code being contacted with supposed violations(none were found) and Jaxport itself, debris and falling fences(Code enforcement did not even bother to show up). There is some animosity between the two groups but from my view, I would like to see something worked out where there is no losers but that's not up to me! Mayport will disappear but if I were there, not without a fight! Oh....and Mayport did not have a vision of any kind last time I talked to that group other than staying as was
Quote from: CS Foltz on February 07, 2010, 07:52:23 PM
lake ...I agree to a point! Give me an example of "good well designed integrated infill"?
You want a local example or just any example? Norfolk's new terminal is pretty will integrated with it's surroundings. It was built in a tight spot adjacent to Nauticus, the USS Wisconsin and Town Point Park. I could see something similar being done in Mayport with a Mayport theme of course. All it takes is both sides working together to achieve the goals they want.
(http://www.southerncruising.com/images/contentmanaged/1th%20Medium%20Web%20view.jpg)
QuoteNorfolk has entered the next chapter in its storied maritime history by opening a new, $36 million Half Moone Cruise & Celebration Center (www.cruisenorfolk.org). It’s located downtown adjacent to Nauticus, the maritime attraction and museum which displays the U.S.S. Wisconsin, a World War II era battleship.
http://www.southerncruising.com/NewsRelease.aspx?NewsId=32
(http://www.norfolkvisitor.com/half-moone-terminal.jpg)
QuoteThe city works hard to make your cruise from Norfolk VA as easy and pleasant as possible. The Norfolk cruise terminal dock is at a beautiful waterfront park and museum; not a dirty industrial district like in other ports.
A new cruise terminal for Norfolk opened in 2007. The new terminal is called the Half Moone Cruise and Celebration Center; named for a fort that once stood at the site. The 80,000-square-foot terminal has 33,000 square feet of space for events and a 54-foot mermaid image cast in the floor tile of its entrance.
Cruise ships in Norfolk dock next to Nauticus, the national maritime museum. It is well worth your time to tour Nauticus and the Battleship Wisconsin before or after your cruise.
http://www.norfolkvisitor.com/cruisenorfolk.html
(http://media.hamptonroads.com/cache/files/images/320861000.jpg)
(http://www.festeventsva.org/file/2009/turning-point-park-project/600-pixel/town-point-park.jpg)
QuoteMayport will disappear but if I were there, not without a fight! Oh....and Mayport did not have a vision of any kind last time I talked to that group other than staying as was
Mayport is already disappearing due to changing demographics and economics. Under the right circumstances, working with JaxPort could save the community, imo.
lake............you do have a point to a degree! The biggest problem that I see with that scenario is (1) Both sides coming to an agreement and working with each other (2) Funding for anything that gets built there! I don't mean another Tax or another Fee to get it done but I don't see Jaxport with the funding either! This is not something that JEDC would consider or they might! In the current fiscal climate Blank Million Dollar Grants are going to be hard to come by, along with 1.whatever % low interest loans. I am not sure Carnival would foot the bill for something like that but know that the Mobile Facility was City built and financed. That was done also on State owned property............from what I was told long term lease, but that ship is a small Cruise liner for sure!
Quote from: CS Foltz on February 07, 2010, 08:40:27 PM
lake............you do have a point to a degree! The biggest problem that I see with that scenario is (1) Both sides coming to an agreement and working with each other
Jax's problem is that opposing sides tend to draw their line in the sand and refuse to talk. This is why many of the things we've invested in never pan out. Dialogue, creativity and innovation equals success. At some point, we have to change our ways. Why not Mayport?
Quote(2) Funding for anything that gets built there! I don't mean another Tax or another Fee to get it done but I don't see Jaxport with the funding either! This is not something that JEDC would consider or they might! In the current fiscal climate Blank Million Dollar Grants are going to be hard to come by, along with 1.whatever % low interest loans. I am not sure Carnival would foot the bill for something like that but know that the Mobile Facility was City built and financed. That was done also on State owned property............from what I was told long term lease, but that ship is a small Cruise liner for sure!
Funding should not have anything to do with planning for something that can benefit all parties. In many cases, getting everyone involved and planning early can save taxpayers a ton of money when it comes time to implement.
San Juan's cruise terminal.....
