I was really glad to learn of the Flying Ninjas, with their faithfull canine companions hard at work putting a dent in the corner business's down on 8Th! Now if the Council representative for that world would just do their job and direct JSO to put a dent in the meat market there, maybe Springfield can finally start to solidify into a neighborhood the residents can be proud off. I have to ask point blank to that Council person..........are you a patron of that area? Why do you not respond to the voters request to clean it up? If your term limited, no excuse and no reason and since you don't seem too interested to do what you were voted into office to do, I will ask - Why don't you do your job and represent the people who voted you into office? Registered voters will remember the slight and come election time, you might have to get a real job unless you have vested business interests already in progress..........say an office on 8Th?
How is it the council's job to dictate what JSO does? Would that responsibility fall upon JSO and the supervisors?
Springfielder..........Council representative for that area has been contacted more than once! JSO non-emergency number has been called repeatedly because the Council person said that was what to do. Problem still exists and has not changed any at all...........next up would Vigilante system of some sort and there are people who expect City Hall, JSO and their representative to do something about the issue! But an issue that effects an area, that needs to have something done about it and nothing happens except lip service, something is wrong with that picture!
Ok......................this is a minor point..........but you all know that these are not ladies right????? LOL
tpot.............where I come from all females are treated like ladies until they prove that they are not! Just the way I was raised! Some of those on 8th probably are lady wanta be's but I would not investigate closer! I am allergic to penicillin and most broad spectrum antibiotics...........so no investigation from me for sure! Sooner or later JSO should get involved and that problem will have to take a number, but sooner or later it will have to be addressed!
yeah, I agree that females should be treated like ladies until they prove they are not............but these are dudes desssed as ladies...................not that it makes a difference...............just a little FYI..............LOL
Quote from: CS Foltz on February 06, 2010, 04:35:56 PM
tpot.............where I come from all females are treated like ladies until they prove that they are not! Just the way I was raised! Some of those on 8th probably are lady wanta be's but I would not investigate closer! I am allergic to penicillin and most broad spectrum antibiotics...........so no investigation from me for sure! Sooner or later JSO should get involved and that problem will have to take a number, but sooner or later it will have to be addressed!
case in point. everyone is an expert on our "problem" but in fact they don't know crap. THESE ARE MEN!!!! dressed as women, they are violent, they are nasty, they are loud, they are disease bearing and they are left unimpeded. we have a few jso officers that put forth a concerted effort, but for the most part - nada. again, this is nothing new. i am still more than a little tickled at the post stating that basically it was alright, there really wasn't anything wrong with it. WTF it is ILLEGAL.
From Wikipedia:
Nevada is the only U.S. state to allow some legal prostitution; in most of its rural counties brothels are legalized and heavily regulated. (In Rhode Island, prostitution was outlawed in 2009.) Prostitution outside the licensed brothels is illegal throughout Nevada. Prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas (and in Clark County which contains its metropolitan area). Currently eight out of Nevada's 16 counties have active brothels; as of June/July 2008 there were 28 legal brothels in Nevada.[1][2][3]
Brothel prostitutes work as independent contractors and thus do not receive any unemployment, retirement or health benefits. They are responsible for paying Federal income tax and their earnings are reported to the IRS via form 1099-MISC. Nevada does not have a state income tax. The women typically work for a period of several weeks, during which time they live in the brothel and hardly ever leave it. They then take some time off. It has been argued that[who?] the tight control that brothels exert over the working conditions precludes the women from legally being classified as independent contractors.
Since 1986, when mandatory testing began, not a single brothel prostitute has tested positive for HIV. The mandatory condom law was passed in 1988. A study conducted in 1995 in two brothels found that condom use in the brothels was consistent and sexually transmitted diseases were accordingly absent. The study also found that few of the prostitutes used condoms in their private lives.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on February 06, 2010, 05:30:58 PM
From Wikipedia:
Nevada is the only U.S. state to allow some legal prostitution; in most of its rural counties brothels are legalized and heavily regulated. (In Rhode Island, prostitution was outlawed in 2009.) Prostitution outside the licensed brothels is illegal throughout Nevada. Prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas (and in Clark County which contains its metropolitan area). Currently eight out of Nevada's 16 counties have active brothels; as of June/July 2008 there were 28 legal brothels in Nevada.[1][2][3]
Brothel prostitutes work as independent contractors and thus do not receive any unemployment, retirement or health benefits. They are responsible for paying Federal income tax and their earnings are reported to the IRS via form 1099-MISC. Nevada does not have a state income tax. The women typically work for a period of several weeks, during which time they live in the brothel and hardly ever leave it. They then take some time off. It has been argued that[who?] the tight control that brothels exert over the working conditions precludes the women from legally being classified as independent contractors.
Since 1986, when mandatory testing began, not a single brothel prostitute has tested positive for HIV. The mandatory condom law was passed in 1988. A study conducted in 1995 in two brothels found that condom use in the brothels was consistent and sexually transmitted diseases were accordingly absent. The study also found that few of the prostitutes used condoms in their private lives.
nice info, however, this is jacksonville, these are nasty, mean men, and it is still very much illegal. one look at most of them will tell you that they have the countdown and are graciously spreading it to anyone they can. and for those that think that only dirty ole men are the gomers, think again. we see volvo's, vets, caddy's and even the tree hugging prius - young and old, black and white. all night, every night. many are frequent flyers.
Quote from: stephendare on February 06, 2010, 05:43:23 PM
I guess pragmatically speaking the only solution is how they do it in Barcelona Spain, where industrial areas have well known spots that the cops try not to pay much attention to.
they do have a similar area in jacksonville - it's the area of springfield know as hampsterdam. the video shows that. we have more or less been told in the past, suck it up, take one for the team. i say, screw the team, i'm sending them a nasty heho - have a nice night.
Well there is Amsterdam in the Neatherlands! That red light district is strictly controlled and operated by the government! All commercial whatevers are licensed and medically inspected, even the drug side of things! At one time you could get anything there.........maybe we can be advertise "What happens in Jacksonville stays in Jacksonville"? This is just a thought of course! Taxing something like this would make alot of sense also!
I just had a thought............downtown could mean just that! Johnny wants to upgrade and get downtown up and running...........why not have a "Red Light District" in there.........should be good for increasing the action available, not to mention increasing the tax base? Just a thought mind you!
I think the only thing we can do is to try and move the business down the street. I read somewhere that the hub for this activity used to be Market and 5th which blew my mind..............
I know on my last ride along with JSO, the officer I was with was encouraging them to move further West down 8th St, but the problem they were having is that the further West you go up 8th the more usafe the area.................so the He Ho's want to work where they feel safe..................
Move the business to downtown...........anyone caught outside gets a stay in the local pokey plain and simple!
downtown is already overrun by the homeless..............the He Ho's need their own space......
Hay! I got it...............lets set up a confrontation between the two groups, sell tickets and do something about the deficit! Winners get to take over City Hall (since they aren't using it)and losers get banished to say Orlando and let them worry about it!
CS..............no question here...........my money is on the He Ho's................hands down..........no wait.......leave my hands outa this................
If the State of Fla would allow a legal, clean and safe alternative most customers would prefer that to the illegal street hookers and not patronize them. It's the black market aspects that cause the violence and public nuisance.
Quote from: stephendare on February 06, 2010, 06:42:28 PM
So Cindi. If you can define Hampsterdam I promise Ill help you clean up the prostitutes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamsterdam
its from the show The Wire, where the popo set up a defacto legalized area where drugs and prostitution could happen. The popo figured they couldn't stop it, so they made a deal, do your thing in Hamsterdam and we won't screw with you, doing this outside of this area you're screwed.
the SPR residents who live in this area call it Hampsterdam because JSO has basically taken the same type of attitude as the police did in the wire. One huge difference, in the Wire the police moved everyone out, so the only people in this area were the drug dealers, pimps and ho's. This new video just proves that JSO considers this part of SPR their Hamsterdam.