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4540-p1090741.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4539-p1090787.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4516-p1090822.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-4514-p1090797.JPG)
one of the reasons the JaxPort deferred the cruise terminal last year was concern over the bond market...the intent is to float bonds for both Hanjin and the terminal.
CS, would that be good enough for you?
QuotePort chair orders cruise terminal feasibility study
by Mike Sharkey
Staff Writer
Change may be what led Jacksonville Port Authority Board Chair David Kulik to ask the Port’s management team to immediately begin a new feasibility study on retaining the cruise industry in Jacksonville.
Change in the economy.
Change in the status of the Hanjin cargo terminal.
And, possibly, change in the mindsets of those opposed to a new terminal in Mayport.
Kulik made the request Monday during the Port Authority’s monthly board meeting. He stressed he’s asking JPA CEO Rick Ferrin and his staff to look into the idea and shied away from suggesting any particular sites.
“If we do not act soon, the decision will be made for us,†said Kulik.
One Mayport business owner has supported moving the cruise terminal from Dames Point to Mayport since day one.
“I support it 100 percent and always have. I wish it was here already,†said Safe Harbor Seafood owner Gerald Pack in a telephone interview after the meeting, which he did not attend.
A lifelong fisherman and beneficiary of the seafood industry, Pack said new federal regulations over the fishing industry have almost crippled his business.
“I am one breath away from closing,†he said.
Pack said those opposed to the cruise terminal, if Mayport is deemed the proper site, should stay out of the debate.
“Most of those who have an opinion don’t have a pair of flip-flops in Mayport. They don’t own property out here. They just have an opinion,†said Pack.
“I am totally for business. How can you have 180,000 people drive by and not get some business? How can people want to leave it (Mayport) like it is? It will create jobs, temporary jobs they may be, but right now go out and try to find a job. It’s not that easy,†he said.
Pack thinks opinions might have changed. “I think they are more receptive now than six months ago,†he said.
The Port Authority owns enough property in Mayport to build the terminal and support buildings.
No one attending the meeting spoke publicly in opposition to the study.
Kulik said the decision a year ago by then Port Authority Chair Bill Mason to essentially scrap the cruise terminal talks made sense. The worldwide economy was in shambles and no one knew when things would turn around. However, Kulik said, the cruise industry has shown resiliency, especially in Jacksonville.
“There’s an improved image of Jacksonville not as just a great port city, but as a cruise terminal. This is a critical juncture for us,†he said.
“Good ports, the ones with the best reputations in the world, can do both (cargo and cruise business). It is also critical because of competition,†he said.
According to Kulik, Hanjin and International Longshoreman’s Association officials have met and he expects a deal to be reached soon.
“We feel very confident they are going to come to an agreement,†he said, adding about two years after the engineering study on the Hanjin terminal is complete, demolition on the current cruise terminal will begin.
“Two years go by in a flash. We need to start thinking about what to do with the cruise terminal because we can see into the future and the future says we will demo the cruise terminal,†he said.
According to Port Authority spokesperson Nancy Rubin, the current contract with Carnival expires in May of next year. Ferrin said Carnival officials understand the situation in Jacksonville with both the Hanjin deal and the undecided cruise terminal location. While Carnival may be willing to temporarily put business on hold out of Jacksonville, Ferrin said they won’t be willing to do so for very long.
“If the cruise terminal is ready in June of 2012, there will be no gap in service,†said Ferrin. “That means we would have to be under construction in the next six months.â€
Kulik said it’s the board’s job to provide direction for Ferrin and staff. He also understands the port’s role in the local economy.
“It’s the board’s responsibility to provide economic value for the area. The cruise terminal has proven to be an economic engine and has created jobs. It’s a very challenging project,†he said.
“There will be no questions unanswered, no details unresolved and person unheard as we conduct the study,†he said.
The board eventually approved the study, but not before Kulik reminded everyone nothing is final no matter what the study indicates.
“This is not a vote on a cruise terminal, it’s not a vote on a site,†he said. “It’s just directing the management to conduct a new feasibility study.â€
Kulik also said 2010 is starting off very well for Carnival. Even as the economy continues to show signs of struggling, the line reported profits of $175 million the first quarter of the year.