for the most part it is from 8th to 6th and from pearl to boulevard. an easy way to tell, at 3am if the traffic is heavier than 3pm by almost double, all the cars have 1 male in them, they circle more than 3 times and you can identify the hookers and know if they are wearing the same thing as yesterday = you are probably in hampsterdam. if you can shake down a shoplifter in the alley knowing he wont call the cops because he has outstanding warrants - you might be in hampsterdam. if you can collect more than 5 used condoms from the sidewalk in front of your house on a daily basis - you might be in hampsterdam. if you know what time the hehos take their break and allow the dealers to operate (fyi, they are almost never together) you might be in hampsterdam. if you thought the "lady" in the jso video was actually a female - you've never been to hampsterdam
I don't live in hampsterdam but I believe the hub of activity is at the SHell Station on 8th and would extend at least a block in all directions......................Hampsterdamnites please advise...............
tpot you are correct. stephen, trust me, it will take more than a few weeks. we went steady at it for over a year. chasing hookers, homeless, gomers etc. we were relentless, every weekend, every night that we didn't actually have to get up and go to our day job the next day - we have taken pictures,been maced, one of us was assulted, collected tag numbers, actually chased the gomers in their cars, lit them up with the god light, called jso, called the guardian angels, called jso, called jso, met with jso, done ride alongs, until someone can find a way to exterminate the gomers - the hookers will not leave. we have even made "agreements" with them to move over to the other side of boulevard which worked for awhile - in return we had to provide "protection" to a couple of them as they were getting their asses kicked by some unhappy customers. frustrated is the word of the day. we also befriended one of the quieter ones and her "protector" to work our corner instead of the loud. screaching ones. at wits end. help is always welcome
stephendare
Do you think the installation of video camera could deter the illegal activity along 8Th street.
Quote from: samiam on February 06, 2010, 08:20:57 PM
stephendare
Do you think the installation of video camera could deter the illegal activity along 8Th street.
we have live video feed it doesn't deter crap. it's actually very frustrating to watch the cops drive by them flagging down their next gomer and doing nothing.
Cindi, Stephen, et al etc... I would submit to all of you that we are going about this whole problem from the wrong direction. Chase it away, beat the shit out of it, flood lite it, air horn it, water cannon it, taze it, mace it, photograph it, harass it, WHATEVER... All you are doing is moving the problem around from one street to the next. In the process your own exposure to the situation causes undo stress and fatigue, perhaps even major depression. Violence can lead to guilt, sleepless nights, suicide, or imprisonment. Not a single one of these "solutions" has a lasting effect, except to deepen the gulf of understanding or empathy, and to potentially create some very dangerous enemy's.
Some 98.7% of all females in prostitution and probably a like percentage for males in prostitution, are survivors of horrid early childhood, childhood, teen, sexual abuse. As rape is never about love, and always about power or control, imagine the demented mind of one who would molest his or her own child, or that of a friend or loved one. So on top of rape, control and violence, you add cruelty, torture, maiming, and every other type of pain physical or mental known to man. The death of innocence and the loss of trust in any authority, plays right into the perpetrator's hands. One single policeman, real or fabricated, doubtlessly in high demand among the depraved, who is willing to talk or make a video, or in some other way "back up" the perpetrator's threats, can shut down city, state, church, law enforcement, social services as avenues of escape for a lifetime. It doesn't take much to convince a terrorized 10 year old that if they tell the dirty little secret to anyone, mommy and daddy will die. Want to REALLY seal their lips or block them from ever trying to get away? Simply torture the child's pet, or kill it in the child's presence. From that point on the victim is helpless and without hope, the mind kicking into survival mode is willing to overlook all sins. Toss in a few pills or a few grams of crack or smack, and the abuser literally "owns" the child for life. Another child enters the sex trade, or the flesh trafficking market.
The only way to effectively fight it is by making a long term commitment to create hope, support, and avenues of safe escape without religious or society restrictions. The week spent holding a young head above the toilet while the withdrawal is wracking the body. The weeks of nights of cold sweats, chills, and the feeling of 10,000 ants crawling just under ones skin. The nail biting (chewing the nails OFF completely), hair pulling, cursing, hate, rage, anger, and inner explosions all have to be handled with one method, extreme, patient LOVE. *see note below
Stephen, do we still have access to the film project short of the young girl who finds her mother at the bar? If so can you post it here??