“That’s less than the previous quarter,†he said, adding Carnival had to reduce prices to attract business. “It’s a very dynamic industry.â€
An economic impact study from last year indicated there are nearly 500 cruise-related jobs in the area and the industry has an annual economic impact of $67 million.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=530629
Good news. We need to have a sense of urgency about this issue. Two years is no time at all. We need to start turning some dirt on a new facility ASAP.
QuoteOne Mayport business owner has supported moving the cruise terminal from Dames Point to Mayport since day one.
“I support it 100 percent and always have. I wish it was here already,†said Safe Harbor Seafood owner Gerald Pack in a telephone interview after the meeting, which he did not attend.
I believe safe Harbor is one of the biggest employers in Mayport...
QuoteA lifelong fisherman and beneficiary of the seafood industry, Pack said new federal regulations over the fishing industry have almost crippled his business.
“I am one breath away from closing,†he said.
This is one business that would probably be helped by the cruise terminal...
There's not many that would be hurt. Most of Mayport has disappeared already. I imagine the couple of remaining spots like Safe Harbor and Singleton's would benefit from tourist visiting the area.
Exactly... In addition the shrimping industry has been in decline for quite awhile. I recently read that alot of the "Mayport Shrimp" advertised and sold is not caught from boats at Mayport nor in the area but up and down the coast from the carolinas to Miami. The loss of a couple shrimp boats might be overcome by a couple new sport fishing charters to the new tourists coming to cruise...
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/073108/lif_311065844.shtml
QuoteWhat makes a shrimp a Mayport Shrimp?
It's known to be delicious. But you can't always be sure it's what you're eating.
LIZ VAN HOOSER
Because I'm both a new resident of Jacksonville and a food writer, locals haven't been shy in giving me lots of advice on where and what I should eat (who doesn't like to talk about food?).
And the welcomed suggestions, while varied, almost always include a plug for one of the region's culinary staples: Mayport shrimp.
For folks from the Midwest like me, fresh shrimp that didn't come from a fish farm is unheard of. Discovering the joys of recently caught crustaceans has been a real treat.
But ask what Mayport shrimp is, or what makes a shrimp a Mayport shrimp, and you'll likely get some conflicting responses.
Ben Williams, owner of Fisherman's Dock fish markets and a former shrimper, is a bit cynical about the whole Mayport label.
"To call something a Mayport shrimp is both at the same time a lie and a marketing tool because what you're telling the customer is, 'This is Mayport shrimp.' Well, you have to define terms. To say something is a Mayport shrimp tells you nothing."
Mayport, of course, refers to the coastal village east of Jacksonville that is home to about 20 of the state's shrimping boats. Four types of shrimp live in the waters off the coast here, commonly called brown, white, pink and rock shrimp. Brown and white shrimp make up the lion's share of what's caught locally.
Though it seems logical that a Mayport shrimp was caught near Mayport, that might not be the case, said Gerald Pack, owner of Safe Harbor Seafood, a major fish processing plant in Mayport.
"It all depends on where they're finding the shrimp and the size of the boats; the bigger boats stay out for longer trips and could have come from North Carolina or Key West," Pack said.
And just because a shrimping boat sold its bounty to a Mayport plant doesn't mean the boat and crew are local. Processors don't discriminate based on a boat's origin.
To further complicate things, there's nothing to stop a retailer from labeling shrimp processed in other areas such as St. Augustine or Fernandina as Mayports.
Pack said policing such labeling would be "pretty much impossible."
Besides, "It's all the same species of shrimp you're talking about," he said.
Right now, brown shrimp are in season and will be until September, when the whites start dominating the catches. Some rock and pink shrimp, which are found in the deep waters off the coast, are also coming in.
Although the pinks are more common in Florida and waters south of here, the browns, whites and rock shrimp can be found from Norfolk, Va., to Brazil, in an area known as the Caribbean Province, said Quinton White, executive director of the Marine Science Research Institute.
White said it's no wonder Mayports developed such a stellar reputation here.
"For people who had never eaten really fresh shrimp, Mayport shrimp offered something far superior," he said. "There's no doubt when you catch a shrimp and cook it quickly, it is much better than a frozen product."
Williams said he's made a decision in his fish markets not to label any shrimp as Mayports. For him, it makes more sense to call a shrimp a shrimp.
"What people really want to know is, 'Is it fresh, and is it from the East Coast?' "