If y'all want to really get after the problem, we can start by plugging in a local service group with one of the national outreach missions to street prostitutes, call girls and guys. I would suggest we work up our own localized version, and if we posted a call for help in this city, I bet 100 professional's and lay volunteers would answer it immediately. If there is one thing this city has shown in the past, it is our ability to forget almost anything and join hands in compassion... and this needs our compassion.
Check out:
http://www.hookersforjesus.net/ Which uses ex-hookers and sex workers to reach out on the streets.
http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/services.html Dignity House, a long term live in center.
http://www.prostitutionrecovery.org/ A complete Foundation dedicated to recovery.
http://www.hollywoodfl.org/city_clerks/pdf/0407_22.pdf City of Hollywood Fl. Funding Help Center.
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/NewsEventServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=4153
A national center of missing chidren education program offered in Georgia
http://www.justicecoalition.org/newspaper/September2007/VAsept~11.pdf Justice Coalition Victim Advocate
OCKLAWAHA
*note: Not that I've ever done any of this withdrawal stuff, but I've read the books, seen the videos, etc...
QuoteWHATEVER... All you are doing is moving the problem around from one street to the next. In the process your own exposure to the situation causes undo stress and fatigue, perhaps even major depression. Violence can lead to guilt, sleepless nights, suicide, or imprisonment. Not a single one of these "solutions" has a lasting effect, except to deepen the gulf of understanding or empathy, and to potentially create some very dangerous enemy's
it doesn't cause me stress, and i actually could care less if they got nasty with every gomer in town 24/7 if they would do it in their own house/cardboard box or whatever rock they slime from under - their sex howling does keep me awake, no depression - as for the violence leading to guilt etc - not even close. and no, i have absolutely no empathy, sympathy, compassion or any other bleeding heart feelings for anyone that acts like an animal outside my window, not only do i not want to know "their story" i just plain don't care about it. i have spent more than one day in the healthcare field so i am well aware of the statistics, lots of people get dealt a crappy hand in life, not all become hehos bumping nasties on peoples lawns. you are right - there are huge flaws in our social services systems and yes, some people are just "broken", but seriously, when should people have to start taking responsibility for their own actions? news flash, at some point, it is about choices. this city has more social services program for just about everything from dependency issues to the inablity to wipe their own butts.
as for the moving it to another street - hell yea, i could be so lucky - i don't think the people that ran them to our area lost any sleep about giving someone else their nasty little problem
Quote from: stephendare on February 06, 2010, 07:18:37 PM
Im serious about the offer to help get some change over there. Will you help us out if we do it?
It will take a couple of weeks, Maybe a month even, but its doable if there is some consensus over there among the residents that they want it stopped.
If you can solve the problem (or help with it) you would be our hero. We have tried, JSO has tried and for several years now still unresolved.
Wow Cindi, you seem to pride yourself on being "battle hardened" maybe through the health care field. Maybe you didn't notice, but my post wasn't about you, I simply addressed it to You, Stephen and everyone else as the two of you seem to have taken the lead in this thread... call it courtesy.
Having had 2 call girls once living with me in California, I understand their suffering and don't consider myself a bleeding heart for rain forests, whales, or lost puppies. When it comes to human life, and young people in particular, I'm sorry Cindi, I hope I'm never that empty.
PEACE, LOVE and HARMONY
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on February 07, 2010, 01:01:41 AM
Wow Cindi, you seem to pride yourself on being "battle hardened" maybe through the health care field. Maybe you didn't notice, but my post wasn't about you, I simply addressed it to You, Stephen and everyone else as the two of you seem to have taken the lead in this thread... call it courtesy.
Having had 2 call girls once living with me in California, I understand their suffering and don't consider myself a bleeding heart for rain forests, whales, or lost puppies. When it comes to human life, and young people in particular, I'm sorry Cindi, I hope I'm never that empty.
PEACE, LOVE and HARMONY
OCKLAWAHA
not even close to "battle hardened", again, life is about choices and i choose not to care about people trying to suck the life out of me because of their poor choices.
don't feel sorry for me, since you don't know me from adam's porch cat, you have no idea if i am empty or not and i am actually a huge bleeding heart for lost puppies so spare the psycho babble.
If someone feels that hookers are okay, then why not extend the invitation for them to come work outside of your home, then everyone would be happy. You'd have the hookers under your compassionate care, Springfield would be rid of that problem and the hookers would be where they're wanted....because they're not welcomed here.
Personally, I'm all about compassion for the whales, lost puppies, rain forests, as they didn't make the choice to be mistreated....hookers and such made a conscience choice...major difference.
Springfielder..........they would go broke infront of my house! Just so far off of the beaten path, the neighborhood is trying to discourage transit though here but I do understand the problem! I would not want that kind of traffic or persons for hourly hire in my world either.................stephendare/cindi not sure I can help out or how, but if you think I can let me know! I have somethings I am working on but would try and make the time to help out!
Just really loved the john in the mini van with the two baby seats in the back- nice one. The problem is everyone who tries to address this pretty much does so on their own, and not only are they fighting to get the hookers out they also practically fight with JSO who harrasses the homeowners more than the hookers. Apparently in Hampsterdam it is OK for hookers and dealers to be out, but not actual homeowners-something about after 1AM the neighborhood is not ours anymore. Believe me JSO enforces that switch over....
Well if JSO knows about the problem and "enforces a switch over" I know something is wrong with this picture! You don't just hit a switch and home owners are off the street and the night crawlers are up to bat in civilized worlds............homeowners paid to be there! Families have a right to their neighborhood and that should not be limited to just daylight hours from dawn to dusk...........who the hell wants to live in a fortress? This is not right by any stretch of the imagination and needs to be corrected.............question is how?
Note: I was lumping all officers into that and should not have, there are some really great ones out there, and on the nights they worked it was great, the problem is the next night shift change.
we can't scream what uptowngirl just said loud enough. and in case you loose your watch, a good rule of thumb as to what time the streets are turned over to the "underworld" is to just watch for the sprinklers up and down 8th street. when they come on, the streets go ugly. and like she said, we do have some of the most awesome officers that jso has working our zone - we also have some of the less stellar.
Before anyone becomes concerned that transgenders are being singled out, that isn't the case. None of the female, male or transgender hookers are welcome. We are equal opportunity haters in that regard. I also agree that it should all be legalized, taxed, zoned and health-coded. But we live in the bible belt so I expect the second coming of Christ before I do legalization.
If anyone knows anyone that uses the 'ladies of the nite' over here, BE WARNED, there is at least one known HIV+ transgender VERY actively working this area.
I have no print capability big guy.............but did note that the SPAR site had a business corridor map that might be useable. Tonight is out for me, grandkids are here tonight and tomorrow night, but during the coming week I might be able!
(http://www.sprwatch.org/HamsterdamMap.jpg)
the red area are the rough boundaries of Hamsterdam. The corners in green are common pickup / waiting spots for hookers.
Before everybody is getting too excited: It has been very quiet this weekend. Maybe it is the weather, or maybe more JSO attention to the area this weekend. Anybody in a white SUV who cruised the area last night around midnight? At first I thought it was a John, but the SUV didn't follow the usual routes and stopped longer at the corners then the Johns usually do.
I talked with a JSO officer that was driving the allies today. She stated they have been doing it all weekend. There was also some undercover JSO in a hoopty around the neighborhood today
Times: it usually starts around 11pm. The peak is 1-3am. Fridays are usually the busiest day followed by Saturdays. There is activity most days of the week.
Edit: I am still not sure if a guided tour / larger turnout is a good idea.
Ha, can I bring the benz and a fur coat and talk like kevin federline?
Anybody got a gold cane I can borrow? I need a puple hat too...gotta get into charachter and all...
I'll see what we have at the thrift store... ;D